Press Release The new generation of engines from Mercedes-Benz

[chonkoa]

Why the double posting of lately, I am slowly losing it.

 

[Merc1]

A C300 and E300 with 272hp will be great. More power than the E350 had with the old 3.5L, 268hp V6 back in 2010.

Now just wait until AMG gets a hold of these engines, especially the I6. That E55 with 490hp is the car I would want.

M

 

[Rolf]

What is the big deal about the power? BMW already has similarly power rates for its I6. Same for Audi V6 and Porsche new V6.

It might be for the lower powered non-AMG version of this new engine as they are comparing it to the E400 with 333PS instead of the E43, so potentially an AMG version with more power could be launched in future to replace the E43, which has even less power of 401PS than this new I6. I think a future version with at least 476PS (350kW) is possible.

 

[Serpens]

Wouldn't have thought MB would return to the legendary Straight-6 layout, but its happening..

can anyone point out any advantages over the modern V6, refinement is a given, but what about performance, efficiency, manufacturing.?

Only configuration better than an inline configuration is the flat configuration aka boxer configuration.
1. Naturally balanced shaft.
2. Less parasitic losses related to inertia.
3. Less piston frictional losses.
4. Better fuel economy

From a manufacturing perspective, this is great because it allows I3's, I4's, and the I6's to all share parts and simplify the manufacturing process.

 

[dtd]

From a manufacturing perspective, this is great because it allows I3's, I4's, and the I6's to all share parts and simplify the manufacturing process.

When will we see the new 272hp I4 in the C? 2018MY ?
dtd

 

[Centurion]

A C300 and E300 with 272hp will be great. More power than the E350 had with the old 3.5L, 268hp V6 back in 2010.

Now just wait until AMG gets a hold of these engines, especially the I6. That E55 with 490hp is the car I would want.

M

Good point. This is only the start. Hybrid AMG models will be insane.

No word about the V12s yet

 

[HUTSUTAo]

272HP with a twin-scroll turbo and 14hp of electric boost to kill the turbo lag.

But guys, please keep in mind. The new I6 gasoline engine doesn't have 404 or 408 hp. They just said that it will have more power than the outgoing M278 V8 4,7 liter biturbo. The final performance figures of the diesel and gasoline engines will be released later on, to make sure that other companies don't know about the figures yet.

Can I clarify if Mercedes meant that all the new i6 application will have at least 408hp ?

 

[Rolf]

Can I clarify if Mercedes meant that all the new i6 application will have at least 408hp ?

They say it will have more than 408hp but not given confirmed figures yet.

 

[kingjr9000]

Honestly, i don't get whats so big about these new engines and what they mean for the future. Can someone explain it to me?

 

[Centurion]

What warranty to we reckon Mercedes will give on the ISG? 5 years/100,000 miles?

It better be long because nothing about it will be serviceable by the owner or even and independent garage.

Honestly, i don't get whats so big about these new engines and what they mean for the future. Can someone explain it to me?

These engines are very significant not just for Mercedes but the auto industry as a whole.

I am still absorbing all there is to know about them but the below are what I consider the most significant developments!


Particle filters & catalyst converter near engine:

+LOW EMISSIONS
+LOWER TAXES
+NO CONGESTION CHARGE IN SOME CITIES

-Typically only diesel have particle filters. By putting filters in petrol engine and moving the catalyst converter to the engine, the emissions will be unusually low.

ISG(Integrated Starter-Alternator)
+INSTANT TORQUE
+NO TURBO LAG
+SILENT AND SUPER SMOOTH STARTS AND GETAWAYS.
+ENGINE OFF WHILE COASTING DOWN HILL

-This is integrsted into the engine like a flywheel and replaces the starter motor and alternator.

-Producing 15hp/220Nm it also gives the car hybrid capabilities by filling in gaps in the power band while waiting for the electric turbo chargers to spool up.

-The extra torque from the ISG almost negates the need for a diesel engines in heavy cars. Consider this a BIG step towards killing diesels!

 

[Giannis]

What warranty to we reckon Mercedes will give on the ISG? 5 years/100,000 miles?

It better be long because nothing about it will be serviceable by the owner or even and independent garage.

A typical alternator last about 300.000 km and the same goes for a typical started motor.

Both are quite easy to service, disassemble and replace anything that requires replacement.

I doubt that would be the case with the ISG.

 

[Centurion]

I doubt that would be the case with the ISG.

Nope.

It doesn't take much for insurance companies to write cars off. If after 5 years the ISG cost a third or half the value of a car to be replaced then the car might be written off prematurely and is therefore not as environmentally friendly or sustainable as a non-hybrid car. Just as an FYI, 75% of all Porsche cars ever made are still on the road.

Given that the E-Class is a taxi favorite that is drive past 100,000 miles, the warranty or repairability of the ISG will be very important.

 

[Rolf]

Video I found on Mercedes Passion:

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[Rolf]

Honestly, i don't get whats so big about these new engines and what they mean for the future. Can someone explain it to me?

These engines are state of the art in that they use more electrification for different components (new inline 6 doesnt have belts for aircon, water pump, they all electric now and also has mild hybridization with intergrated starter/generator with brakaing regeneration in place of alternator and seperate starter motor. There is also a 48V system that is also used to power an electric compressor similar to Audi V8 diesel engine.

 

[BMW3GT]

Can I clarify if Mercedes meant that all the new i6 application will have at least 408hp ?

Nope. The new E400 should make around 360 to 370hp (probably a classy twin-turbo setup, rather than E-Turbo + Turbo). The E500 will kick in with around 435hp and will use the recently shown setup with the E-Turbo. The E55 is another thing, because it's AMG tuned.

As @Centurion has already mentioned. The new M256 makes Diesel-engines almost obsolete.
The ISG makes around 20hp and 220NM of torque (EU-spec). I assume that the M256 could have around 600NM. The ISG is active from 0 - 2500 rpm (or maybe more, because MB will tell us later) The ISG is also active when you do a kick-down or accelerate a bit harder. That is the so-called "boost-fuction". In a nutshell - the car could produce 820NM of torque while accelerating.

 

[mercpassion]

So all in all the emphasis is on electrification, how rapidly the good old days of proper Mechanical innovation is dissappearing...

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Any idea how big is the lifespan of that filter, and how complicated is it's replacement?

http://www.motortrend.com/news/500-club-mercedes-benz-expands-its-new-500cccylinder-engine-family/

500 CLUB: MERCEDES-BENZ EXPANDS ITS NEW 500CC/CYLINDER ENGINE FAMILY
Frank Markus WordsOctober 28, 2016

The Mercedes turbodiesel straight-six returns


Thanks again, China! The “billions served” market taxes engines on a per-liter basis in half-liter increments, so manufacturers mapping out new engine families are heavily incentivized to bore and stroke their cylinders so as to come in a whisker under 500cc per hole, then add up however many of them are needed to hit the desired performance (and tax) target. Then voila! Instant engine family sharing bore, stroke, and usually cylinder-bore spacing.


What’s more, all manufacturers seem to be coming to the same efficiency-optimized, computer-analyzed realization that this ideal cylinder wants to be slightly under-square (bore smaller than stroke), with a bore/stroke “under-squareness” ratio somewhere in the 0.867-0.902 range. To wit: BMW (82.0/94.6), Volvo (82.0/93.2), VW (82.5/92.8), and now Mercedes (83.0/92.0-92.4). For a given displacement, a narrower bore and longer stroke results in shorter flame-travel distance for more complete combustion, it reduces heat lost to the water jacket, and it enables closer bore spacing, allowing a trade of precious engine length for less precious block height. Finally, designing one ideal cylinder and using it in multiple engines drastically reduces engineering expenses and permits proliferation of a single injector, spark plug and location, set of valves, etc.

Mercedes’ new combustion chamber first appeared in AMG’s potent M178 4.0-liter biturbo V-8 in the GT S (and in its wet-sump cousin M177 in the C63), then made its inline-engine debut in February 2016 with the OM654 2.0-liter turbodiesel in Europe. Now the roll-out continues in 2017 with four new S-Class engines: the OM656 twin-turbodiesel I-6, the M264 turbocharged gasoline I-4, the M256 twin-turbo gas I-6, and the M176 twin-turbo gas V-8. At least initially in the S-Class, we’ll only get the last two, but all the gas engines are interesting because they will each feature exhaust aftertreatment systems that trap particulate matter, and both inline gas engines are of particular interest because they illustrate two different 48-volt approaches toward a stated goal of achieving at least partial electrification of the entire Mercedes-Benz range.


M264 Turbocharged 2.0-liter I-4
In the case of this small engine towing around a big car, the mild-hybridization is a means of reusing energy that would otherwise be lost to braking and deceleration to eliminate the sense of turbo lag. This allows the single twin-scroll turbo to be slightly larger and more efficient than would be acceptable without a14-hp boost of electricity that can be applied even up to 2,500 rpm. In this case that e-boost comes courtesy of a belt-alternator-starter (BAS) device. It looks just like a normal alternator, except with a hefty spring-loaded tensioner that keeps the belt tightly wrapped around more than two-thirds of the pulley so that it never slips when the motor is regenerating or delivering power from the small lithium-ion 48-volt battery. On this application, the 48-volt architecture also powers an on-demand electric water pump. A separate 12-volt lead-acid battery serves the rest of the car’s electrical needs and gets charged via a DC-DC converter. The more powerful BAS motor is able to restart the engine extremely quickly, which means it can be shut off more often, and a new iECO system will even shut off the engine at low speeds (below 12 mph) when a stop is anticipated.


M256 Twin-Turbo 3.0-liter I-6
The Mercedes faithful will surely cheer the return of this iconic and inherently smooth engine layout to the brand. Packaging the longer block is largely enabled by its 48-volt electrification. By replacing the alternator with an integrated starter/generator (ISG) packaged between the engine and transmission and then using 48-volt motors to directly power the A/C compressor and water pump, Mercedes has freed up all the space usually consumed by the accessory belt drive on the front of the engine. This shrinks the overall length of the fully dressed engine to nearly that of a typical four-cylinder with belt-driven accessories. One more important device also takes advantage of the 48-volt power—an electric turbocharger. So when you suddenly floor the accelerator, the powertrain controller instantly signals for the electric turbo to spool up. It takes 0.3 second to reach 70,000 rpm, during which time the ISG fills in with its 20 hp and 162 lb-ft or torque. Shortly after the e-turbo has spooled up, the larger twin-scroll exhaust-driven turbo is ready to provide the boost that will carry the engine to redline. Meanwhile, all the driver has felt is seamless acceleration. It’s only a matter of time before power-sucking comfort/convenience items like window defrosters, seat heaters, and the like tap into this onboard 48-volt power grid.

Output will be rated “at least” 408 hp and 369 lb-ft in the W222 series S450, which is not too far off the old V-8’s output while fuel consumption drops by around 15 percent relative to the former V-6 in S320 models sold elsewhere. To minimize all other emissions, the main catalyst bolts right to the turbo, lighting off in 20 seconds or less. The only aftertreatment device packaged beneath the car is the particle filter.

Mercedes was first to market with a diesel particle filter in the CARB-certified 1985 S-Class, and now it’s pioneering the gas particle trap to burn off the particulates formed in modern direct-injected engines. Instead of the silicon carbide material used in diesel traps, Mercedes uses cordierite, a magnesium iron aluminum cyclosilicate material that is more tolerant of the far greater temperatures reached in a gas-engine exhaust system. The trap gets regenerated (burning the particles off) whenever there’s excess oxygen in the exhaust stream, which typically happens every time you lift off the throttle and coast, so it’s maintenance-free for life. The backpressure added by these filters is said to be just 1.7 to 1.9 psi.

M176 Twin-Turbo 4.0-liter V-8
How closely related is this luxury V-8 to the fire-breather in a C63? The block, heads, exhaust plumbing, and turbos are virtually identical. Even the 17-psi boost pressure is the same, although a far less restrictive air-cleaner/intake system improves breathing on the AMGs. The turbos are also heat-wrapped so as not to melt the plastic engine cover on an S-Class (the AMGs get a metal cover). The bigger news is the fitment of Camtronic valve timing with cylinder deactivation for improved fuel efficiency. All three of the new gas engines get Camtronic cams that can vary intake and exhaust timing over a 40-degree range, but in the V-8s the cam lobes are splined to their shafts in such a way as to enable them to slide fore and aft exposing a zero-lift lobe when shutting down cylinders two, three, five, and eight (that’s the middle two on one bank and the front and rear two on the other). This only happens when operating in comfort or economy modes under light loads at engine speeds of between 900 and 3,250 rpm. This arrangement allows the full exhaust system to remain hot (the turbos even produce some boost in this mode). One of the instrument cluster menus will tell you which mode the engine is operating in, as we’re assured the switchover is all but imperceptible. This is in part thanks to a pendulum mass damper on the flywheel that helps counteract both the fourth-order vibrations in eight-cylinder mode and the second-order vibrations in four-cylinder mode.

Friction-reduction efforts include honing the cylinder bores in a jig that simulates full cylinder-head clamping force to improve cylinder-bore roundness and thereby reduce piston ring tension. This is done after they receive the Nanoslide iron-carbon-alloy twin-arc-sprayed cylinder lining treatment that is said to reduce piston/cylinder friction by 50 percent (this technique has been in use at Mercedes for three years and is employed on the other new engines detailed above).

This engine does not get any 48-volt electrification, but its alternator and A/C compressor are driven by reduced-friction four-groove belts while the water pump is driven by the cam chain drive. It does get a pair of exhaust particle filters mounted under the floor—another differentiator with the AMG M177 and M178 engines. Rated output in the forthcoming S560 (not an AMG model) is 476 hp and 516 lb-ft. That subdivides the base and S level horsepower ratings of the C63 and matches the S-level torque! Fuel consumption is said to improve by 12 percent relative to the S550’s twin-turbo 4.7-liter V-8.

We very much look forward to welcoming these new engines to the family with a test drive in the months to come.

(Emphasis in bold are mine)

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Very impressive indeed and finally MB is not lacking behind BMW in engine technology (I6, valvetronic,Turbos in the V of the 8 cylinder). Can somebody explain why the electrical AC compressor is mounted in front of the engine. It could be anywhere else in he car. Putting it behind the front axle would improve the weight distribution.

 

[Centurion]

Can somebody explain why the electrical AC compressor is mounted in front of the engine. It could be anywhere else in he car. Putting it behind the front axle would improve the weight distribution.

AC compressors fail. Putting them in a place where they are accessible by removing the front bumper.

This is not Audi we are talking about. They would be like "Our space age multi-motor dual clutch AC compressor is so perfectly engineered that it will never need repairing or replacing. Therefore we are going to integrate it into the flywheel".

Guess what happens when it needs replacing? You pay £3,000 for a replacement part and labour which involves removing the engine.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

AC compressors fail. Putting them in a place where they are accessible by removing the front bumper.

This is not Audi we are talking about. They would be like "Our space age multi-motor dual clutch AC compressor is so perfectly engineered that it will never need repairing or replacing. Therefore we are going to integrate it into the flywheel".

Guess what happens when it needs replacing? You pay £3,000 for a replacement part and labour which involves removing the engine.

Electrical blower also fails, but is mounted inside the dash. If they have to mount all the parts that fail in front of the engine than the car would become quite nose heavy. Since the compressor doesn't have any mechanical connection to the engine it could be positioned in the dash, or in the trunk, or even under the car where would be easy to repair or dismantle it. And removing the bumper is not an easy task anymore