M3/M4 Official: BMW M3 E92 Concept

[Mr. M]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely having less power would increase the fuel economy, meaning that when you're just driving around town and going to the shops, you still have a fairly powerful car, which would be more economical, but when your smoking that porsche, press the button for the increased power!

Also having less power would make it easier not to go at silly speeds and get your licence taken away from you!

You took the words out of my mouth...

 

[martinbo]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Y'know, I'm quite into the idea of a car that I can customise settings to suite my mood, passengers and driving style. Makes life more interesting - you get less frustrated because you're able to tailor the driving experience according to your immediate requirements...

Driving on a long trip, chasing better economy - who needs all those horses for 135 km/h? P400 mode then...

Horns come out and you want the maximum experience - I guess I'll be depressing that little M-Sport button...

 

[chonkoa]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely having less power would increase the fuel economy, meaning that when you're just driving around town and going to the shops, you still have a fairly powerful car, which would be more economical, but when your smoking that porsche, press the button for the increased power!

Also having less power would make it easier not to go at silly speeds and get your licence taken away from you!

It is not a question of Less or More Power as a function of fuel economy.
The underlying driver is the Torque, and then the Horsepower.
The Torque is very important because it is what gets the car moving. For you to initiate motion, you need Torque. How much Torque you need to move the car is a function of the inertia of the car. The Torque is the most fundamental output of the engine. It is directly related to the cylinder bore, the fuel type(diesel/petrol + air). That is one of the reasons why diesel engines have better fuel economy than petrol engines.
Torque also changes with RPM.

Horsepower in its most basic nature is the efficiency of the engine at a given torque. It is the summation of several variables amongst which are:
1. How efficient the air intake is.
2. How efficiently the exhaust gas is expelled from the piston.
3. How quickly and freely the pistons travel within a given stroke.

So in summary, Torque is derived from raw combustion, whereas Horsepower is state of refinement of the combustion process.

No Torque= No fuel economy.
Just my two cents.

 

[wltsm]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Thanks for your detailed reply, obviously someone who knows what they're talking about!

 

[Zonda]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Soundclip:
http://www.autoblog.nl/archive/2007/03/07/autoblog-video-bmw-m3

 

[warot]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

It is not a question of Less or More Power as a function of fuel economy.
The underlying driver is the Torque, and then the Horsepower.
The Torque is very important because it is what gets the car moving. For you to initiate motion, you need Torque. How much Torque you need to move the car is a function of the inertia of the car. The Torque is the most fundamental output of the engine. It is directly related to the cylinder bore, the fuel type(diesel/petrol + air). That is one of the reasons why diesel engines have better fuel economy than petrol engines.
Torque also changes with RPM.

Horsepower in its most basic nature is the efficiency of the engine at a given torque. It is the summation of several variables amongst which are:
1. How efficient the air intake is.
2. How efficiently the exhaust gas is expelled from the piston.
3. How quickly and freely the pistons travel within a given stroke.

So in summary, Torque is derived from raw combustion, whereas Horsepower is state of refinement of the combustion process.

No Torque= No fuel economy.
Just my two cents.

Good question. I don't even think the torque goes down in the P400 and P500 setting. I thought only the hp was affected. And it's not like at P400, the car becomes a eco car, you still have more power than most cars out there.

 

[swamp2]

J_M is right. I know someone with a E63 M6, and he hardly ever takes it out of P400

What a TOTAL waste.

 

[wmb]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

There is a production car back stage along with a 1er coupe and Cabrio...

Who gets to see these? Important customers? Dealers?

And why would BMW show a hybrid of a CSL & a regular production M3. Are you sure we did not just see the CSL M3 on the show floor, with the production model being stashed behind the scenes?

I think the video of the production car backing up, raises some questions as to BMW not being sure which car to debut in Geneva... Which makes it interesting to speculate why BMW decided not to show the production car...

 

[Mr Robert]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Who gets to see these? Important customers? Dealers?

And why would BMW show a hybrid of a CSL & a regular production M3. Are you sure we did not just see the CSL M3 on the show floor, with the production model being stashed behind the scenes?

I think the video of the production car backing up, raises some questions as to BMW not being sure which car to debut in Geneva... Which makes it interesting to speculate why BMW decided not to show the production car...

Well, I could think of several reasons why BMW would have a production car behind the curtains...

1. They intend to show it to us, there is after all a whole week left.

2. We are talking about the car, and there you have your free advertising

3. First show the CSL-ish concept and then the regular production M3 makes perfect sense to me.

 

[SCOTT27]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Who gets to see these? Important customers? Dealers?

BMW distributors for the country. And Swiss based BMW investors...

And why would BMW show a hybrid of a CSL & a regular production M3. Are you sure we did not just see the CSL M3 on the show floor, with the production model being stashed behind the scenes?

As I said their are elements shown here that do not feature on the production car for example the concept car does not share the CSL carbon fibre bootlid which with an integrated spoiler confines the licence plate to the rear bumper. And the CSL gets further aerodynamic aid at the front of the car than the production M3 Coupe. A pre-production prototype M3 is at Geneva along with two other key models and an X5 Individual . MINI had brought a Clubman or two along. One was for evalution and presentation and another which will be a real-life teaser of the MINI Clubman on the streets of Geneva.

I think the video of the production car backing up, raises some questions as to BMW not being sure which car to debut in Geneva... Which makes it interesting to speculate why BMW decided not to show the production car...

I was still in my hotel at this point but. To me it looks like They were probably still prepping the Concept Car for it's introduction but used the wrapped production car for a rehersal. I know that both M3's did not arrive in Geneva until the afternoon the previous day. So they would have little time to do a run through as the car was shown to Swiss representitives in a studio in Geneva the night before the show.

@ Geneva 2004 we had two M5's available one for Herr Stuck to drive onto the stage as Herr Priaulx did with the M3 and one which was on display on a plinth. Again the drivable one was kept behind closed doors as was two examples of the about-to-be announced BMW 1er. And a example of the upcoming E90.

We did not debut the production car for three reasons A : The car is still in the final stages of development and B: The timeframe which we have allocated from Concept car to international launch fits in well with our requirements. And C: Our Product roadmap called for updates to two key European models the 5er and 1er so these had priority over everything else. The Frankfurt motor show is the most important motor show of 2007 and the M3 deserves a high profile launch.

 

[wltsm]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Thanks for the insight scott27, I wonder how hard it would be though it get behind the scenes, it would be very bad for BMW, if someone with a camera get back there!

 

[south]

Scott, does the gearshift lever have any chance to be featured in the production M3?

Best regards, south

 

[Zafiro]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Thanks for the insight scott27, I wonder how hard it would be though it get behind the scenes, it would be very bad for BMW, if someone with a camera get back there!

when I was in Geneve last year I asked a girl from the BMW staff about a room behind stage with models not for the public. She denied and said she doesnt know about a "secret room". What big fat liar

 

[Zafiro]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

As I said their are elements shown here that do not feature on the production car for example the concept car does not share the CSL carbon fibre bootlid which with an integrated spoiler confines the licence plate to the rear bumper. And the CSL gets further aerodynamic aid at the front of the car than the production M3 Coupe.

so its not decided yet if the standard M3 is getting 426hp or not?
Is it a possibility that the standard M3 is getting more than 426hp?

 

[SCOTT27]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

when I was in Geneve last year I asked a girl from the BMW staff about a room behind stage with models not for the public. She denied and said she doesnt know about a "secret room". What big fat liar

The people that you see wear "BMW Group" badges are from Munich and work for BMW and are most likely to be around on the Press days.
Otherwords it is just agencies that provide stand workers.
Insome cases they wont know...

 

[EnI]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

when I was in Geneve last year I asked a girl from the BMW staff about a room behind stage with models not for the public. She denied and said she doesnt know about a "secret room". What big fat liar

There is always a BMW VIP lounge at big Auto Shows. Every significant car maker has it. Where do you think all interesting (business) talks are held? Where VIP customers / investors / BMW employees are treated?

On some shows such VIP lounge is right beside main BMW stage, on big shows it's usually separated - in different building.

Where do you think do Herr Reithofer, Herr Ganal, Herr Draeger, Mr Bangle and other BMW senior managers meet with the VIPs?

 

[ILC32]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

so its not decided yet if the standard M3 is getting 426hp or not?
Is it a possibility that the standard M3 is getting more than 426hp?

There's always hope. The C63 will have 460+! The M need not equal it given its other expected dynamic qualities, but 10% more hp for the Merc is too much of a gap!

 

[Nikos120i]

Re: Officiall: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Here's how the M3 sounds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNpUNNaPRb8

It's a video from Geneva 2007...probably before the show started...

 

[arthurz]

Re: Officiell: BMW M3 E92 Concept

Is it a complete love feast, or is their atleast 1 soul that honestly expected a little more out of BMW?

One thing I would prefer is to see the pipes integrated into the bumper, the rear looks clumsy with the exhaust hanging down there. I don't immediately see the logic of ducting that's going on down there.

 

[swamp2]

Re: Officiell: BMW M3 E92 Concept

the rear looks clumsy with the exhaust hanging down there. I don't immediately see the logic of ducting that's going on down there.

The meshed duct is for the output of the venturi tunnel that routes cooling air across the rear differential (just like the M5). I have also heard that the entire underbody is covered which would help this effect and also provide a improved drag coefficient.