C-Class (W206) [Hot!] 2022 Mercedes-AMG C63S (W206)

[klier]

No V8 coming according to Roken mr AMG

I don’t believe it at all. When a V8 fits the W204, the W206 could house a V12.

Thoughts?

 

[Fastpaddy]

Hm. From my POV it isn't completely comparable. The 2,5l turbo B4 in the 718 did sound really bad. Ok. But from performance perspective it was a win. I even think, that in some areas the performance of the 2,5 B4 718 is even better than the 4.0 NA GTS! And Porsche did not replace the Cayman S (B4 turbo). They added another option with the GTS.
So from Porsche their was NO admit, that the turbo B4 was a complete failure. No need as it wasn't.
If AMG would replace the I4 with a bigger engine in the C63 ... it would be nothing than a full on admit, that the current C63S simply is a desaster! On the one hand this needs balls from AMG side and I would applaud them ... on the other hand ... what do you tell your customers, who bought that shite?

You make a good point.

It was only in america that many buyers flat out refused to even consided a 4 cylinder porsche. In europe many people didnt care.

So in effect it was a masterstoke, because those who wanted the car but without a vw hatchback style engine they would have to pay a premium in the GTS.

Personally i wish it would have got the ttrs 5 cylinder instead of the 4.

 

[Fastpaddy]

No V8 coming according to Roken mr AMG

I don’t believe it at all. When a V8 fits the W204, the W206 could house a V12.

Thoughts?

Yeah i don’t believe the it doest fit narrative either.

People have put the 5.0 v10 into bmw 1 series and e30 90’s 3 series. I’m sure the engineers could make it work in a bug car like the w206

 

[Matski]

People have put the 5.0 v10 into bmw 1 series and e30 90’s 3 series.

Racing Dynamics put the V12 in the E36 compact as the K55...

... but engines were simpler back then, in the Bimmers they'd all fit something with a 6 cylinder long bank from the factory, and the V's were easier to accommodate at that time because it was naturally aspirated, it didn't require lots of pipework and shielding for Turbos.

The E90, and therefore by extension the E8x 1-er were designed from the outset to accommodate a 90° V engine 4 cylinders long, and inline engines 6 cylinders long... perhaps not easy, but already designed for the length and the width.

If the C63 wasn't intended to take something bigger, longer or wider, and they have to start messing around with the front chassis, engine supports, turrets and bulkhead, I can see them not bothering.

 

[dalab]

Yeah i don’t believe the it doest fit narrative either.

People have put the 5.0 v10 into bmw 1 series and e30 90’s 3 series. I’m sure the engineers could make it work in a bug car like the w206

Well, there's the fact that Mercedes turned to Porsche to get the V8 fitted to the W124, they did, but there must be a pretty significant engineering cost associated with doing it "right" if the car wasn't originally intended for that.

The specific examples you mention (5.0 v10 into bmw 1 series and e30 90's 3 series), were for a single artesanal car and generally or always resulting in undriveable cars.

 

[klier]

Racing Dynamics put the V12 in the E36 compact as the K55...

The compact part was in the rear though

And the compact obviously came with the I6. A V8 is probably not much bigger.

 

[Matski]

The compact part was in the rear though

And the compact obviously came with the I6. A V8 is probably not much bigger.

Interestingly, when Alpina wanted to make a V8 E36, BMW said it couldn't be done, at least not without modifying production bodies. Alpina made it fit but had to make many alterations to the body, and the oil system of the engine.

As I say, though - the K55 was a V12, as was BMW's V12 Z3 prototype... lots of engine for a small car!

Sorry for the off-topic

 

[manuelf]

Reagarding the AMG W206 ... I don't believe, that they are really going to replace the M139 4 cylinder with a V8 during its lifetime ... mainly for the reasons I named in my previous post.
I rather think, that they fix the problem, that the C63S is running out of juice so quickly, because of its minimal battery capacity ... leaving it back in the dust already at a mere 0-200 sprint compared with its direct competition (0-250 even worse).
So I expect a bump for the battery from 6,x kwh to 10,x kwh and making it more stable/durable when sucking high currents for extended timespans. This will keep the Philiposophie of the car and won't lead to insane explosion of costs, but at the same time will adress the most obvious flaws ...

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Interestingly, when Alpina wanted to make a V8 E36, BMW said it couldn't be done, at least not without modifying production bodies. Alpina made it fit but had to make many alterations to the body, and the oil system of the engine.

As I say, though - the K55 was a V12, as was BMW's V12 Z3 prototype... lots of engine for a small car!

Sorry for the off-topic

For the E36 V8 Alpina used the brake booster from the E31 mounted in the trunk, due to lack of space.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

6,x kwh to 10,x kwh

Another 100 kg +

 

[manuelf]

Another 100 kg +

According to Mercedes the 6,1 kwh battery weighs 89kg.
So adding 70% more capacity ... we would be in the ballpark of an addition of approx. 60kg. What weight addition would we see, when switching from I4 to V8 ... talking into account bigger/stronger transmission and added cooling?

 

[Gor134]

According to Mercedes the 6,1 kwh battery weighs 89kg.
So adding 70% more capacity ... we would be in the ballpark of an addition of approx. 60kg. What weight addition would we see, when switching from I4 to V8 ... talking into account bigger/stronger transmission and added cooling?

Who says the same e performance tech would be used on a V8 C63?

Surely Mercedes would want it to be around the 600hp mark, not around 800 like the S63e/GT63e.

 

[manuelf]

Who says the same e performance tech would be used on a V8 C63?

Surely Mercedes would want it to be around the 600hp mark, not around 800 like the S63e/GT63e.

Nobody says ... it is all just speculation!
But to me it seems even more unlikely, that AMG changes the whole vehicle concept 180 degree! So not only replacing the I4 with a bigger engine, but to replace the whole drivetrain architecture in a facelift??? That would be insane!

 

[Tourbillon]

Mercedes Won't Bring Back The V8 For AMG C63, E63 After All: Report

Auto Motor und Sport cites an AMG insider saying the V8 engine won't return in the C63 and E63, claiming the original report is "pure nonsense."

www.motor1.com

Mercedes Won't Bring Back The V8 For AMG C63, E63 After All: Report!

Can't say that we're surprised!

As we're sure you've heard by now, a juicy report from Car and Driver claimed Mercedes has already decided to bring back the V8 engine for the C63 and E63 as early as 2026. We reached out to the German luxury brand but it was a futile effort on our part as the company refused to comment on future products. However, a new report from Auto Motor und Sport indicates the eight-cylinder engine won't be returning after all.

According to an "employee familiar with product development," the V8 will not return in the C63 and E63, calling the original report as "pure nonsense." Consequently, the flagship C-Class is expected to retain the plug-in hybrid four-cylinder setup while the range-topping E-Class will also be bitten by the downsizing bug. The jury is still out on whether the next E63 will have an inline-six or will be demoted to a four-pot, although Autocar claims it'll have a six-cylinder mill.

As much as enthusiasts would love to see the V8 make a triumphant return, the chances of happening are slim, at least in countries from the European Union. Increasingly stringent emissions regulations are making it harder and harder for automakers to sell cars with large-displacement engines. With the Euro 7 standard programmed to come into effect in 2025, the future of big ICEs looks grim.

Another nail in the large combustion engine's coffin is represented by the steep taxes making performance vehicles less and less attainable. It would've been considerably easier for AMG, BMW M, and Audi Sport to keep their six- and eight-cylinder engines without resorting to electrification and downsizing had it not been for tougher legislation.

People have been quick to criticize automakers for deleting cylinders and adding hybridization but this is basically the only way to keep performance cars alive going forward. Yes, a four-cylinder AMG C63 is a tough sell, but it's still better than no AMG C63… BMW M has already announced all next-generation models will be electrified to some extent, and Audi Sport won't be able to sell pure gasoline RS cars for much longer either.

Selling gas-only sports cars outside of the EU where there are less stringent emissions regulations doesn't seem feasible seeing as how Europe is a huge market for Mercedes and its main rivals. It would require higher development costs and the market would be considerably smaller after taking Euro countries out of the equation."

Sorry boys, apparently atleast!

 

[dalab]

As we're sure you've heard by now, a juicy report from Car and Driver claimed Mercedes has already decided to bring back the V8 engine for the C63 and E63 as early as 2026. We reached out to the German luxury brand but it was a futile effort on our part as the company refused to comment on future products. However, a new report from Auto Motor und Sport indicates the eight-cylinder engine won't be returning after all.

According to an "employee familiar with product development," the V8 will not return in the C63 and E63, calling the original report as "pure nonsense." Consequently, the flagship C-Class is expected to retain the plug-in hybrid four-cylinder setup while the range-topping E-Class will also be bitten by the downsizing bug. The jury is still out on whether the next E63 will have an inline-six or will be demoted to a four-pot, although Autocar claims it'll have a six-cylinder mill.

As much as enthusiasts would love to see the V8 make a triumphant return, the chances of happening are slim, at least in countries from the European Union. Increasingly stringent emissions regulations are making it harder and harder for automakers to sell cars with large-displacement engines. With the Euro 7 standard programmed to come into effect in 2025, the future of big ICEs looks grim.

Another nail in the large combustion engine's coffin is represented by the steep taxes making performance vehicles less and less attainable. It would've been considerably easier for AMG, BMW M, and Audi Sport to keep their six- and eight-cylinder engines without resorting to electrification and downsizing had it not been for tougher legislation.

People have been quick to criticize automakers for deleting cylinders and adding hybridization but this is basically the only way to keep performance cars alive going forward. Yes, a four-cylinder AMG C63 is a tough sell, but it's still better than no AMG C63… BMW M has already announced all next-generation models will be electrified to some extent, and Audi Sport won't be able to sell pure gasoline RS cars for much longer either.

Selling gas-only sports cars outside of the EU where there are less stringent emissions regulations doesn't seem feasible seeing as how Europe is a huge market for Mercedes and its main rivals. It would require higher development costs and the market would be considerably smaller after taking Euro countries out of the equation."

Sorry boys, apparently atleast!

As we say here, "they will take it as a loss"

 

[martinbo]

Let's be realistic. They were never going to ditch all of that R & D and revert to the V8. I never believed the reports for one minute.

 

[Tourbillon]

Let's be realistic. They were never going to ditch all of that R & D and revert to the V8. I never believed the reports for one minute.

If the four cylinder (hybridity or not) is good enough for the Mercedes Benz SL then, well, it is for good enough for anything.

 

[Merc1]

Uh they’re not gonna confirm this now and destroy/tank the 4-cylinder C63 even further before it even goes on sale. I would believe that they’re going to switch back but they will deny it for as long as possible to protect whatever sales they can get with Mighty Mouse. Who would buy this now if they said “yeah the V8 is coming back” in 3 years”?

The tech won’t be lost as it’s still in use on the current V8 4D GT and S63 and new “43” cars.

I’d bet the V8 is coming back. If there is an I6 application then figure out where it fits best. They have a vast lineup.

M

 

[manuelf]

With the Euro 7 standard programmed to come into effect in 2025, the future of big ICEs looks grim

Is this just journalists blabla or are there hard facts?
I'm not an EU emission insider, but what I heard is that EU7 is more a homogenisation effort for emissions of various vehicle classes and ICE fuel types, where gasoline engines in passenger cars won't get drastically more restrictive thresholds than before?
I mean: BMW introduced the S68 seemingly being confident to serve all EU7 needs for the upcoming years!?
So - "how bad" is EU7 really?

 

[Mick Briesgau]

@Merc1 ”Mighty Mouse”!