Vs W212 vs C7 vs F10: the new mid size luxury class fav.

[Mr. Mercedes]

Talking about similarities with old design.





My friend couldn't tell which one is new and which one old.

LOL wow. That's an incredible comparison!

 

[Nenadm87]

Haha, Sunny.. Great comparison
I don't usually post on threads around here except when introducing my cars, but this topic seems interesting and worth of my precious attention (kiddin').

Concerning the exterior, as our friend Sunny previously presented to us, this new A6 could easily be introduced as a facelift. LED still annoys me but I guess Audi wanted to build a new identity through it (BMW have corona lights, Mercedes has a star). I also wonder if customers where "upset" with corona lights when they were introduced for the first time. Maybe somebody else knows more about this?

Also, generally speaking I don't like the new cubical shape of Mercedes interiors, don't know why but every time I see one I wonder how much it would hurt if somebody hits his/her head on its instruments But I guess it's just me I don't think there's some major difference in quality of materials and technology used in building these cars, and therefore I think that at the end of the day the actual DESIGN of product sells. After all, all three cars will take a driver and passengers from point A to point B safe. Now, since I visit this forum every day, I feel free to say that all of you guys are nice and intelligent people and therefore there is no need for me to say that the design and how it is percieved among individuals is highly subjective. Personally, I find both interior and exterior of Audi boring but if there weren't for people who liked it, I guess we wouldn't have Audi cars today.

Moreover, I think that your taste and car preferences are set by what you drive at that very moment. Sometimes (especially in the case of the first car) you tend to exaggerate the design and preferences of your car believing that you (or your parents for that matter) made the best possible choice and that everybody else was stupid for buying other brands' products. When I was driving Audi Allroad, Audi was simply the only car manufacturer in the world. When I had Mercedes ML, the Merc was simply the one and only. Now when I have several Beemers, I would get angry and offended if somebody asked me if I made a mistake by switching to BMW. When X6 was out for the first time, I simply hated it, almost swearing that I will never sit in it, let alone buy it. Now when I own it, I tend to forget my previous opinion and bad words directed to this car. Nothing else than pure vanity..

Next thing, people hold certain sterotypes about other nations, races, and...cars. In my country, Mercedes drivers are considered to be old and/or boring people without "hot" blood. Audi is believed to be bought by wanna-be criminals while BMW (or Beogradsko Mafijasko Wozilo - Belgrade's Mafia Vehicle) is "strictliy" in ownership of customers who are young, crazy and brzi (Serbian expression for trendy and dynamic people). What I'm trying to say is that the individual's preferences and tastes are shaped by numerous factors which are hard to be captured and explained. At the end it all ends up in statements such as: "I simply don't like it", "Dude, Audi interior is of the highest quality, you suck" and similar. I met people who are sure that BMW produce faster cars than others even though they don't even know what kind of engines or even number of horse powers engineers put in it. Of course, Audi has a superior interior and transmission even if they never sat in one.

To finally conclude and finish with this philosophical off-topic monologue of mine, today I love BMW (after all I voted for 5 series), but if tomorrow I buy A6 or E-Class be sure that I will root for some of these two brands. Brand loyalty is overpriced and human nature is weird and unpredictable

Huge respect for forum members and my favourite one - Klier

 

[rollo]

From a looks only perspective, 5er, without question. Performance and driving experience are the most important attributes to most however, appearance is important, but a second tier consideration.

Lets see how the new A6 drives before we crown the winner?

 

[MikeJ]

Since we're voting based on looks only at this point, my vote goes to the A6 with no hesitation whatsoever. In a straight comparison, its simple elegance and clean design make the two competitors look grossly overdesigned. Can't wait to see one on the road.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

The sales manager of the large BMW dealership in my region currently drives an F10 535D, black metallic with terracotta colored leather + dark wood, 20" 312 wheels in light silver. When I first laid my eyes on that car, it stole my breath away. It still does as I often see it on the roads in my area. It remains one of the nicest sedans I have ever laid my eyes on. An M-B W212 could never stir my automotive emotions in that manner.

As I really like what I'm seeing regarding the new C7 A6, I'm looking forward to seeing it in the metal, spec'd similarly to that F10 535D mentioned above. I think only then could it be possible for me to make a verdict.

 

[NarutoRamen]

I personally need to see the A6 in different colors to judge this correctly.

 

[footie]

I made the point earlier about it being difficult for anyone to base a valid opinion since they hadn't seen the A6 in person by clearly had with the other two which is why I feel there is a need to also discuss the technology that is coming in the A6 and how it will compare with the competition.

The S4 with it's MLP platform and weighing more than the competition has whipped their butts, but with the A6 it's lighter than rivals and combines technology that is the same as the RS5 and A7 so if we go by past examples the A6 3.0TFSI should be the pick of the bunch. It's also the one that's bang up to date with the most advance Satnat and connectivity plus uses the best materials, a done deal in my opinion.

 

[martinbo]

BTW, let me guess, you have already seen the A6 in real life. Sat in it too, and tried it already with 17", 18" and 19"

C'mon klier, get with the program. It's not it's

My friend couldn't tell which one is new and which one old.

Hey Sunny, what a post. Picture tells a thousand words eh? Totally enlightening - I had no idea they were that close. First, the clever flicky BM gif thing and now this. Impressive.

~~~

As for me, another difficult choice but ultimately I reckon I would opt of the 530d or 535d. The best diesel engine in the world (in my experience) coupled with oodles of space, lots of luxury and clad in the best looking exterior makes the F10 my choice in this class. That's not to say that I didn't give the magnificent E-Class or the simple elegance of the A6 serious consideration.

 

[Potential]

A6 and 5 Series are the only contenders for me. The E Class is an over-designed, under-executed mess in my opinion. Much prefer the classic and enduring design of the W211. As we are dealing in absolutes here, I'd have put my decision with my money and the only car I'd consider buying this generation is the 5 Series - M Sport 535i.

 

[Sunny]

As for me, another difficult choice but ultimately I reckon I would opt of the 530d or 535d. The best diesel engine in the world (in my experience) coupled with oodles of space, lots of luxury and clad in the best looking exterior makes the F10 my choice in this class. That's not to say that I didn't give the magnificent E-Class or the simple elegance of the A6 serious consideration.

Wait till you hear about the new diesel engine Audi is developing. I been told it is being codeveloped with Porsche and Piech himself is designing it .

Oh and if I haven't mentioned it already 985321 times, please everyone, wait till you drive the car, heck, wait till you buy it, before voting in this otherwise insignificant unscientific internet poll. The fact that my favorite brand is loosing it is giving me some serious constipation.

 

[K-A]

I think my real problem with the Audi is that it has a totally new front, but the rear and sides look the same as the old car. They rear lights are different, but thats about it. The profile is the same. Still though need to see it in person first. Detroit here I come.


M

I like the A6's clean and simple/pure design, but it is indeed the front that ruins its nice balance for me. The car looks timeless from the sides, but when the overly futuristic/alien front comes into play, the front singlehandedly makes the sides look dull and dated. Bad match.

There’s not a BAD one in the lot. All definitive advancements over their predecessors.

I'm a little bias because we have a w212 sitting in the garage, but there’s not a single day when I think, 'man this car is boring or unattractive'. The design and details are forever captivating.

The BMW is undoubtedly very handsome and effortlessly elegant. But when I see it, it doesn't draw me in. When it drives past, it doesn't pull my attention.

I agree. The W212 is the least "boring" of the bunch. Whether someone likes it, or finds it well resolved, doesn't really change that IMO. The F10 is very elegant, and passive, and even as a brand new design, doesn't command much attention, or doesn't force someone to notice its newness on the road. The W212 is still an instantly recognizable "new" design, that forces people to notice it, especially relative to the fact that it is still an E-Class, which by definition, is an understated and stately Sedan that isn't supposed to shout "look at me!". As with any fine Euro car, supremacy comes from the details.

I find the 212 to be very detail oriented in design, which can be more polarizing, either stunning, or messy. Yet, still conservative, kind of a double character.

The A6 looks very nice, but it certainly is taking the place of the cleanest, and most agreeable design out of the 3. The F10 looks pleasant, athletic, classy, and pretty, and the 212 looks confident, complex, staunch, and dynamic. I feel the F10 will have the most enthusiasts-support, while the W212 has the most curb-appeal to the masses. I think the W212 has a look of Luxury, when equipped properly, that gives it an effect of "rolling chariot", just stately in a bit of an evil "I'm better than you" way, whilst still having sporty and slick proportions. The F10, just looks so gorgeously proportioned, comfortable yet sleek and elegant, in a different way that the W212 is.

Keep in mind, the W212 DOES need the AMG Pack to bring out the design properly, which isn't true for the F10. In the States, the AMG Pack is a free option, so our common 212's have a much more dynamic road presence than our common F10's. The M-Pack certainly brings the F10's design out as well, but it's very rare to spot.

Interior wise, I think it comes down to preference. I have a tough time picking which out of the F10 and W212's I like better. But I think M-B has mastered their classic mind-frame of interior, with focus on pleasant comfort, and a vibe of indestructibility. I appreciate the W212's open, and airier vibe, while I appreciate the F10's cozy vibe, and sleek design.

The A6 seems to be the most fashionable inside, which is ironic, and I like it, but find it lacks some warmth (too overdesigned IMO, I'm not feeling that "stretching out" effect so much). I will say, I think (ironically), the INSIDE of the A6 is where the other brands might copy from, as it's the most "revolutionary" of the trio. While the outside is as carefully evolutionary as it gets. I do hate the A6's pop-up screen actually, I think it degrades the whole inside.

All in all, I'm happy that Audi kept the A6 is an option for the puritans who aren't trying to look like "todays trend" (FRONT EXCLUDED). My pick is the W212, but the F10 is right on its heels. If I bought an F10, I'd be saying that same line, just with the F10 playing the part of "my car", and the W212 as "the one that got away".

Haha, Sunny.. Great comparison
I don't usually post on threads around here except when introducing my cars, but this topic seems interesting and worth of my precious attention (kiddin').

Concerning the exterior, as our friend Sunny previously presented to us, this new A6 could easily be introduced as a facelift. LED still annoys me but I guess Audi wanted to build a new identity through it (BMW have corona lights, Mercedes has a star). I also wonder if customers where "upset" with corona lights when they were introduced for the first time. Maybe somebody else knows more about this?

Also, generally speaking I don't like the new cubical shape of Mercedes interiors, don't know why but every time I see one I wonder how much it would hurt if somebody hits his/her head on its instruments But I guess it's just me I don't think there's some major difference in quality of materials and technology used in building these cars, and therefore I think that at the end of the day the actual DESIGN of product sells. After all, all three cars will take a driver and passengers from point A to point B safe. Now, since I visit this forum every day, I feel free to say that all of you guys are nice and intelligent people and therefore there is no need for me to say that the design and how it is percieved among individuals is highly subjective. Personally, I find both interior and exterior of Audi boring but if there weren't for people who liked it, I guess we wouldn't have Audi cars today.

Moreover, I think that your taste and car preferences are set by what you drive at that very moment. Sometimes (especially in the case of the first car) you tend to exaggerate the design and preferences of your car believing that you (or your parents for that matter) made the best possible choice and that everybody else was stupid for buying other brands' products. When I was driving Audi Allroad, Audi was simply the only car manufacturer in the world. When I had Mercedes ML, the Merc was simply the one and only. Now when I have several Beemers, I would get angry and offended if somebody asked me if I made a mistake by switching to BMW. When X6 was out for the first time, I simply hated it, almost swearing that I will never sit in it, let alone buy it. Now when I own it, I tend to forget my previous opinion and bad words directed to this car. Nothing else than pure vanity..

Next thing, people hold certain sterotypes about other nations, races, and...cars. In my country, Mercedes drivers are considered to be old and/or boring people without "hot" blood. Audi is believed to be bought by wanna-be criminals while BMW (or Beogradsko Mafijasko Wozilo - Belgrade's Mafia Vehicle) is "strictliy" in ownership of customers who are young, crazy and brzi (Serbian expression for trendy and dynamic people). What I'm trying to say is that the individual's preferences and tastes are shaped by numerous factors which are hard to be captured and explained. At the end it all ends up in statements such as: "I simply don't like it", "Dude, Audi interior is of the highest quality, you suck" and similar. I met people who are sure that BMW produce faster cars than others even though they don't even know what kind of engines or even number of horse powers engineers put in it. Of course, Audi has a superior interior and transmission even if they never sat in one.

To finally conclude and finish with this philosophical off-topic monologue of mine, today I love BMW (after all I voted for 5 series), but if tomorrow I buy A6 or E-Class be sure that I will root for some of these two brands. Brand loyalty is overpriced and human nature is weird and unpredictable

Huge respect for forum members and my favourite one - Klier

Very well put all around! I despised the W212 when it came out. I was all over Forums detesting it. I owned the W211, and I still love that car, but obviously, politics played a big part in my feelings perhaps. One thing I can never say about the 212, is that it's been boring for me, as I obsessed about it when I "hated" it, and now that "thin line" has been broken. The car was like a celebrity to me when it first came out, so it adds to my ownership experience.

 

[footie]

I like the A6's clean and simple/pure design, but it is indeed the front that ruins its nice balance for me. The car looks timeless from the sides, but when the overly futuristic/alien front comes into play, the front singlehandedly makes the sides look dull and dated. Bad match.



I agree. The W212 is the least "boring" of the bunch. Whether someone likes it, or finds it well resolved, doesn't really change that IMO. The F10 is very elegant, and passive, and even as a brand new design, doesn't command much attention, or doesn't force someone to notice its newness on the road. The W212 is still an instantly recognizable "new" design, that forces people to notice it, especially relative to the fact that it is still an E-Class, which by definition, is an understated and stately Sedan that isn't supposed to shout "look at me!". As with any fine Euro car, supremacy comes from the details.

I find the 212 to be very detail oriented in design, which can be more polarizing, either stunning, or messy. Yet, still conservative, kind of a double character.

The A6 looks very nice, but it certainly is taking the place of the cleanest, and most agreeable design out of the 3. The F10 looks pleasant, athletic, classy, and pretty, and the 212 looks confident, complex, staunch, and dynamic. I feel the F10 will have the most enthusiasts-support, while the W212 has the most curb-appeal to the masses. I think the W212 has a look of Luxury, when equipped properly, that gives it an effect of "rolling chariot", just stately in a bit of an evil "I'm better than you" way, whilst still having sporty and slick proportions. The F10, just looks so gorgeously proportioned, comfortable yet sleek and elegant, in a different way that the W212 is.

Keep in mind, the W212 DOES need the AMG Pack to bring out the design properly, which isn't true for the F10. In the States, the AMG Pack is a free option, so our common 212's have a much more dynamic road presence than our common F10's. The M-Pack certainly brings the F10's design out as well, but it's very rare to spot.

Interior wise, I think it comes down to preference. I have a tough time picking which out of the F10 and W212's I like better. But I think M-B has mastered their classic mind-frame of interior, with focus on pleasant comfort, and a vibe of indestructibility. I appreciate the W212's open, and airier vibe, while I appreciate the F10's cozy vibe, and sleek design.

The A6 seems to be the most fashionable inside, which is ironic, and I like it, but find it lacks some warmth (too overdesigned IMO, I'm not feeling that "stretching out" effect so much). I will say, I think (ironically), the INSIDE of the A6 is where the other brands might copy from, as it's the most "revolutionary" of the trio. While the outside is as carefully evolutionary as it gets.

All in all, I'm happy that Audi kept the A6 is an option for the puritans who aren't trying to look like "todays trend" (FRONT EXCLUDED). My pick is the W212, but the F10 is right on its heels. If I bought an F10, I'd be saying that same line, just with the F10 playing the part of "my car", and the W212 as "the one that got away".

Very well said, there isn't a winner or loser here as each will appeal to different folk and for different reasons. I love the look of the F10 and have openly praised not only it's looks but it's driving experience, especially the new 8sp ZF, as for the W212, it's elegant yet strong and purposeful from the front and side but I can't quite put my finger on why I don't like the rear, the A6 is an evolution and since I liked the old one this new one instantly appeals but there as subtle differences out side and more dramatic ones like the new nose.

Inside both Merc and BMW have played it very safe, it's the total opposite with the outside, where as Audi have reversed the role being very different on the inside and super safe on the outside.

Very well put all around! I despised the W212 when it came out. I was all over Forums detesting it. I owned the W211, and I still love that car, but obviously, politics played a big part in my feelings perhaps. One thing I can never say about the 212, is that it's been boring for me, as I obsessed about it when I "hated" it, and now that "thin line" has been broken. The car was like a celebrity to me when it first came out, so it adds to my ownership experience.

This was what I meant earlier, familiarity helps soften the impact of a change in design, here you hated it at the start yet have clearly warmed to it now.

 

[K-A]

Very well said, there isn't a winner or loser here as each will appeal to different folk and for different reasons. I love the look of the F10 and have openly praised not only it's looks but it's driving experience, especially the new 8sp ZF, as for the W212, it's elegant yet strong and purposeful from the front and side but I can't quite put my finger on why I don't like the rear, the A6 is an evolution and since I liked the old one this new one instantly appeals but there as subtle differences out side and more dramatic ones like the new nose.

Inside both Merc and BMW have played it very safe, it's the total opposite with the outside, where as Audi have reversed the role being very different on the inside and super safe on the outside.



This was what I meant earlier, familiarity helps soften the impact of a change in design, here you hated it at the start yet have clearly warmed to it now.

Exactly!

And yes, some designs need to be "digested", to make a clear "decision" in how you feel. I preached that this wasn't the case for me before, but clearly I proved myself wrong, so I learned something new about myself.

Agreed about the 212's rear. It's by far the weak point of the car (kind of like the F10's blunt and flat nose). When I first got mine, I surprised my girlfriend by just having it parked in our spot, and excited to hear how she felt, she said "I first thought, why do you have a Rental Car" Ahh!!

She then analyzed the sides, and said she thought that part looked very nice, and she said the front was the most "prestigious", and nicest that she's ever seen.

My first little "mods" to my car were to the rear. It needed a bit of cleaning up, and some bringing-up-to-speed with the rest of the cars interestingness, and voila, I now pretty much love my cars rear.

I'm so glad Audi did a classy and evolutionary design with the A6. Benz has the "overdesigned/revolution" thing going, Bimmer has the "cleaning up our earlier mess" thing, and Audi didn't jump on the "let's spark controversy" bandwagon.

The Mid-Size Luxury segment is now the BEST out there, and maybe the most competitive ever. These cars all now adopt Coupe like grace, with keeping the classic Sedan proportions and stately-ness. I feel like right now, the E/5/A6 are all superior designs to their S/7/A8 daddies.

 

[footie]

The Mid-Size Luxury segment is now the BEST out there, and maybe the most competitive ever. These cars all now adopt Coupe like grace, with keeping the classic Sedan proportions and stately-ness. I feel like right now, the E/5/A6 are all superior designs to their S/7/A8 daddies.

Only one brand in my opinion bucks this trend and that is Jaguar, the XJ in the fresh is truly stunning both externally and internally, though maybe the facelift due on the XF might address this opinion though internally the XJ will still hold all the cards.

 

[klier]

^^ Uhm no, XJ looks like a nightmare. Very ulgy design right there. What on earth were they smoking when designing it? Imagine Porsche doing something similar to it's iconic 911...

My friend couldn't tell which one is new and which one old.

Seriously.... wow!! It would even be difficult in a 'spot the difference' game. All I see is different door handles

 

[footie]

^^ Uhm no, XJ looks like a nightmare. Very ulgy design right there. What on earth were they smoking when designing it?

You dislike the XJ , I think it's a very elegant and polished design, even the rear which many people have the problem with is something I admire.

Each to their own I say. Anyway sorry for straying off topic.

 

[mini_cooper4]

My top

1. A6 and 5er
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E-Class. I really think it's an ugly car!

second that

I realy like the front and rear end of the Audi... I hate Audis and it's the first time I'm puting one next to a BMW. Only design wise. I prefer BMWs
hardwear.

 

[bmwownage]

F10 for sure, in terms of exterior design. I think it has the perfect emotion/character, and a very very sleek shape. E class is a bit of a joke really, it tries to be a traditional box shaped MB with all these angles and lines all over the place. I think the A6 is an instant good looker, i mean there is nothing much to it: a set of aggressive looking lights, plain simple Audi/VW-ish tail lights and a shape borrowed from something 7 years old. But the thing is I think, for a GC i think we'd expect some distinct character or emotion for each model, while Audi's lately, while looking good, pretty much all of them have extremely similar faces (apart from the A8 which looks dumb). Looks good, but you know don't you get bored by looking at them? A4 A5 A6 A7 and you really can't tell them apart without looking at their relative size (and shape). The comparison pic from the previous page between C6 and C7 (which I actually got wrong in choosing which is which), i believe would be equally spectacular comparing a A4 with A6.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Only one brand in my opinion bucks this trend and that is Jaguar, the XJ in the fresh is truly stunning both externally and internally, though maybe the facelift due on the XF might address this opinion though internally the XJ will still hold all the cards.

The Jaguar XJ is another one of those automobiles that must be seen in the metal in order to appreciate it. I find it an unphotogenic car. It is certainly polarizing. I've seen no more than 3 XJs' on the road since they were first presented in German Jaguar showrooms last July. And all of those cars had German MTK district registration plates, indicating that these were cars from Jaguars' German distributorship pool. It doesn't appear to be doing very well here, sales wise. But then again as many would argue, this is the very home of the über sedan.

 

[Tarek]

Front: E..A6..5er.

Int:E..5er..A6.

Rear:5er..E..A6.