Poll M5 (F10) & E63 AMG PP (W212): Speed Battle!

[Karabiner98k]

This topic has nothing to do with RS6 or E63 S!
It is only about the top end performance of M5 F10 (560 PS) & E63 P.P (557 PS).

So far now:
1) M5 can stay longer in 4th & 5th gears.
2) The aerodynamics are roughly the same for both.
3) M5 has more wheel torque in 4th & 5th.

The only thing that should be take into consideration is the comparison of Dyno graphs to see how much torque actually transfers to the wheels!

 

[Deckhook]

^Not only how it translate to actual wheel torque but across the upper half of their respective rev ranges, what's officially stated is one thing and what is actual can at times be a whole different ball of wax.

Sunny, wasn't aware there was any videos of the RS7 accelerating but in any case this discuss is about E63 and M5 not RS this or that.

 

[Sunny]

The

This topic has nothing to do with RS6 or E63 S!
It is only about the top end performance of M5 F10 (560 PS) & E63 P.P (557 PS).

So far now:
1) M5 can stay longer in 4th & 5th gears.
2) The aerodynamics are roughly the same for both.
3) M5 has more wheel torque in 4th & 5th.

The only thing that should be take into consideration is the comparison of Dyno graphs to see how much torque actually transfers to the wheels!

You are right, but there so many freaking versions of W212 E63 out there, it is easy to loose track .

And the only dyno chart I know of both M5 and E63 PP on the same dyno -

vs speed

It is amazing how strong S63Tu curve is up top and how the shape of it's curves actually imitates the NA M156 except it revs even higher. The additional 1k in every gear is going to tell.

 

[Karabiner98k]

Thanks a lot Sunny.
So, according to this Dyno M5 has 537 hp at the wheels? (51 hp more than the E63?)
3 hp difference at the flywheel transformed into 51 hp difference at the wheels?!!! Why?!

According to the graph, M5 has more torque after about 5300 RPM. It should pull better at higher speeds in higher gears.

 

[DeDe]

Thanks a lot Sunny.
So, according to this Dyno M5 has 537 hp at the wheels? (51 hp more than the E63?)
3 hp difference at the flywheel transformed into 51 hp difference at the wheels?!!! Why?!

According to the graph, M5 has more torque after about 5300 RPM. It should pull better at higher speeds in higher gears.

Different testcar, different dyno, different results.

German Sport Auto measured the power a of the M5 and E63 PP on the same Maha dyno they are using for the Supertest.
E63 AMG produced 610 hp and 900 Nm, while M5 managed 620 hp and 760 Nm of torque...

 

[Karabiner98k]

German Sport Auto measured the power a of the M5 and E63 PP on the same Maha dyno they are using for the Supertest.
E63 AMG produced 610 hp and 900 Nm, while M5 managed 620 hp and 760 Nm of torque...

Yes, i know which test you are talking about. But despite high power outputs, the M5 and E63 did relatively poorly in that test.
M5 did better in Sport Auto Einzeltest. (acceleration, elasticity & laptime)

I think weather conditions were also in favour of that Supertest.

 

[Sunny]

3 hp difference at the flywheel transformed into 51 hp difference at the wheels?!!! Why?!

Well, all these cars are underrated, I guess some more so than others.

 

[DeDe]

Yes, i know which test you are talking about. But despite high power outputs, the M5 and E63 did relatively poorly in that test.
M5 did better in Sport Auto Einzeltest. (acceleration, elasticity & laptime)

I think weather conditions were also in favour of that Supertest.

You are right, even Horst von Saurma himself stated in the Supertest that the conditions were worse than they were at the time of the single test.

 

[Karabiner98k]

Well, all these cars are underrated, I guess some more so than others.

The most underrated car that i've ever seen is the GT-R.

Please explain a little about that Power vs Speed graph.

 

[Sunny]

Please explain a little about that Power vs Speed graph.

I think it is just the same graph but with car's indicated speed (which would depend on the gear they used to do the dyno run) instead of the RPM.

 

[fuhro]

Here are the test results from Autozeitung:
BMW M5 Mercedes E 63 AMG S 4matic

Weight: 1985 kg 1985 kg

0-40 kph: 1,7 s 1,3 s
0-60 kph: 2,5 s 1,9 s
0-80 kph: 3,3 s 2,7 s
0-100 kph: 4,2 s 3,6 s
0-120 kph: 5,3 s 4,7 s
0-140 kph: 6,6 s 6,0 s
0-160 kph: 8,0 s 7,6 s

NO 0-200 kph time

Handling course: 1.42,3 min 1.42,7 min
Slalom 18m: 66,8 kph 65,8 kph
Braking 100-0 kph: 33,6 m 33,3 m

 

[Deckhook]

^Is it normal for an E63 to get this close to an M5 in the handling stakes?

 

[Zafiro]

^Is it normal for an E63 to get this close to an M5 in the handling stakes?

yes since ABOUT 18 months ago when we saw the new M5/M6

 

[Karabiner98k]

0-100 kph: 4,2 s 3,6 s
0-120 kph: 5,3 s 4,7 s
0-140 kph: 6,6 s 6,0 s
0-160 kph: 8,0 s 7,6 s

M5 did 100-160 km/h in 3.8 s
E63 S did it in 4.0 s
E63 PP (557 PS) did it in 4.3 s (Autozeitung)
A rolling test will be interesting!

I thought that E63 S with 4WD would be faster than M5 on the track but it seems that it is slower!

Sunny, which gear they used in Dyno run?

 

[Zafiro]

0-160 kph: 8,0 s 7,6 s

NO 0-200 kph time

Its a shame considering how close it is to 160 km/h. M5 seem to be catching up after about 120 km/h. I wonder what the result would look like if it was from rolling start.

 

[Karabiner98k]

I wonder what the result would look like if it was from rolling start.

Soon there will be M5board videos on Youtube

 

[Sunny]

M5 did 100-160 km/h in 3.8 s
E63 S did it in 4.0 s
E63 PP (557 PS) did it in 4.3 s (Autozeitung)
A rolling test will be interesting!

I thought that E63 S with 4WD would be faster than M5 on the track but it seems that it is slower!

Sunny, which gear they used in Dyno run?

Didn't say. Here is the post -

And yes, I am surprised (pleasantly) that the M5 is faster around the rack than the latest and greatest E63 with all the whistles.

 

[Sunny]

Its a shame considering how close it is to 160 km/h. M5 seem to be catching up after about 120 km/h. I wonder what the result would look like if it was from rolling start.

All the time M5 lost is in the first 60kph, after that it is dead even till 140 after which M5 starts to catch up - which is pretty much what we saw in that video with RS7. I wouldn't be least surprised if M5 is faster than either to 300 kmph.

 

[Karabiner98k]

I wouldn't be least surprised if M5 is faster than either to 300 kmph.

Then why most people voted for E63?!

 

[Sunny]

Then why most people voted for E63?!

Lol, you asking why people in an internet forum vote a certain way? I bet many of them even didn't realize you were asking about the pre facelift car.