Range Rover Range Rover (L405)

[Monster]

Very, very impressive achievement from the RR engineers.

Land Rover doesn't know how fast the new Range Rover is. At Nardo a supercharged one hit 181mph but, as speed wasn't the focus of the test, the engineers didn't press it further. But they plan to go back. Curiosity's got the better of them.

Why so fast? Because it is so much lighter, being the world's first all-aluminium SUV. The monocoque of the L405 Range Rover, 39 per cent lighter than before, is lighter than an Audi Q5. It's 23kg lighter than an F30 BMW 3 Series. It's within 12kg of a Mini Countryman, for goodness sake​

Oh, and something genuinely remarkable: the wading depth is 900mm, the highest of any production vehicle. Ingesting intake air via the gap between bonnet and wing permits this, circulating it within the clamshell bonnet before entering intake funnels.

 

[Levi68]

Seams a huge improvement over the last one, at least to me.

 

[Monster]

Seams a huge improvement over the last one, at least to me.

As it should be, the previous car was 10 years old, and the new generation will most likely have the same life span so it needs to be a huge improvement to remain competitive in the next 10 years.

 

[Kilcrohane]

A few words from Pistonheads:

"It's within 12kg of a Mini Countryman, for goodness sake."

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26311

Do you actually believe anything that comes out of JLR's Press Office, sorry, 'Haymarket Propaganda', sorry, Pistonheads?

Unashamed propaganda spewers like Pistonheads, Autocar, and the UK's 'Car' magazine, were saying in the run up to the L405 launch that up to around 800 kilograms of weight would be lost from the new car, or some 37%! The notoriously innumerate, Bachelor of Arts type graduates, cut-and-paste monkeys populating most all of UK's auto publications, couldn't even differentiate between the 'body-in-white' weight loss figure and the whole vehicle weight loss figure.

For what it's worth the propaganda figure pumped out by JLR press office/Haymarket publications(Autocar, Pistonheads... ) et al, was for circa 4-500 kilos across the board, loss in vehicle weight from the L322 to L405, with even a sub-2,000 kg figure for the base spec new R/Rover being bandied about. Guess what? They lied. I know, the shock! Brits in perfdiy shocker! Hold the front page!

For the record, the diesel V8-engined new Range Rover weighs, according to Land Rover's own website, 2,360(2,435 kg to EU norm) kg, compared to 2,580(2,655) kg for the previous(L322) V8 diesel Range Rover. see here: http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/lr/all-new-range-rover/explore/vogue-se/ and http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/lr/range-rover/explore/westminster/

What happened to the 1/2 tonne loss for like-for-like spec vehicles? Circa 200 kg weight loss compared to the ballyhooed, propaganda of 500 kg or even 800 kg?! These Brits are incorrigible. Or, rather, the lower than a snake's belly corporate lickspittles that they invariably are, couldn't lie straight in bed.

As for the 'body-in-white' of the new R/Rover weighing 12 kg more than a 4.1 metre long, 1.25 tonnes car, do you really believe that, now, given the huge lies already made for this car by JLR and its handmaidens in the corrupted and corporate auto media in the UK? If you do, as they say in America, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you!

 

[Centurion]

A few words from Pistonheads:

"It's within 12kg of a Mini Countryman, for goodness sake."

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26311

That's just the Range Rover's monocoque, not actually the entire car. Misleading twisting or words by Pistonhead. It's like saying that Jemery Clarksson's belly is lighter than Jessica Alba and Thandie Newton.

 

[Monster]

Here is a better written article from Autocar.

The company says it is the world’s first SUV with an aluminium monocoque construction. Made up of 270 aluminium pressings, 14 castings, nine extrusions, ten steel pressings and magnesium castings, the structure is assembled by riveting and bonding. 3722 rivets are used along with 161m of adhesive.
See the Range Rover in action, and hear the development team explaining the car's dynamic capabilities
The bodyside is pressed in one piece and said to be the ‘largest automotive panel in the world’. The use of high-strength AC300 T61 aluminium in the crash structure is also said to first automotive volume use. It is 180kg lighter than the steel shell of the previous model. The Range Rover’s bare shell is also 23kg lighter than a BMW 3-series shell and a remarkable 85kg lighter than that of the Audi Q5. Indeed, Land Rover claims it is only 12kg heavier than a bare Mini Countryman shell.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2013-range-rover-full-technical-details-revealed

 

[Soup]

 

[Centurion]

Game over for the Q7 and GL. This is what a large SUV should look like.

 

[Levi68]

I think once we'll see it live next to Q7 and GL, it will really look good, especially the interior, which IMO is best in class.

 

[Carmaker1]

Range Rovers(also other Land Rovers) have always held a special place in my heart, as I hail from Birmingham which is not far from the factory in Solihull. Each Range Rover redesign from 1994 to present that I've been able to witness has always been a special moment and a blessing. One can remember that the whole brand could've eventually met the same fate as Rover, if not for past moves by BMW and Ford. Even though I despise the taillight design, the rest of it looks marvelous, especially the interior. I do look forward to seeing them in person in the next coming months, but unfortunately not in Paris due to other engagements. BTW, some of you should remember that the definitive design of the L405 was being decided at the time Tata bought JLR back in March 2008, so I wouldn't be surprised why some Fords have similarities to it.

As it should be, the previous car was 10 years old, and the new generation will most likely have the same life span so it needs to be a huge improvement to remain competitive in the next 10 years.

Well to be exact, that's almost 11 years now since it debuted via press in November 2001. Most vehicles are not even in production that long, except primarily English marques and of course the Gelandewagen(G-Class).

 

[Carmaker1]

Game over for the Q7 and GL. This is what a large SUV should look like.

This may be a little off-topic, but I wish they didn't use the pre-facelift P38. The MY2000-02 looked much better.

 

[Centurion]

I think once we'll see it live next to Q7 and GL, it will really look good, especially the interior, which IMO is best in class.

The interior of this car is beyond any SUV. Just look at the stitched leather wrapped around the gear selector. Range Rover are taking on the S-Class, A8 and 7-Series - and very convincingly though. Stay tuned for the LWB version.

 

[Kilcrohane]

Very, very impressive achievement from the RR engineers.

Er, no. Quite the contrary. There's nothing on this 'new' vehicle worthy of such embarrassingly gushing praise.

Once again, a layperson is simply taking the word of a corporation, one with a long track record of deception, and, notoriously, an inability to make a reliable, quality product; a notoriety only surpassed by Russian car makers in the Communist period.

Come on, guys, get a grip.

Let's look at facts, rather than 'TMZ'-type, lowest-common-denominator, play-to-the-peanut-gallery/rich-as-croesus-Arab-playboys, intelligence-insulating PR hype/BS.

I've dealt already, above, with the Pistonheads lie, re. the weight factoid. Let's flesh that out. Again, from public info source, the facts as follows:

L405 V8-diesel L322 V8-diesel Merc GL 350 BlueTec (V6 diesel)
weight(kg) 2,435 2,655 2,455

payload(kg) 840 620 870

acceleration 7.3 7.8 7.9
(0-62 mph)

top speed 135 130 137
(mph)

fuel econ. 32.5 30.1 38.2
(mpg imp.)

power(hp) 308 330 255

torque 516 516 457
(lb.ft)

boot cap. 2,030 2,099 2,300
(max. litres)

base price £79k £70k £60k(est.)
(UK)


So, the smaller-engined, new Mercedes GL diesel only gives away a half-second or so, on acceleration, to the 4.4l V8 diesel new R/Rover. In all other regards, this "very, very impressive achievement", is inferior to the *base* Merc GL, not to mention the now-typical JLR chutzpah of a starting £20k higher price.

There is absolutely no 'very, very impressive achievement' here, only the ability, like with the Evoque launch, to suck in mugs, and charge them +~33% gouging prices. Bravo!, to the 'engineers' of Tata's JLR subsidiary!


Let's nail this 'first all aluminium SUV' thing. All JLR have done is use essentially the now ten year old XJ(X350) platform/floorpan, developed under Ford(PAG)'s advanced materials knowhow and deep, deep pockets. There's nothing new here. All JLR have done since the sell-off almost five years ago, is use Ford's on-the-block products and tech. The 'new' R/Rover is an XJ floorpan with essentially carry-over underpinnings from the L322 and carry-over powertrains. Okay, the V8 diesel has been lifted by a measly few horsepower, but it's still shy of VAG's 4.2 V8 diesel(due for a major upgrade in the 2014MY Panamera etc.), and its now 700 Nm of torque, unchanged, is inferior to BMW/VAG's latest 3-litre 6-cylinder diesels.

The new Range Rover's gearbox comes again from ZF in Germany; its main engine in Europe, the V6 diesel, comes from Ford's UK Dagenham plant, and is still essentially the now eight year old Ford/PSA design; the V8 s/c petrol is unchanged in output, contrary to the early propaganda that its power would rise to circa 550 PS; and its still built in a Ford factory and its design traces back to the Ford-funded AJ-V8 of 15 years ago.

Where exactly is the 'impressive engineering' in this thing, except what Ford did 5-15 years ago?

The new Merc GL is already ahead of this thing, and then there's the new X5 due next year to see off the R/Rover Sport, and in late 2013/early 2014 the all-new Q7, which really will move the game on, not with BS lies in compliant media articles, but real, hard-work engineering, from the top drawer. Like I say, let's not fall for the hype and lies, like love-lorn teenage girls, and try to see the reality, of yet another cynical, smoke-and mirrors-JLR product launch. Cheers.

 

[Levi68]

The interior of this car is beyond any SUV. Just look at the stitched leather wrapped around the gear selector. Range Rover are taking on the S-Class, A8 and 7-Series - and very convincingly though. Stay tuned for the LWB version.

Yes, I am really amazed. I would dare to say it is on Rolls Royce level of luxury. I think the first true luxury SUV. After this I am sure Mercedes will "s-class" the GL, Bentley will really bring its EXP 9 and BMW may bring the X7/X8 before the CS, and this time it won't be cancelled.

 

[Ham8]

Look at this press-release! Many
high-quality photos http://www.caricos.com/cars/l/land_rover/2013_range_rover/ and video about testing, they even cut the car in half.
This is the best presentation I've ever seen!
Bravo JLR!

 

[Human]

^
^
Exactly, that's why even if I do like the new M-B GL it's only an alternative to the RR. Nothing compares to the Big Body in this segment. Not on style, comfort, size or pure undiluted luxury (Klier mate)

I keep on saying this and repeating myself...which other manufacturer offers a "Rolls-Royce Phantom AWD" for this kind of money, other that Range-Rover!? No-one for sure! And mind you, you will be able to buy at least 3x Range Rovers for 1 Phantom's price!

 

[Kilcrohane]

Let's not be too diesel-centric. For the Americans: the 'all-new', super-duper, top-of-the-line Range Rover 5-litre V8 Supercharged starting at-£100k in the UK, gas-guzzler special.

That'll be bound to cream the opposition, right?! That's *got* to be very, very impressive, right?!!! It's got a supercharged, all-singing, all-dancing big-capacity V8, and a new, world-first, featherweight mono/chassis, by those JLR oh-so-clever engineers, after all? Er, no.

Facts. That little thing that JLR marketeers, Haymarket lickspittle hacks and suspiciously enthusiastic contributors here hate.

The £100k base-price R/Rover S/C V8 is slower than the common or garden Merc GL 500; wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell with the GL63 AMG.

The facts: the top of the line R/Rover accelerates from 0-100 km/h in just under 6 secs(~5.8). The GL500 4.7 V8, giving away 80 hp to the R/Rover, manages the same sprint in 5.4s (bear in mind JLR's stated figures are usually optimistic, whereas Daimler's are usually pessimistic).

The top of the line all-new R/Rover will officially do 21 miles to the imperial gallon, whereas the faster, approximately £30k cheaper GL500, will do 25 mpg.

And just so there's no doubt as to the featherweight-like qualities of this new R/Rover, the top of the line 5-litre S/C weighs officially 2,405 kg, compared to the massively overweight, and now outdated by the new aluminium R/Rover, steel-bodied GL500 at 2,445 kg - a huge 40 kilos difference. But, as any person with a functioning brain doeth know, JLR's stated weights tend to be a teeny bit on the light side, er, usually by about 200 kgs upwards.

This probable weight of the R/Rover being over 2,600 kgs, or nearly 3 US tons, probably helps to explain why a 500 hp, 4 wheel drive vehicle, with a claimed best-in-class Cd of 0.34, can barely crack 6 secs. for 0-100 km/h, whereas a similarly obese, gass-guzzling, 4WD leviathian, like the new Bentley Continental V8, can crack it in less than 5 secs. Or. it could be simply that the R/Rover is sh!t, and other companies do real engineering, as opposed to putting 90% of their efforts into spin and BS. Just a thought. Time for a shift-change in the Gaydon 'contributors', no?

 

[Kilcrohane]

This fact about the 'all-new', 'very very impressively engineered' Range Rover is a corker! Get this:

£89k, or around $140k, for a 3-litre V6 diesel(EU5 only) Range Rover in autobiography spec. ( http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/new-2013-range-rover-prices-revealed/263801 ), which can just about manage 0-60 mph in 8 secs. Does anyone know of a more expensive/yet slower passenger vehicle on sale anywhere in the world??? Gotta give it to them boys at JLR! They sure know how to make grade A muppets out of punters; second only to Goldman Sachs and their doing of G_d's work!

 

[Monster]

This fact about the 'all-new', 'very very impressively engineered' Range Rover is a corker! Get this:

£89k, or around $140k, for a 3-litre V6 diesel(EU5 only) Range Rover in autobiography spec. ( http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/new-2013-range-rover-prices-revealed/263801 ), which can just about manage 0-60 mph in 8 secs. Does anyone know of a more expensive/yet slower passenger vehicle on sale anywhere in the world??? Gotta give it to them boys at JLR! They sure know how to make grade A muppets out of punters; second only to Goldman Sachs and their doing of G_d's work!

If the customers don't mind paying for it then why not? They are probably wealthy enough not to worry about comparing the new RR to anything else.

 

[Kilcrohane]

If the customers don't mind paying for it then why not? They are probably wealthy enough not to worry about comparing the new RR to anything else.

First of all, I was genuinely interested if anyone here would know of a higher priced passenger vehicle(before going mad adding on all possible options) that was slower than the V6 diesel Range Rover - equivalent to well over $100k for 8 sec. 0-60 mph. Surely that's unlikely, and therefore of note in itself, at least in passing.

As to 'there's a sucker born every day'/they're wealthy ebough not to worry - I don't buy that, pardon the pun.

JLR probably thought up until very recently, say no more than 3 months ago, that they could pull the same trick with the L405 as they did with the Evoque, i.e., that of dressing mutton up as lamb/old wine in new bottles, and charging usurious prices, at least 25% above comparable competition and at least 40% above what the product is intrinsically worth.

Thing is, China is crashing, plain to see in the last few months. Europe, Mario Draghi's Weimar printing notwithstanding, is a few months from outright collapse, dragged down by an imploding Spain, Italy, France and UK, in that order. Printing money and buying bonds will only work for a few months before the price of oil, petrol/diesel, energy, food and transport take another leg up, as suppliers of real commodities react to a further debasing of the currencies they receive in payment.

Once the election is out of the way in the U.S. then the real fun starts. Doesn't matter if tweedle dee or tweedle dummer gets in, the U.S. is before a default and probable hyperinflation caused by QE3, by the Fed.

That's the main part of the BRIC, Europe and the US headed into depression. That leaves Russia, the Gulf States and maybe one or two other pockets that will stay buoyant a tad longer, off the back of ballooning oil/nat gas price revenues, before the whole thing collapses, as they have no custom from their broke customers in Europe, the West and China.

The period mid 2009 to early 2012 fooled a lot of people to think the central banks had saved the world, and recovery was on its way; which lead a lot of so-called middle class people to take out loans/leases, whatever, to get into the latest 'it' vehicle, at £50k/$60k for a £20k/$30k-worth moderate SUV vehicle. That period is obviously coming to an end. No one, short of the mentally unwell, are falling for the mainstream media-pushed, subprime loan-funded blip in new car sales in the U.S., for example, plus of course outright 'channel stuffing' of dealerships to flatter sales figures, by most all vehicle makers now.

That's my take. I see the L405, its plain and cynical targetting of the nouveau riche, for want of a better term, and its gouging pricing, as representative of the end of era of falseness. 2012/3 will be all about vehicles like VW's Up!, from €8k, not £100k+ SUVs.