7 Series (G11/G12) [Official] BMW 7 Series (G11/12)

[klier]

This car is a sales failure for BMW.

Got any data to support that? And not just the U.S.

 

[JLBM]

I think the whole of the US and Europe will suffice as a yardstick. Design-wise it simply doesn't inspire.

USA - BMW still holding out hope for 7 Series sales success

Europe - European car sales data limousine segment - Left-Lane.com

Comments?

 

[Busty]

Comments?

Yes. Quote: " ... On the other hand, this is the third-best year for the model since 2006, and don’t forget the S-Class also includes sales of the coupe and convertible versions. ..."
Not that bad.

Nevertheless, dealers (and others) are desperately waiting for the facelift version. And hoping for another major leap with the next gen.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Yes. Quote: " ... On the other hand, this is the third-best year for the model since 2006, and don’t forget the S-Class also includes sales of the coupe and convertible versions. ..."
Not that bad.

Nevertheless, dealers (and others) are desperately waiting for the facelift version. And hoping for another major leap with the next gen.

Love the new avatar, Busty !

 

[Matski]

Comments?

Your opinion is hyperbole and you're exercising confirmation bias to try and support it.

 

[JLBM]

Your opinion is hyperbole and you're exercising confirmation bias to try and support it.

As they say in the South African classics: "Facts is facts." Hyperbole? I think not..

 

[Merc1]

The first article is over a year old??

M

 

[EnI]

Comments?

IMHO at least in US the 7er sales will be even more hit once X7 and 8er GranCoupe are launched.

Sales of large luxury sedans are down compared to eg. 10+ years ago - except the ones with extraordinary fleet sales (like MB S-class) - due to rising popularity of luxury SAVs / SUVs, and large 4dr coupes. And there is new competition present in the segment (Cadillac, Tesla etc).

Although G12 US sales are comparable to F02 sales: BMW 7-series US car sales figures

In Europe G11 is selling better than F01 did though: BMW 7-series European sales figures

 

[klier]

I think the whole of the US and Europe will suffice as a yardstick. Design-wise it simply doesn't inspire.

USA - BMW still holding out hope for 7 Series sales success

Europe - European car sales data limousine segment - Left-Lane.com

Comments?

How about some actual numbers instead of some random links that float your boat?
And what does or doesn't inspire you design wise is completely irrelevant.

Clearly the 7er is not the sales juggernaut the S class is, but from what I have seen in actual sales numbers, it doesn't perform half bad.

@Matski will have the numbers.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

In 2017 BMW sold 65 000 units from THE 7. It is not bad and maybe BMW never had bigger ambitions than that. I would say that they didn't allocate the biggest possible budget for R&D for this car, since the big sedans are not so lucrative like before. They found the best balance for them for investment and return of investment. BMW doesn't need an excellently designed car on the cost of huge lost like the Phaeton. For sure they could do a better 7er but the future is not in this segment.

 

[Matski]

As they say in the South African classics: "Facts is facts." Hyperbole? I think not..

Stating it as a failure is not an objective fact. Stating it as a failure when it is second only to the S-Class (the accepted segment benchmark), is an unreasonable and exaggerated standpoint which you're taking because it supports your personal subjective opinion that it's uninspiring. The fact you then try and confirm this using non-fact based editorial highlights that.

Facts are facts, your conclusion based on them is subjective.

@Matski will have the numbers.

I've not updated my graphs in a while, and I'm almost loathed to post them in this debate. If JLBM is going to set his personal subjective target that unless you are the top selling model in the segment you are a failure - then the 7-er cannot be redeemed in his eyes....

This is the 7-er's performance As at the end of 2017...

.. these last two years have been 2 of the best... but, we can't ignore they've not peaked at the same level the F01 did.

If you look at the S-Class sales graphs on the left-lane site JLBM posted you'll see the S-Class is on an overall downward trend since 2000, so it could be the market for German luxury saloons is contracting anyway.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

"Sales failure" is really a bit rich. Of course, BMW directors would love to see their luxury sedan flagship more or less consistently occupying the No. 1 unit sales spot in the 7ers given segment (which I believe was last the case with the E38 when it went directly head-to-head against M-Bs' W140 S-Class from MY 1995 through MY 1998. And then came the W220...). Today, we have a different ballgame with luxury SUVs' invading the customer demographic. As well as new competitors such as Porsches' Panamera (now with its' Sport Turismo derivative). Or Teslas' S (although debatable as to whether the Tesla S should be categorized in that segment). So yes, the sales of the G11/G12 may be considered "suboptimal". But it is really quite far from being a "failure".

 

[SCOTT27]

The market is contracting for luxury sedans in favour of luxury SUVs and practical sports cars which enhance the luxury aspect.
Would not be surprised if the next GLS-Klasse if it is being more S-Klasse than extended GLE start to cannibalise the S-Klasse as the X7 is expected to do so with The 7.

 

[714Merc]

"Sales failure" is really a bit rich. Of course, BMW directors would love to see their luxury sedan flagship more or less consistently occupying the No. 1 unit sales spot in the 7ers given segment (which I believe was last the case with the E38 when it went directly head-to-head against M-Bs' W140 S-Class from MY 1995 through MY 1998. And then came the W220...). Today, we have a different ballgame with luxury SUVs' invading the customer demographic. As well as new competitors such as Porsches' Panamera (now with its' Sport Turismo derivative). Or Teslas' S (although debatable as to whether the Tesla S should be categorized in that segment). So yes, the sales of the G11/G12 may be considered "suboptimal". But it is really quite far from being a "failure".

Incentives, some quite massive, are the reason the 7er sells at all in the US; throw in a hard push to limousine companies.
7 series sales numbers are putrid...

 

[SCOTT27]

Incentives, some quite massive, are the reason the 7er sells at all in the US; throw in a hard push to limousine companies.
7 series sales numbers are putrid...

They do substantial discounts and incentives on the S-Klasse and 7er elsewhere including Germany and the USA. It's the state of the market. Not everyone is immune in this segment.

 

[714Merc]

They do substantial discounts and incentives on the S-Klasse and 7er elsewhere including Germany and the USA. It's the state of the market. Not everyone is immune in this segment.

Agree with that; but, S-Class is getting long in the tooth, and will be replaced in 2 years, incentives are understandable. The 7 is still "new," and has needed incentivization since its birth...

Edit: Hopefully BMW will blow us away with the 7's LCI. Looks like a promising replacement for my beloved 2014 S550. Otherwise it's 2021 and the V223 or bust for me...

 

[Matski]

Incentives, some quite massive, are the reason the 7er sells at all in the US; throw in a hard push to limousine companies.
7 series sales numbers are putrid...

From the Automotive News article via BMW Blog via JLBM's post..

Incentive spending has been high in the segment. BMW spent an average of $12,544 per 7 series for all of 2016 and an average of $11,095 through the first three months of 2017, according to Autodata. In comparison, Mercedes spent an average of $12,998 on the S class in 2016 and $11,467 so far in 2017. The base 7 series starts at $84,095, while the S-class sedan starts at $97,525; prices include shipping. Base prices for top-level trims for both easily top $150,000.

 

[sako97]

When I had a B7 for a weekend recently, I was told by sales associate that sales aren't as bad as some reports have indicated, but they are eagerly anticpating the LCI for a boost as they believe this generation is too conservative overall.

The discount offered on the B7 was pretty eyewatering, but that's a discussion for the sales thread.

The only real issue I have with the G11/12 is the limited rear seat headroom. My head rests on the headliner, making it a rather uncomfortable ride as a rear seat passenger. I hope this is addressed with the next generation, as this is a big issue in regards to appeal for limosine and livery companies.

 

[JLBM]

LOL! I had a chuckle this morning! Dislikes, WTF’s and Drama Queen ratings! At least I revived the thread.

 

[Matski]

LOL! I had a chuckle this morning! Dislikes, WTF’s and Drama Queen ratings! At least I revived the thread.

It's a bit like natural fertilizer really. Bullshit is applied and things grow! Miraculous.