911 (991) [Official] 2014 Porsche 911 GT3

[hoffmeister_fan]

After seeing Milanno's PS, this would look epic in Gulf livery. Then again, a Corolla would look good in the Gulf livery.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Ohhhh. Oohhhhh. Ohhhhhh myyyyy....Time for a very long shower......

New dream car? Yes.

 

[Levi68]

I disagree with those thinking the new 911 GT3 has gone too soft. Since when have race cars got manual gearboxes and hydrolic steering? The new 911 GT3 is just too good to get mechanical stuff. Those wanting it simple need to get those "underpowered" cars like Toyota GT86 and Alfa 4C, or yet Ariel Atom, BAC Mono, and all those. Sure a McLaren F1 or Porsche CGT is nice, but very few can handle them as they ought to be driven, and racers have their race-car, so for them a softer road car is fine. And why isn't the new 911 GT3 engine a race engine? BS.

 

[klier]

Too good for mechanical stuff?? What nonsense is that Levi?? It would have made the car only better imo.

And the ne t gen M3 will get a manual. Not exactly underpowered...

 

[Levi68]

I dislike how everyody is playing the hard-core purist. I bet most can't drive a manual as it is to be driven in racing. I don't see what a manual would offer the new 911 GT3? More involvement? Keep that for marketing. While I like manual, and thought is was bad the new 911 GT3 didn't get, now I don't think that way. Porsche engineers know better, and they are not liars like at BMW.

Proof that the 911 GT3 PDK is that good, is that when I saw the spyvid of the car on the N-Ring I said it sounded like sequential. I believe it is the best dual-clutch we have on the market now.

 

[mini_cooper4]

I dislike how everyody is playing the hard-core purist. I bet most can't drive a manual as it is to be driven in racing. I don't see what a manual would offer the new 911 GT3? More involvement? Keep that for marketing. While I like manual, and thought is was bad the new 911 GT3 didn't get, now I don't think that way. Porsche engineers know better, and they are not liars like at BMW.

Proof that the 911 GT3 PDK is that good, is that when I saw the spyvid of the car on the N-Ring I said it sounded like sequential. I believe it is the best dual-clutch we have on the market now.

Well I'm really a purist and really can shift a manual like in racing, Levi
Fast is not everything

 

[Levi68]

I know fast is not everything, that is why I like "slow GT86".

But arguments like "fast is not everything" are as valid as "high-revs are not everything".

Regards.

 

[Sunny]

I disagree with those thinking the new 911 GT3 has gone too soft. Since when have race cars got manual gearboxes and hydrolic steering?

Except GT3 is not a race car. No one is professionally racing a GT3. So the "cause race car" argument is hardly applicable here.

The new 911 GT3 is just too good to get mechanical stuff.

Drive one (the old one), even at 10mph in a parking lot and come back and make the same statement. The mechanical and raw feeling is the best part of a GT3.

And why isn't the new 911 GT3 engine a race engine?

Because Porsche it self is not using the new engine in any of it's race cars - not 991 cup car, not 991 RSR. They are sticking to the old Mezger engine for both.

The current Evo describes the ethos behind the GT3 best -

The GT3 has never been about outright power and grip. The joy of GT3 is that it mixes purity of purpose with subtlety of feel. Chases lap times but never at expense of driver involvement and that it rewards at walking pace even though it's developed to be driven flat out for hours on end with out so much as a flicker of it's oil temperature gauge.

ps. I am not saying the new GT3 is bad, it could still be as special as the previous ones and I waiting for some real test drives and reviews. And hopefully it hasn't given up the ethos of the previous GT3s in pursuit of quicker lap times.

 

[mini_cooper4]

I know fast is not everything, that is why I like "slow GT86".

But arguments like "fast is not everything" are as valid as "high-revs are not everything".

Regards.

What do you mean? Of course high-revs are not everything.
It's the combination of the NA high-revving H6 matched to a manual 6/7-speed transmission... now that might be everything You said it yourself - race drivers do have their race car. Why do I need a sequential-like gearbox during my free time?
The same goes to the average enthusiast that calls himself a driver... he mostly cares about driver enjoyment when he opts for a GT3... those going for speed and straight line acceleration will most likely opt for the 991 Turbo. Put PDK in the GT3... but at least give us the option to go with the slow manual if we want to!

 

[Levi68]

The PDK in the happens to make the 911 GT3 more interesting to me, not that the previous wasn't. To me, though they are the same cars, they clearly are from a different era and have a different approach to motorsports. Just like the M3 E30 evolved to the M3 F80, not yet out, so say E92, the same way the new 911 GT3 is. The 1M/M2 is the reincarnation of the orignial M3, so do I expect the Cyaman to be that car.

If there was a choice between a manual and PDK 911 GT3, I'd take the PDK. If there was that same choice for the now previous generation, I wouldn't take PDK, but manual.

It is not only about one detail of the car, it is the overall package that must create a synergy. PDK is the best choice for the new 911 GT3, just as it is for an M5/M6 opposed to manual.

What make the Alfa 4C imperfect? Its Fiat Punto control buttons? Its plastic headlights? It's cheap interior? Its lack of storage place? Its 1.7 TBI? No, the simple fact it has no manual, when the car is more basic than a 30 year old Mercedes.


Can't wait for reviews of the GT3. I'd prefer this over "the ugly" 458 Italia. But it will get really interesting once the 458 Monte Carlo is out.

 

[Sunny]

^Wow, I am disappointed Levi. You only managed to drag E30 M3, F80 M3, E92, 1M, M2, Cayman, Alfa Romeo 4c, Fiat Punto, 458 Italia and 458 Monte Carlo into a argument about GT3. Why the heck would you leave the W222 S class out? What about G50 M5? And not even a mention of Lexus LFY? Fail!!

 

[mini_cooper4]

The PDK in the happens to make the 911 GT3 more interesting to me, not that the previous wasn't. To me, though they are the same cars, they clearly are from a different era and have a different approach to motorsports. Just like the M3 E30 evolved to the M3 F80, not yet out, so say E92, the same way the new 911 GT3 is. The 1M/M2 is the reincarnation of the orignial M3, so do I expect the Cyaman to be that car.

If there was a choice between a manual and PDK 911 GT3, I'd take the PDK. If there was that same choice for the now previous generation, I wouldn't take PDK, but manual.

It is not only about one detail of the car, it is the overall package that must create a synergy. PDK is the best choice for the new 911 GT3, just as it is for an M5/M6 opposed to manual.

What make the Alfa 4C imperfect? Its Fiat Punto control buttons? Its plastic headlights? It's cheap interior? Its lack of storage place? Its 1.7 TBI? No, the simple fact it has no manual, when the car is more basic than a 30 year old Mercedes.


Can't wait for reviews of the GT3. I'd prefer this over "the ugly" 458 Italia. But it will get really interesting once the 458 Monte Carlo is out.

I disagree, Levi.

I want the M3 to be an M3... it still has a manual and a dual-clutch as an option... at least you have a choice here.
If the 1M is now what a true M3 used to stand for... then it's 1M from now on and let the M3 rest in peace.
The Cayman will be the pure Porsche from now on, you say... then let the 911 rest in peace.
I'm a purist as many other... we might be a minority but just because we never shut up there's a manual M5 again... there might be a manual GT3 too and so on and so on. I love cars the same way I prefer girls... naked
Put the GT3 in whatever clothes you want just never let me see or feel that... make the electric steering feel real and give great feedback - possible. Make any H6 engine feel magnificent and rev high as long as it's NA - possible.
Make the PDK feel like a sequential - possible. Now go in your car and try to feel every single shift you make... your hand, your arm, your leg, your foot... it happens so fast but it's so harmonious... and that feeling... ohh that feeling!
From experience: Not a single sequential racing gearbox I have experience with is even remotely as fun as the 5-Speed manual in my 97 VW Polo... trust me

 

[Levi68]

I'm not arguing against manual. Just that in my view manual doesn't fit anymore with the new 911 GT3. Have I driven it/them? No. But I don't need to drive the Mercedes S Class (W222) to say that a manual wouldn't fit.

 

[Guibo]

Interesting conversation and I can see both sides of the discussion. I think it would have been better for Porsche to have at least offered the manual as standard and the PDK as an option. I would agree that it is more involving in some sense to be in control of a clutch (the stick actuation is neither here nor there for me, unless you're talking about the clink-clacky action of an old Ferrari or R8 metal gated shifter), but whether the driving enjoyment overall is reduced due to the PDK is yet to be determined. Remember, this guy, one of the most vocal critics of automated manual gearboxes:


Now look what he's written as it relates to the new Clio RS which has only a DCT:
"Am I having less fun here because I've not got a manual gear change? I've got less to do, I'll give you that. Does that equate to less fun? I'm not sure that that's less fun or not. I'm still enjoying myself....I've got more time to concentrate on my line and what I'm doing with the car because I'm not messing around with a lever down here
There's a bit of a mismatch between the torque delivery and the gear ratios, but if you keep on it, it's quick and it stays in there and you do feel like you're in a little racing car, [paddle-shift motions] 'bap-bap-bap'! up through the gears.
This double clutch is made by Getrag...the more I drive this car, the more I like it, the more I feel on the road, 'You know what? I could live without having a manual gearbox. I'm having a lot of fun here.'
And also, one thing I've done today (and quite a bit) is use the old [push-pull] gearlever down here. I found myself doing that to pretend I'm a bit of a Ragnotti-style driver. You go down, it blips down, you get a pop on the throttle and away you go.
You can only judge it by the way that you respond to it*, as a driver. And I'm enjoying it."

*I suspect that this gets to the heart of it: If you're an old manual-style driver, and you expect the same kind of experience, you're going to be disappointed. If you look at it from a slightly different perspective, looking at what can come as a benefit as a compromise to the tradeoff of having a manual (eg, concentrating more on lines, braking points, holding a drift while upshifting if you're so inclined), then the overall fun hasn't been diminished. For some people, the feeling of being in a race-like car, even if they're not going for lap or segment times, can be part of the fun. It's part of the "theater" of having a modern, sporty car.

What's interesting is that Harris isn't exactly sold on that particular implementation of the DCT. On the Renault, he feels some of the shifts aren't fast enough. This is where the implementation matters. Not saying this is a problem with Porsche shifters, as they tend to have among the best in class, but a poorly executed, balky shifter with an excessively heavy, unfeeling clutch is no better than a good DCT, IMO. And surely the drivetrain matters: If you're using a 9000 rpm engine on the road, it's nice to have a transmission that can keep pace, rather than shortshifting to avoid hitting the limiter. The consensus among 360CS, Scuderia, and even E60 M5 drivers has been that a manual transmission simply doesn't suit the drivetrain, doesn't suit the character of the car, that the car is better thanks to the automated manual.
The truth, no matter how sad it may be for purists, is that Porsche is like any other company. It exists to make profits.

 

[Sunny]

From my very limited experience of a DCT transmission (a GTR), the enjoyment really comes down to the roads you are driving on - on your regular roads, especially the ones you know very well, it is down right boring. On the other hand, on a challenging unfamiliar back road, it is quite helpful in letting you concentrate on the other functions of driving and not worry about being in the right gear into a unfamiliar decreasing radius uphill corner.

Which makes sense cause the ideal degree of driver involvement is that sweet spot between where a driveris overwhelmed with too much to do and where you are bored with nothing to do and that point is going to be vary based on your driving skill, the road you are on, your pace and other driving conditions.

 

[Sunny]

 

[mini_cooper4]

I do agree with everything you say, Guibo.

PS: I truly love BMW's 6-speed manual... it's just perfect for my needs.
Not a single automated gearbox can beat the joy it gives me

 

[Sunny]

New video and pics -

 

[Levi68]

Love the stance, so flush.

 

[MarcinM]

Still no multi function steering wheel on Porsche , why are they so reluctant to allow the driver to adjust the radio volume while gripping the steering wheel ?