Vs Mercedes S-Class vs. BMW 7-series

[mdartisian]

Bottom line is, BMW blundered because of their strategy in thinking the customers didn't want anything too revolutionary and fear of a Bangle era repeat. Someone said here that BMW had a 7er proposal that had an interior with elegant curves but it was rejected.

To me this isn't just BMW design, it's BMW as a whole. A poster from the other site said a while back BMW i and BMW M were at odds with each other and their was a struggle within the company as to the direction the brand should go in.

Porsche sells the idea of performance, MB sells the idea of luxury, BMW attempts to sell the idea of tech, and it isn't working. The tech world moves too quickly. Audi is about to out-tech the S and the 7 when the A8 drops.

The 5er is around the corner, so management better put on their thinking caps as to what message they want to send and how that will be perceived. Basing it on tech isn't going to work this time.

 

[MAJESTIC]

I feel sorry to say, but the G11/G12 is, less than a year after it's introduction, already a lost generation...

I 100000% agree, but to be fair, look at what it is going up against this time around; Mercedes went above and beyond anything in the class to reaffirm the S-Class' dominance and it has paid off greatly. Nothing in the class comes even remotely close to the level of decadence and presence the W222 offers and Mercedes (and BMW) knows it.

But I must say, doubling the incentives of those of a near 4 year old car is quite sad of BMW to be honest; however it just once again depicts the S-Class' dominance.

 

[klier]

So much doom and gloom. The Bangle generation was a fluke, BMW has always been conservative/boring. They'll shake things up again when sales slow down, but the sales are at an all time high. One almost starts believing the company is on the verge of collapsing after reading about this lost generation and being stuck.

Still I agree with @Merc1 and @Mick Briesgau and @Rolf to some extend at least. I myself find the new 7er beautiful but boring inside out. The new 5er is going to be a facelifted F10, and the X5 is the ugliest version yet.
BMW is playing it safe because they sell a lot of cars and don't want to lose that. But this strategy they have now might as well backfire just as hard...

Bottom line is, BMW blundered because of their strategy in thinking the customers didn't want anything too revolutionary and fear of a Bangle era repeat. Someone said here that BMW had a 7er proposal that had an interior with elegant curves but it was rejected.

To me this isn't just BMW design, it's BMW as a whole. A poster from the other site said a while back BMW i and BMW M were at odds with each other and their was a struggle within the company as to the direction the brand should go in.

Porsche sells the idea of performance, MB sells the idea of luxury, BMW attempts to sell the idea of tech, and it isn't working. The tech world moves too quickly. Audi is about to out-tech the S and the 7 when the A8 drops.

The 5er is around the corner, so management better put on their thinking caps as to what message they want to send and how that will be perceived. Basing it on tech isn't going to work this time.

Because they realize the internal combustion engine is about to go bye bye, which means 100 years of development down the drain, the core of BMW as an engineering company gone, and a clean sheet for everybody and anyone with billions on his account to start over freshly again. BMW simply has no idea what to do. Why would one want a BMW when cars drive themselves? When a car drives itself a comfy MB sounds like a better idea to be honest.

 

[SCOTT27]

Less than a year after BMW introduced the latest iteration of its flagship 7-Series, a roomy sedan that can park itself via remote control, the automaker has quietly conceded that it landed with a thud. Even so, the $81,500 car is so vital to the bottom line that BMW is doubling down with a coupe variant.

A sporty two-door version of the 7-Series is in the works for as soon as as 2019, according to a person familiar with BMW’s plan, who asked not to be named because the plans aren’t public. The luxury coupe is the first of several new versions BMW is considering to give sales of its highest-end car a lift.

Mercedes-Benz used a similar strategy to cement the position of its S-Class as the world’s best-selling top-of-the-line sedan. Just four years ago, the 7-Series was at parity with its Mercedes rival. Today, sales have fallen 40 percent below those of the S-Class and are only slightly ahead of Tesla Motors Inc.’s Model S. Next year will be even tougher for the 7-Series, with Audi poised to introduce a self-driving version of its A8 flagship. BMW’s aim with new variants is to pull even with the leader again, according to the person familiar with its plans.

BMW will also bring out a competitor in the range above 150,000 euros ($170,000), development chief Klaus Froehlich told Automotive News this year. That would be roughly the same price category as the Maybach.

In the meantime, a plug-in hybrid and the first high-performance version of the current 7-Series sedan will contribute to sales, BMW says. Thanks to last year’s revamp, deliveries of the car more than doubled in July to 5,025 vehicles, and a company representative said it expects “this positive trend to continue over the course of 2016.”

Wild Card



The wild card will be Audi’s A8, which will have self-driving systems more advanced than those of either the 7-Series or the S-Class. Drivers will be able to let the car take over completely in highway traffic jams at speeds of up to 60 kilometers (37 miles) an hour, according to the company. Unlike Tesla’s Model S and this year’s Mercedes E-Class, Audi’s car won’t then require a hand on the wheel.


“The new A8 will be quite a meaningful departure from the current model,” said Stuart Pearson, an analyst at Exane BNP Paribas in London. “You’d expect to see 7-Series sales start to decline again when the A8 comes out.”

The fat return on sales makes clear why carmakers are fighting for buyers in this segment. Mercedes’s profit margin on the S-Class was 14 percent last year, versus 9.5 percent across the Daimler AG unit’s auto division, Evercore ISI estimates. BMW saw an estimated 11 percent return on the 7-Series, exceeding the 9.2 percent across its automotive unit last year.

Growing discounts from U.S. dealers highlight the difficulties BMW has had in luring customers, said Commerzbank AG analyst Sascha Gommel, citing researcher Autodata Corp. Price incentives for the 7-Series climbed twice as much as those for the S-Class this year and hit $13,053 per vehicle last month.

“The 7-Series will be highly profitable and have decent sales volumes, but it’ll never really measure up to the S-Class,” Gommel said. “The two used to compete head to head, but there’s no chance anymore.”

Someone has failed to mention that this is from the US perspective.
Its an entirely different story in other global markets.

 

[HUTSUTAo]

Someone has failed to mention that this is from the US perspective.
Its an entirely different story in other global markets.

 

[LaArtist]

Ouch that report was harsh, harsh but true. I've been saying this for years they are slacking! But I see their plan, they decided to milk the crap out of the bangle revolution, and so they have done very successfully up until the last 1-2 years. It has run its course, and I thought that this new generation with the new 7er would be the end of the 15 year long milking procedure.. But no they did it again and they will do it once more with the 5er all signs are showing this. And they Will and are paying a price for that, this 7er is more or less a still born,but they can stomach that, a 5er that's not up to par for the coming 7 years will be brutal to stomach economically..
The revolution has to come with the next 3er which is at least 2 years away, it might be to late.. To late how? Will bmw seize to exist? Of course not! Will they take a hit hell yes.
Will they go under even if the next 3er is an evolution? No they won't! Will it take them over a decade to get back on top.. Most certainly!

I won't do what the bmw fans did back in early 00-s and predict the end of Mercedes. Hell will freeze before any of these companies go under.

But one thing is for sure they need to do something big, and they need to do it yesterday, if they still aspire to be the number one premium auto maker.

Ps
I find it funny that when some ppl talked about the heavy discounts on bmw cars a few months back they caught some serious flack and second guessing from the bmw fans, now that it's presented by the media the tone is very different.

PPS
Props to @klier for having enough subjectivity to take this for what it is..I thought I would never see the day where you would admit that bmw do anything wrong. Eni gave in a while back, only Scott left.. I have low hopes for
Him though.

And finally it's a massive failure for a company like bmw with the benchmark at their disposal to still come up with what they did with the new 7er, the s class didn't debut at the same time
It's been around for several years, and I'm sure as shit they stripped it down to the bones and back up again several times and you still come up with such a sub par effort. I expect more from bmw to be honest!

 

[Merc1]

Bingo.

M

 

[Yaz]

Are we sure that's @klier talking

 

[Mick Briesgau]

but to be fair, look at what it is going up against this time around

Agreed @BigBenzGirl. However I would like to emphasize @LaArtist words:

it's a massive failure for a company like bmw with the benchmark at their disposal to still come up with what they did with the new 7er, the s class didn't debut at the same time
It's been around for several years

BMW knew what they were up against, but didn't react properly.

 

[Wunderkind]

Agreed @BigBenzGirl. However I would like to emphasize @LaArtist words: BMW knew what they were up against, but didn't react properly.

Scott's gonna hate me for saying it. But for the N'th time, making large sedans and coupes is just not in BMW's DNA, period.

 

[mdartisian]

Scott's gonna hate me for saying it. But for the N'th time, making large sedans and coupes is just not in BMW's DNA, period.

Gran Lusso, VFL (and Karim) beg to differ.

 

[Monster]

That is a pretty cold smack down from HUTSUTAo.

 

[Monster]

Gran Lusso, VFL (and Karim) beg to differ.

Yes..but they are both concept cars and the Gran Lusso was designed with Pininfarina. If anything BMW had the golden opportunity with the Concept CS, but BMW dropped its balls and went on to make more SUVs.

 

[klier]

That is a pretty cold smack down from HUTSUTAo.

Yea ice cold!

Particularly when we compare a 7er sedan vs a whole S class family, including Maybachs, cabrios and coupes.

Or are you guys saying that's just the sedan???

 

[LaArtist]

Yea ice cold!

Particularly when we compare a 7er sedan vs a whole S class family, including Maybachs, cabrios and coupes.

Or are you guys saying that's just the sedan???

Lol those are low volume sellers, and just came along recently.. It's mainly the Sedan

 

[klier]

Lol those are low volume sellers, and just came along recently.. It's mainly the Sedan

Yes I would assume the sedan takes the biggest piece of the pie.
So do we have a breakdown for the numbers somewhere?

 

[Monster]

@SCOTT27 has BMW conducted any internal study as to why the response to the new 7 series has been a bit underwhelming.

 

[tomazino]

I guess that in last 2 months 7 sales numbers are better than s sedan.
Jun, S segment - 8500, 7 series - 6300
July, S segment - 6900, 7 series - just above the 5k mark.
If my guess is not correct, that mean that coupe, cabrio and maybach sale is not so good..

I think that we talk about luxurious sedans, right?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

@SCOTT27 has BMW conducted any internal study as to why the response to the new 7 series has been a bit underwhelming.

According to Scott there is nothing to study. Everything is fine.

Someone has failed to mention that this is from the US perspective.
Its an entirely different story in other global markets.

 

[klier]

@SCOTT27 has BMW conducted any internal study as to why the response to the new 7 series has been a bit underwhelming.

But is this really the case? Yes, the S class sells more, but this has always been the case. But lets compare the 7er with the last 7er.

I guess that in last 2 months 7 sales numbers are better than s sedan.
Jun, S segment - 8500, 7 series - 6300
July, S segment - 6900, 7 series - just above the 5k mark.

If the S class sales are including all variants, the 7er is doing A okay?