Autobild: Test BMW 740i vs. Audi A8 4.2 FSI vs. Mercedes S 450

[coolraoul]

You've mentioned several good points. I agree with you completely.

BUT...


I am a Mercedes-Benz fan, always have been. Why? Because their history and heritage were so fascinating. This is what got me hooked on Mercedes. They had a cool history with decades of innovation and achievements and many "firsts in this and that" (motorsport, technology etc.).

I am sure you will understand me because you yourself are a Mercedes fan, a passionate one I can see.

The perception of Lexus as a luxury brand equal to Audi, BMW and Mercedes is high these days, yes, that's no secret. But as someone who knows the history behind Mercedes, its achievements and how they earned their spot in the automotive hall of fame (if there is one), it will be a pain in the neck to hear how Lexus is soooooooooooooooo this and sooooooooooo that - because to us (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Skoda, Citroen - fans), Lexus has done nothing that would warrant their placing in this elite level of automobile. Do you get what I am saying? Other brands worked hard to get where they are - Lexus received funding from rich daddy Toyota to get where they are essentially. See my analogy in my last post (in green).

I'm talking about unfairness here. I know this seems childish but as someone who appreciates the history of car brand and the impact and reputation and perception it places on the brand, I cannot accept that Lexus is on the same level in terms of prestige. I have often said that they're superior or equal competitors in terms of technology, but not brand prestige.

I know that many people just want the best deal and don't care about brand prestige - that's fine. But what isn't fine is when these same people, who know sh*t about car brands and their history, start claiming that Lexus is on the same brand prestige level as Mercedes or Audi or BMW or Tatra or Lada D). That really pisses me off.

We are on the same boot. Lexus came, copied Europe's best, and released it with a lower pricetag. And voilà, here is Lexus... Whereas Mercedes worked hard to make the automobile what it is today, made the most decisive inventions after years of R&D with the first safety concerns and the first answers to the problems of people protection.

Nobody deserves its place on the top of the automotive world more than Mercedes-Benz.
Nobody deserves the same place less than Lexus, who basically did nothing else than recopy the recipe and replace pepper by salt...

But so is our world, where appearance and marketing have such a place...

 

[cawimmer430]

Again, GOOD POINTS.

Here...

But historically, what Lexus achieved is unique, and has to be saluted.

I am not going to accuse you of leaving this out, but one of my biggest gripes is how many people leave out the "Toyota factor". Lexus wouldn't be anywhere without Toyota. Toyota created them and funded their projects. Lexus got their money from Toyota (and still gets cash from their daddy when they require it).

Karl Benz and Gottlieb Daimler had to first of all work with their own money, then they had to convince investors of their technology, visions and ideas. Mind you, I am sure you're aware that far too many people at that time were skeptical of the automobile so the chances of Benz or Daimler finding an investor were a bit grim.

My reason for mentioning this is that Lexus has had it very easy. They've never had to struggle, survive two world wars and that. Think of my analogy a few posts above. Lexus got to where they are because of Toyota, the rich daddy with money.


Yes, what Lexus did was phenomenal, but it is no secret that they essentially took apart the benchmark of that era - a W126 Mercedes S-Class and later a W140 S-Class - studied it and improved upon it. Essentially, Lexus improved upon existing Mercedes technology and released their own version called LS400.

 

[cawimmer430]

We are on the same boot. Lexus came, copied Europe's best, and released it with a lower pricetag. And voilà, here is Lexus... Whereas Mercedes worked hard to make the automobile what it is today, made the most decisive inventions after years of R&D with the first safety concerns and the first answers to the problems of people protection.

Nobody deserves its place on the top of the automotive world more than Mercedes-Benz.
Nobody deserves the same place less than Lexus, who basically did nothing else than recopy the recipe and replace pepper by salt...

But so is our world, where appearance and marketing have such a place...

You nailed it.

 

[VroomVroom]

We are on the same boot. Lexus came, copied Europe's best, and released it with a lower pricetag. And voilà, here is Lexus... Whereas Mercedes worked hard to make the automobile what it is today, made the most decisive inventions after years of R&D with the first safety concerns and the first answers to the problems of people protection.

Nobody deserves its place on the top of the automotive world more than Mercedes-Benz.
Nobody deserves the same place less than Lexus, who basically did nothing else than recopy the recipe and replace pepper by salt...

But so is our world, where appearance and marketing have such a place...

Perfect ending

 

[cawimmer430]

I feel the same about the Nissan Gt-r, suddenly came out of know where and assertively argued that it was faster that then Porsche 911 turbo around the N-ring and in the end...it's not.

Well, the Nissan GT-R is a phenomenal car that can rightly compete and even beat the best from Europe and America. I don't really have a problem with the GT-R. In fact it is basically an extension of the infamous Skyline cars. The Skyline is one of my favorite Japanese cars, especially the R34 version both in sedan and coupe form. In Japan the Skyline can trace its history back to the 1960s with each successive version improving on the old but retaining the same concept: sports sedan.

It's like the history of the BMW 3-Series. It was always a sports sedan.

I agree though that some people completely blow things out of proportion. The GT-R beating some Porsches and Ferraris around a track doesn't mean Nissan will have more brand prestige than these companies. It adds to brand prestige and achievements, but you've got to do more than that to get an equal footing with these two European brands.

If Lexus hadn't of barged it way to the top and and demanded 1st place people wold respect them more, if they slowly worked there way up (which is what Audi did) people would respect them more beause they earned that place

Exactly. More or less how I feel.

I have more respect for Acura and Infiniti because they compete with Audi and BMW respectively (from a philosophy point of view) yet are "down to earth". I've never heard of them pretending to be what they're not. Moreover, I have to say that I have been impressed with the humbleness and honesty of most Acura and Infiniti fans. They give credit where credit is due. Lexus fans are the worst and are one reason why I dislike Lexus. I know you shouldn't listen to fans but lately I feel that Lexus is behaving in the same way.

Lexus is a good brand with some superb products (and many overrated products too) but I feel that they've become snobby as of late and feel that they're on the same brand prestige level as Mercedes or BMW or Audi, which in my opinion they're far away from.

I completly respect you opinions about Mercedes becaue your a Mercedes Fan, but as an Audi fan (I have to try and defend them)

I understand.

Again, Audi has prestige and heritage, but when you look at the whole picture Mercedes and BMW would come ahead from a purely statistical point of view based on the time they've been around, achievements etc. I hope you understand what I am saying. I like Audi, always have and I always felt that Audi deserves more respect, now more than ever.

 

[VroomVroom]

I do understand, and I do agree!

What a fun debate At least we have settled everyones hate for Lexus

 

[cawimmer430]

I At least we have settled everyones hate for Lexus

And more importantly, WHY.

This forum backs up their opinions with facts and arguments that have a footing, unlike oh....ClubLexus.com

 

[VroomVroom]

And more importantly, WHY.

This forum backs up their opinions with facts and arguments that have a footing, unlike oh....ClubLexus.com

Exactly, we are not completly biased towards Lexus. We have our reasons and with our reasons follow facts and arguments and with acts and arguments brings debate and with debate brings us together (I've been watching the Volvo advert)

shall we cause some trouble over at ClubLexus

 

[duleprof]

It's not fare to say that Audi don't have any prestige cars, Audi do make some amazing cars do compete with top level Mercedes and BMWs. A lot of people dislike Audi because they came from know where really and they can compete and are even better than the two majour brands (Mercedes ad BMW), well there was there previous companies but you have to be real entuhsiasts to know what they were about. Everyone only started to know who Audi were when the quattro was first introduced into b group rally.

But I don't belive Audi don't have a brand image for one minute, the brand image migh not be full of pure heritage like Mercedes or a well know name for sporty cars like BMW, But they are building up a very good image for quality, sporty, luxury cars (shame Lexus can't do the same)

Anyway I'm sure we could argue all day, would only end bad tho

IF you think that audi has no history just look at my siganture!!

 

[VroomVroom]

IF you think that Audi has no history just look at my siganture!!

well there was there previous companies but you have to be real enthusiasts to know what they were about.

Was referring to DWK, Horch, NSU