Mr. M
Tire Trailblazer
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I just read a forum based in Singapore, discussing about the purchase of a GS300 over a BMW 523i, an A6 and a E200. The discussion has expanded to become a German vs. Japanese debate, and it is very interesting what some people wrote. Some interesting points to note:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?t=1199001&page=1&pp=15 (Be mindful that because it is a Singaporean forum, some terms used are Singlish)
The engineering of Japanese cars now meets or exceeds the Germans in reliability and sophistication often. Just take the new IS250 engine and compare it with the BMW 325 engine. The IS250 engine has dual fuel supply - direct and indirect fuel injection, with infinitely variable timing on both intakes and exhaust, with better fuel consumption and more power than the BMW 2.5L 6 in line. The BMW boasts dual VANOS and Valvetronic and better materials, but worse fuel consumption and down in power. Honda's new electronic differential for the Acura TL is so sophisticated that it approaches few years' ago Prodrive active differentials in sophistication. BMW reserves the M-Differential merely for the M3-series, and for 4WD differentials it relies on outsourced suppliers (Haldex?). And the Fujitsu-TEN/Denso Navigation on the newer Lexus systems are regarded as way superior to the VDO-Dayton (Siemens) systems used in many German cars. Regarding the suspension and the way the cars are `made' and other engineering questions, Japanese car companies have had to make their own technologies in house with consulting experience from 3rd parties, while the Germans have increasingly turned to Robert Bosch for solutions, almost totally forgoing basic R&D on their vehicles. Hybrid technology for the indpendent Japanese car manufacturers like Honda and Toyota (power return, power storage, in wheel motors) is so far ahead of the Germans that the Germans and Americans are now scrambling to catch up, and in the USA you can see that Hybrid technology is the BOMB and everybody is buying the new Hybrid cars that the US companies are so worried but the Germans are complacent still, but waking up now. All the time they have given us useless solutions like a pure Hydrogen engine (BMW 750 modify to accept hydrogen fuel) without telling us that a pure hydrogen economy is about 10 years away. So this merely outlines my objection to the thinking that German cars have better engineering than the Japanese. Don't look at the country, look at the facts please.
One last thing - YOU ARE PERFECTLY CORRECT, GERMAN ENGINEERING IS NOT CHEAP. After visiting several car factories and speaking at length to the factory people, and after a few loss making flirtations with German technology companies in a personal and corporate capacity, I understand a little now, perhaps too little, but here is my understanding... if not wrong:
1) German law makes it almost impossible to fire useless employees - employee compensation is large.
2) German law makes it almost to hire new employees because they can't be easily fired.
3) German law is community centric, at the expense of the corporations.
4) Germany has a LOT of holidays
5) Germany has the one of the shortest working hours in the world
6) German engineers get paid a lot for what they do compared to any other country in the world bar USA.
So, German technology is NOT CHEAP, perhaps THE MOST EXPENSIVE TECHNOLOGY IN THE WORLD, but for the wrong reasons. They are expensive because of their system, not the quality or quantum of their technology.
To be honest, at the back of my mind, the more I visit them, the more I have severe objections at the back of my mind every time I consider German cars - because when I pay to make BMW more profitable, I don't mind as much as paying so much for the welfare coffers of the German worker. That, sir, I cannot stand, because I'm not even paying to make my choice of German manufacturer richer and therefore more able to invest in better and better technology, but I'm paying the price to make the German worker's welfare coffers bigger. This does not benefit me at all.
Do you agree what is said about German cars, and which do you prefer - German or Japanese? (I think it is obvious but after reading these, I'm a little more doubtful of what I'm loving)
http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?t=1199001&page=1&pp=15 (Be mindful that because it is a Singaporean forum, some terms used are Singlish)
The engineering of Japanese cars now meets or exceeds the Germans in reliability and sophistication often. Just take the new IS250 engine and compare it with the BMW 325 engine. The IS250 engine has dual fuel supply - direct and indirect fuel injection, with infinitely variable timing on both intakes and exhaust, with better fuel consumption and more power than the BMW 2.5L 6 in line. The BMW boasts dual VANOS and Valvetronic and better materials, but worse fuel consumption and down in power. Honda's new electronic differential for the Acura TL is so sophisticated that it approaches few years' ago Prodrive active differentials in sophistication. BMW reserves the M-Differential merely for the M3-series, and for 4WD differentials it relies on outsourced suppliers (Haldex?). And the Fujitsu-TEN/Denso Navigation on the newer Lexus systems are regarded as way superior to the VDO-Dayton (Siemens) systems used in many German cars. Regarding the suspension and the way the cars are `made' and other engineering questions, Japanese car companies have had to make their own technologies in house with consulting experience from 3rd parties, while the Germans have increasingly turned to Robert Bosch for solutions, almost totally forgoing basic R&D on their vehicles. Hybrid technology for the indpendent Japanese car manufacturers like Honda and Toyota (power return, power storage, in wheel motors) is so far ahead of the Germans that the Germans and Americans are now scrambling to catch up, and in the USA you can see that Hybrid technology is the BOMB and everybody is buying the new Hybrid cars that the US companies are so worried but the Germans are complacent still, but waking up now. All the time they have given us useless solutions like a pure Hydrogen engine (BMW 750 modify to accept hydrogen fuel) without telling us that a pure hydrogen economy is about 10 years away. So this merely outlines my objection to the thinking that German cars have better engineering than the Japanese. Don't look at the country, look at the facts please.
One last thing - YOU ARE PERFECTLY CORRECT, GERMAN ENGINEERING IS NOT CHEAP. After visiting several car factories and speaking at length to the factory people, and after a few loss making flirtations with German technology companies in a personal and corporate capacity, I understand a little now, perhaps too little, but here is my understanding... if not wrong:
1) German law makes it almost impossible to fire useless employees - employee compensation is large.
2) German law makes it almost to hire new employees because they can't be easily fired.
3) German law is community centric, at the expense of the corporations.
4) Germany has a LOT of holidays
5) Germany has the one of the shortest working hours in the world
6) German engineers get paid a lot for what they do compared to any other country in the world bar USA.
So, German technology is NOT CHEAP, perhaps THE MOST EXPENSIVE TECHNOLOGY IN THE WORLD, but for the wrong reasons. They are expensive because of their system, not the quality or quantum of their technology.
To be honest, at the back of my mind, the more I visit them, the more I have severe objections at the back of my mind every time I consider German cars - because when I pay to make BMW more profitable, I don't mind as much as paying so much for the welfare coffers of the German worker. That, sir, I cannot stand, because I'm not even paying to make my choice of German manufacturer richer and therefore more able to invest in better and better technology, but I'm paying the price to make the German worker's welfare coffers bigger. This does not benefit me at all.
Do you agree what is said about German cars, and which do you prefer - German or Japanese? (I think it is obvious but after reading these, I'm a little more doubtful of what I'm loving)
, but i should be born in some other world, under some other name to prefere Japanese over German.
