S-Class (W222/C217/A217) [Spyshots] Mercedes-Benz 2014 W222 S-Class (Spy pics & info)

[Sayyaaf]

Hydrolic or air suspensions leak. There is no bulletproof setup whatsoever. A W221 that belongs to my friend leaked and eventually the suspension dropped since no gas lift inside the reservoir. Not at high millage but it is a matter of time that a ceil let go and your driving style plays a big role too. If you take bumps at high speed, it means you are exposing the suspension to sudden high pressure that will put some pressure against the suspension specially the reservoir. Sometimes the damper also get stuck if a boot is worn and started to collect dust. Basicly just like a normal coil setup except steel coils live longer (being metal) and dampers are kinda more prteccted if stiffness rate of coil is high

 

[klier]

Well ABC is about a decade and a half old, and none of the competition has done better.

So don't bet on it

BMW doesn't want a car that feels like it's floating.
VAG will copy though, of course.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

y and i am afraid that i cant afford than the "extra expensive gimmicks" which you have to add probably to the new higher price. i m sure i will hear, why buy s-class when u can afford it, well i need for the chauffeur service, and its a question of rentability. and i cant come around with a low equipped s-class, probably with cloth seats? my limit is at 100.00 €
where i need at least leather, navigation system and comfort seats (for long trips)...

I know what you mean. My first W221 (S320 CDI Standard wheelbase) was at about € 90.000. My last W221 (S350 cdi standard wheelbase) was already € 100.000. +11% in 3 years time, same model. I'm affraid it will be well over € 100.000 to have a nice equiped S-Klasse W222. With leather, navi, comfortseats, sunroof, Burmesterspeakers, drivingassistence package etc. I'm expecting a price of € 115.000 al least.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

got now 300k on them but they made problems already with 150-180k kms...
u can buy guarantee, but the inspection in germany is very expensive on these cars escpecially when u go 90k a year
thats about 3-4 inspections (between 300 and 1000 per inspection) a year.. so in 3 year good n8- plus u have to pay
the guarantee, i think the extended guarantee is a guarantee where u have to pay a part of the repair costs

I drove my first W221 250.000 km, the second one 200.000 km and had, fortunately, never any problems with Airmatic/air-suspension. With current CLS after just only 73.000 km, also no problems.
Silkeye, are you driving your cars yourself or do you have drivers employed? But then again, I think your "Angestellten" wouldn't be driving like an idiot with guests in the back.

 

[Human]

BMW doesn't want a car that feels like it's floating.
VAG will copy though, of course.

ABC

I honestly think, being a steel coil - manipulated damping via oil (thus hydraulic) and a adaptive damper/shock absorber integrated. The damping and rebound characteristics can be tuned to specific needs i.e CL AMG with ABC will be a firmer car than say a normal S550 with ABC.

I mean why did DAIMLER made the ABC struts with a STEEL COIL? The reaction time of a steel coil is definitely much faster on damping and rebound.THUS it could be a superb damper setup for the next 7 Series IMO

With AIRMATIC however I agree, BMW could not find any use for on the front suspension as the direct turn in etc. will not be up to their handling standards (they do however use something similar on the rear axle of the 7er, X5 & X6 merely for it's SELF LEVELLING capabilities)

I am far from being a engineer so any comments is welcome!

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[Ham8]

First pictures from second presentation
http://www.autocentrum.pl/prezentac...dz-nowej-s-klasy-mercedes-klasa-s/zdjecia/24/
http://5komma6.mercedes-benz-passion.com/erste-begegnung-mit-der-neuen-s-klasse/

 

[Executivesedan]

S-Class AMG spotted near Signal Hill Capetown.

Looks way better with camo imo.

 

[mini_cooper4]

LOL...Mini, I simply don't understand what you're getting at and what point you are trying to make beyond speculation as you certainly haven't provided any evidence or other forms of support to your claim that other manufacturers are working on similar IF NOT BETTER suspension systems. The questions I asked were pretty straight forward. Up until now I wasn't doubting your claim but was simply interested in knowing who (BMW or AUDI or other?) was working on what, and you appeared to have some information on the topic.

Without any evidence to support what you are saying, is akin to me saying Mercedes is working on a spaceship that will be similar to IF NOT BETTER than NASA's.

Anyhow end of topic on that. There's no point arguing.

That's very interesting Silkeye. I always assumed they would have had airmatic bulletproof by now. I wonder where manufacturers will draw the line on these 'innovations' and 'luxuries' that would simply become uneconomical to repair when the car is 5-6 years old. The lifecycle of these cars will become significantly shorter, unless people will be happy driving them around with numerous mechanical and electrical issues.

No, don't expect me to quote conversations just for the sake of the forum. The only prove will be when it becomes a reality. Until then it's your choice in what to believe Both VAG and BMW... more electric, less hydraulic. A new concept of the ABC - modern one, might have not much in common but the goal is the same. Who will come with it at all or who will be first... we'll see

 

[LaArtist]

BMW doesn't want a car that feels like it's floating.
VAG will copy though, of course.

Then they shouldn't have copied the Air suspension..

As the ABC is way more adaptive and sporty!

 

[LaArtist]

Dafuq is this? did they FINALLY redesign the industry standard ugly ass 100 year old belt clip?

http://www.autocentrum.pl/prezentac...dz-nowej-s-klasy-mercedes-klasa-s/zdjecia/28/

EDit:

Here you can see the seats with 2 clips, the old and the new one.. Im confused!

http://www.autocentrum.pl/prezentac...dz-nowej-s-klasy-mercedes-klasa-s/zdjecia/29/

 

[Sonder]

Dafuq is this? did they FINALLY redesign the industry standard ugly ass 100 year old belt clip?

http://www.autocentrum.pl/prezentac...dz-nowej-s-klasy-mercedes-klasa-s/zdjecia/28/

EDit:

Here you can see the seats with 2 clips, the old and the new one.. Im confused!

http://www.autocentrum.pl/prezentac...dz-nowej-s-klasy-mercedes-klasa-s/zdjecia/29/

the better looking is reserved for the 'airbag seatbelt'

 

[LaArtist]

^I shall then have the airbag seat belt from this day on.

I hate the belt clips on all cars!!!( i know..i have issues)

 

[Huckfeldt]

^I shall then have the airbag seat belt from this day on.

I hate the belt clips on all cars!!!( i know..i have issues)

No, you are not the only one. i know two people with that same issues and I am one of them. So at least that makes us three belt clip haters LOL. And that new clip is so AWESOMEEEEE ! Something I expect to see in a next gen Aston but here it is.

 

[LaArtist]

^ah im not insane thnx

 

[Merc1]

This is interesting about ABC. I personally don't see it is as such a major innovation anymore, especially being hydraulic based. GM, Ferrari and others have achieved a better compromise IMO with their magnetorheological shock absorber system. Much cheaper and gives a great handling/ride compromise. Car and Driver, who loves the BMW 3-Series, will tell you that the new Cadillac ATS is the best handling car in the class, in part due to this system. That is extremely high praise.

Mercedes' ABC is great on heavy cars like the S-Class and CL to keep the body upright and ride unruffled, but the system is just too slow, numb and cumbersome to fit to a sports car like the SLS and if the SL was lighter it wouldn't need it either. Now the next development of it, Magic Body Control should be much faster reacting, but it probably won't do anything for feel, which isn't needed in a S-Class, but is IMO in a car like the SL. Mercedes is suspension wizzard when it comes to ride but not handling or feel. There is a supreme sense of control at moderate speeds, but high-speed handling isn't a Mercedes thing, never has been. Now just sheer stability it is best at, in a straight line at 120-130 mph I haven't driven anything more stable than a Mercedes. A 911 once scared me to death because it felt like the front end was trying to come off the road!

Back in the day before electronics, the old W124 300E gave the best ride/handling compromise of any Mercedes, IMO. It had a truly supple ride, but could be driven aggressively. Yes the body roll was still there but the car was balanced and had decent grip for its day.

ABC and Magic Body Control are going to be a boon for the S/S Coupe and the S group of cars, but IMO it would be a waste to fit it to the next E. Airmatic should be used there and the AMG cars needs to be free of Airmatic up front like they are now, IMO.

EDIT: ABC isn't even standard on the SL550/500 anymore, a regular steel suspension is. If they're moving away from this system on the SL, I don't see it being on the next E. Mercedes even stopped offering Airmatic as an option on the E-Class in the U.S. Now none of them have it here.

M

 

[LaArtist]

^Yeah that is a huge generalization..

AMG cars today are great handing

Even normal MBs are muuuch better than before..but yes they are geared towards comfort as it should be

 

[Human]

This is interesting about ABC. I personally don't see it is as such a major innovation anymore, especially being hydraulic based. GM, Ferrari and others have achieved a better compromise IMO with their magnetorheological shock absorber system. Much cheaper and gives a great handling/ride compromise. Car and Driver, who loves the BMW 3-Series, will tell you that the new Cadillac ATS is the best handling car in the class, in part due to this system. That is extremely high praise.

Mercedes' ABC is great on heavy cars like the S-Class and CL to keep the body upright and ride unruffled, but the system is just too slow, numb and cumbersome to fit to a sports car like the SLS and if the SL was lighter it wouldn't need it either. Now the next development of it, Magic Body Control should be much faster reacting, but it probably won't do anything for feel, which isn't needed in a S-Class, but is IMO in a car like the SL. Mercedes is suspension wizzard when it comes to ride but not handling or feel. There is a supreme sense of control at moderate speeds, but high-speed handling isn't a Mercedes thing, never has been. Now just sheer stability it is best at, in a straight line at 120-130 mph I haven't driven anything more stable than a Mercedes. A 911 once scared me to death because it felt like the front end was trying to come off the road!

Back in the day before electroinics, the old W124 300E gave the best ride/handling compromise of any Mercedes, IMO. It had a truly supple ride, but could be driven aggressively. Yes the body roll was still there but the car was balanced and had decent grip for its day.

ABC and Magic Body Control are going to be a boon for the S/S Coupe and the S group of cars, but IMO it would be a waste to fit it to the next E. Airmatic should be used there and the AMG cars needs to be free of Airmatic up front like they are now, IMO.

EDIT: ABC isn't even standard on the SL550/500 anymore, a regular steel suspension is. If they're move away from this system on the SL, I don't see it being on the next E. Mercedes even stopped offering Airmatic as an option on the E-Class in the U.S. Now none of them have it here.

M

Please do read my reply to Klier (with the ABC video) on this page.I believe in ABC for the 7er and maybe the X7 (if it will ever see the light of day). For heavier cars that carry more passangers, load and kit it's ingenious. Also as explained I believe it's could be tailor-tuned towards a sportier damp and rebound for BMW's needs etc.

WHY I ask the same as you do, don't more manufacturers adapt to magnetorheological shock absorber is beyond comprehention. Esepcially for BMW, that does not develop their struts and dampers inhouse, just as they use ZF gearboxes. With M-B it's abviously the opposite (as far as my knowledge goes they are the most inhouse orientated OEM in the world) hence my disbelief that the base A-class has a Renault engine...grrrr (story and discussion for the A/B/CLA thread)

Even reading reviews of the Panamera's equipped with PASM with Air suspension (a system that was developed @ such high cost) does not deliver anyway near ride comfort levels as one would expect. So why use and develop it? Only for the self levelling and lowering @ speed capabilities? OR for "bragging rights" and offering it as an option to make more profit.
Yes, maybe we my never know, but ending with this and as you explained - it's the less complicated, inexpensive and more logical systems i.e. magnetorheological shocks that delivers on their promise.

 

[Merc1]

Please do read my reply to Klier (with the ABC video) on this page.I believe in ABC for the 7er and maybe the X7 (if it will ever see the light of day). For heavier cars that carry more passangers, load and kit it's ingenious. Also as explained I believe it's could be tailor-tuned towards a sportier damp and rebound for BMW's needs etc.

WHY I ask the same as you do, don't more manufacturers adapt to magnetorheological shock absorber is beyond comprehention. Esepcially for BMW, that does not develop their struts and dampers inhouse, just as they use ZF gearboxes. With M-B it's abviously the opposite (as far as my knowledge goes they are the most inhouse orientated OEM in the world) hence my disbelief that the base A-class has a Renault engine...grrrr (story and discussion for the A/B/CLA thread)

Even reading reviews of the Panamera's equiped with PASM with Air suspension (a system that was developed @ such high cost) does not deliver anyway near ride comfort levels as one would expect. So why use and develop it? Only for the self levelling and lowering @ speed capabilities? OR for "bragging rights" and offering it as an option to make moer profit.
Yes, maybe we my never know, but ending with this and as you explained - it's the less complicated, inexpensive and more logical systems i.e. magnetorheological shocks that delivers on their promise.

I'm sure it is pride thing with both BMW and Mercedes. They aren't going to admit that others have a better solution to anything, especially by installing it on their cars. We're probably only scratching the surface though. Mercedes' 7-speed transmission has been outdone by the ZF 8-Speed, seems like it would same tons of $$ to just switch, but thy aren't lol. They'll try to outdo it with their 9-speeder next year or whenever it comes out.

M

 

[Mick Briesgau]

^^ Let's not forget, that the normal steel suspension of MB is already at a very high comfortlevel

 

[Human]

I'm sure it is pride thing with both BMW and Mercedes. They aren't going to admit that others have a better solution to anything, especially by installing it on their cars. We're probably only scratching the surface though. Mercedes' 7-speed transmission has been outdone by the ZF 8-Speed, seems like it would same tons of $$ to just switch, but thy aren't lol. They'll try to outdo it with their 9-speeder next year or whenever it comes out.

M

And yet I for one still cannot wait for MBC. Luckily if you buy into an S-class such things does make perfect sense

^^ Let's not forget, that the normal steel suspension of MB is already at a very high comfortlevel

indeed, always has been. Have driven a CL with ABC (for comparison) and its was great, Yet, nothing beats the ride comfort of a W126 S-class on a farm style gravel road, I know that for a fact Father-in-law's 380SE on a bad gravel road to his farm, eats the road and ruts for breakfast!