1 Series [Spyshots] BMW 1-Series Sedan

[Rainer271]

I'm sure the car will make its way.

 

[KiwiRob]

RWD and superior driving dynamics are the two core reasons (maybe the only reasons!) that I would buy a BMW.

When RWD was not my top criterion, I bought a Volvo, which was a very nice place to sit in. But it doesn't satisfy me as much as it should.

That's you, not the vast majority of people BMW think will buy this car, I don't get how you can't get this, stop thinking what you want start thinking like BMW is, how can I make a saloon which will appeal to a lot of people which I can build for a low price and sell high. It's a business decision.

I replaced an 09 3er Msport Touring with a 10 V70 R Design, for use as a family car the Volvo was streets ahead, for road trips the Volvo was a much nicer place to sit, it was also a far superior vehicle in snow, and better resale value (in Norway), for what we wanted it to do the Volvo was the better car. I also tested a 5 series but again it's a crappy winter car, the weekend we had it we had 20cm of snow, the 5 series on spiked winter tyres couldn't get up the access road to the main road, whereas my FWD Mini Clubman had no problems with. BMW were unlucky if it wasn't for the snow I would have ordered one.

 

[bmwownage]

^well that's what a BMW should be, lots of people don't care, but have you ever thought about why those people chose a BMW instead of anything else? i mean where is the difference between the 3series and the C class? does it all come down to the stuff we see, which has nothing to do with a personal preference of a brand? I guess a huge part of someone choosing a BMW over anything else is its reputation of being sporty, driving pleasure, EVEN if that specific person just drives it like a Toyota Camry and has no feeling. Reasonable right? i don't think there is any material difference between different makes now in terms of size or quality or the visual stuff. Now, if that's reasonable, what BMW is doing with these FWDs is simply milking their success from the past, and not doing much for the future.
For someone who doesn't care, they won't care - who cares if BMW goes bankrupt and get bought out by VAG or Daimler? But those who care, have a passion for the brand, we want to brand to continue its tradition and do what it has been good at, which i don't see a reason will be more risky or less successful than making FWD cars in the mainstream lineup.

By the way, a E46 (stock), looks like this: - good old days.

with this stance:

 

[bimmerjph]

What?!!! It's not April 1.... I know what's going on. Scott's account has been hacked!

No it's possible. UKL in RWD format might be shit, but it is possible.

 

[SF Dede]

No it's possible. UKL in RWD format might be shit, but it is possible.

How does "adaptable" becomes "shit?" The whole concept of a platform is that it is by definition adaptable. But to your implied point, how many compromises are made and at what cost?

Me, I am excited about the long term possibility of something smaller than a 3er that is RWD. I am pretty sure that I'd like it more than FWD with no option of RWD, but hey, I used to drive a Cooper S and still love it. What do I know? I might just settle. But now there's hope.

 

[KiwiRob]

No it's possible. UKL in RWD format might be shit, but it is possible.

The number of platforms that I can think of that have been used as FWD and RWD is tiny, the Triumph Toledo/1500/Dolomite, the Imprezza/GT86 and the Chrysler LH/LX are about it. So I doubt BMW would do it.

 

[DblPen]

I also tested a 5 series but again it's a crappy winter car, the weekend we had it we had 20cm of snow, the 5 series on spiked winter tyres couldn't get up the access road to the main road, whereas my FWD Mini Clubman had no problems with. BMW were unlucky if it wasn't for the snow I would have ordered one.

Either you are a liar or a lousy driver

 

[Mr Robert]

Either you are a liar or a lousy driver

Well, it is hard to drive in the snow if you aren't used to it, but with a modern car and proper winter tyres, there should never be a problem with that little snow.

 

[DblPen]

How can 5 series be a "crappy" winter car? Do you realise how many people drive them in regions that has a lot of snow? What, do they all crash or travel at 40km/h? Crappy winter car might be ferrari or lambo, but 5 series? Really? I never had any snow related problems in my e39, neither any of my friends that drive BMW's. Only time i hear that RWD in snow is a death trap is from people who drive fwd or awd.

 

[Mr Robert]

Well, as of the E39 you can't fail at driving in the winter (with correct tyres), you can try to fail, but it will be hard.

On a related note, BMW models gets the nod from Swedish magazines winter after winter* for delivering the best cars for driving in the damn snow...

*) Last time I checked was a couple of years ago but not much has changed.

 

[SCOTT27]

Hey I drive a "5 Series" in E61 , F10M and F11 format and in the winter too. Especially on compulsory winter tyres and have never had a problem in either. A untouched snowfield in an empty car park means I have never had a dull time ever...

 

[Mr Robert]

Hey I drive a "5 Series" in E61 , F10M and F11 format and in the winter too. Especially on compulsory winter tyres and have never had a problem in either. A untouched snowfield in an empty car park means I have never had a dull time ever...

Well, you if anyone should know the simple joys of BMW:ing the winter away, car park by car park

 

[DblPen]

Plus we all see how many testing BMW do with their cars in snowy locations, I mean they are not doing crash testing there

 

[Mr Robert]

Plus we all see how many testing BMW do with their cars in snowy locations, I mean they are not doing crash testing there

I guess there's a lot of views from the '80:s on how an (yes, an) RWD car will behave in the white shit that'll still surface from time to time.

 

[KiwiRob]

Well, it is hard to drive in the snow if you aren't used to it, but with a modern car and proper winter tyres, there should never be a problem with that little snow.

RWD and snow isn't anywhere near as good as FWD and snow, anyone living with snow knows that. I've seen on many occasions people in RWD cars getting stuck on uphill bits of road with FWD cars passing them by, including myself in a C Class and 3 series, plus the loaner 5 series.

 

[KiwiRob]

Hey I drive a "5 Series" in E61 , F10M and F11 format and in the winter too. Especially on compulsory winter tyres and have never had a problem in either. A untouched snowfield in an empty car park means I have never had a dull time ever...

Try getting up my access road which is unsalted and never gritted, often icey in the morning, or with a dumping of fresh deep snow with a RWD car, I had problems, many enighbours have problems, but I've never failed in a FWD car. You hear people in the morning taking a long run up then sitting and spinning tyres unable to get to the top, these are Norwegians who have the most comprehensive winter driving tests before you can get a license then most people, it snows a lot here, more than in Germany, they know who to drive in snow.

Agreed carparks are fun in a RWD car in snow, snow and ice hill starts are not.

 

[Mars1965]

RWD and snow isn't anywhere near as good as FWD and snow, anyone living with snow knows that. I've seen on many occasions people in RWD cars getting stuck on uphill bits of road with FWD cars passing them by, including myself in a C Class and 3 series, plus the loaner 5 series.

Never had any problems after fitted my winter tires.

 

[klier]

Only time i hear that RWD in snow is a death trap is from people who drive fwd or awd.

Bingo, time to end it here.

KiwiRob can't drive in a RWD car and thinks the rest can't either.

 

[DblPen]

RWD and snow isn't anywhere near as good as FWD and snow, anyone living with snow knows that. I've seen on many occasions people in RWD cars getting stuck on uphill bits of road with FWD cars passing them by, including myself in a C Class and 3 series, plus the loaner 5 series.

Theoretically, FWD should be a better car in snow, since usually their weight isnt balanced well enough and most of it is on the front axle, but practically im taking that balance and less understeer over fwd's 5% more traction. Remember that most of the traction comes from tires, so if someone is stuck, its either because they are unlucky (you know that fwd gets stuck too?),have bad tires or because of their driving, got in the position to be stuck.
And speaking of your access road, if i understand correctly you have to go up in it, so rwd should have more traction there because it is pushing car up, and not pulling car up like in fwd?

 

[KiwiRob]

And speaking of your access road, if i understand correctly you have to go up in it, so rwd should have more traction there because it is pushing car up, and not pulling car up like in fwd?

Nope it doesn't work like that at all. The C class and 3 series I have owned are very light in the rear end, so there is no weight in the back to push the tyres down to get them to grip. My neighbour has a RWD Hilux ute, he doesn't use it in winter unless he's got the bed full of additional weight, it can't get up the access road.

I'll go with what I know and I know through experience and watching watching others fail that FWD is far far superior to RWD. BTW all the cars I have owned since moving to the snow have been new, have had the best snow tyres available, both RWD's had spiked tyres, something I have found unnecessary since we moved to FWD cars. The Volvo V70 has so far been the best vehicle I've used in the snow, we never managed to get it stuck, the only time we have stuck a FWD car was my wofes Touran last year when we grounded it in too deep snow.