7 Series (G11) [Spy shots] BMW 7er (G11) Spy Pics & Info

[klier]

^ He is stating some simple facts, hardly a sneer.

 

[Busty]

I always had the impression it was AvH who designed the E65. CB was Chief of Design. A groundbreaking one beyond any doubt.

 

[SCOTT27]

I totally agree, with exception of your next to last sentence. Why do you always make a sneer at an other brand, this time Mercedes-Benz? That was completely unnecessary.

Whether you think it is unnecessary but it is entire relevant because it sums up the entire period of the Chris Bangle era at BMW. It is the by phrase to which many in Munich use against any anti-Bangle commentary in regards to success and that was the true success. BMW became no 1 because they challenged via Bangle and his design team who - let me just put this out there when Bangle was scoping for potential targets to design the next BMWs he was selecting the students who were doing entirely different things from conventional cars, Bangle was looking for more than just conventional design which is why you see so much avant-garde shapes and conceptions within a vehicle. It was an artistic interpretation of problem solving.
That is the Bangle legacy at BMW. It led the entire company to challenge conventional thinking and take risks unheard of in not only the auto industry but within industry itself. Car design became cool again , car design became a culture and we included the customer which is why BMW done a lot of design promotion and still do because I find and you might say also that design is fascinating especially when you talk to designers and here the reasons for this and that.

I can say that no one will ever do what Bangle done before because there is too much risk and markets tend to be more volatile than most. No one will ever do what Bangle directed. Think of yourself being lucky to actually witness a very exciting and transitional period within the industry and if not design itself. Because no one else will ever do this again.

 

[SCOTT27]

^ He is stating some simple facts, hardly a sneer.

Klier , you are in a good position as of myself having had a Bangle era car such as the E63 645i and my own BMW M5 Touring E61. How did you choose that car? Was the design a major factor in choosing the E63?

 

[klier]

Yes, I remember being in awe unlike ever before when I saw the E63 for the first time. I will never forget that feeling, which will likely never return. It was just perfect for the Zeitgeist.

 

[SCOTT27]

Yes this is correct. This was where E60 was heading with the heavier rear trunk aperture from the E65. Early proposals for the E90 had something similar. I remember the final proposals for the E60 and why this one was chosen.
This one stood out more amongst the others which were more like progressive E39s but against the above proposal they were mundane and just blended in to the background.
The above just stood out. It was the perfect choice. Sadly its designer died of Leukaemia before the car was frozen for production and David never got to see the final production model.

 

[SCOTT27]

Sorry, but no. I feel like I've seen a photo of it somewhere book/magazine, but cannot find it anymore. I believe a hard drive that failed (and wasn't backed up) had it. That photo definitely had to be from 1998 and probably before the engineering side got to it. I would ask EnI or SCOTT27 about that. I understood from both that design model and AvD's January 1998 sketch, clearly why Bangle choose AvD's initial sketches in 1997-98 and promised to fight for him.

The end result in that grainy photo (with Bangle inspecting a 1:1 E65 design model) I posted in the F20 LCI thread, is probably around the final sign-off of the E65's production design. Thankfully the G11 will not suffer from packaging problems again.

There was a lot going in with that period , we had the Rover millstone , MINI was progressing but we were pushing a lot of interesting ideas as you can see from my marketing notes. All those missing numbers for project codes are filled it just that many do not see the light of day but they do exist. I will not give the game away but in 2016 and the 100th anniversary you will see some things although that are old have never seen the light of day outside Munich and the gates of BMW. As you can see FWD was never new it has just been made a reality.

E40 Vier+Sechs K-Nachfolger (Projekt) Prototyp

E41 noch nicht bekannt Prototyp

E42 Vierzylinder kleiner 3er mit Frontantrieb Prototyp

E43 noch nicht bekannt Prototyp

E44 Sechszylinder BMW-Van-Projekt Prototyp

E45 noch nicht bekannt Prototyp

E46/2 Vier+Sechs 3er-Coupé Serie 3/99-

E46/2S Sechszylinder M3-Coupé Serie 04/00

E46/2C Vier+Sechs viersitziges Cabriolet Serie 3/00-

E46/2CS Sechszylinder M3-Cabriolet Serie 2001

E46/3 Vier+Sechs 3er-Touring Serie 9/99-

E46/4 Vier+Sechs K-Nachfolger für E36/4 Serie 4/98 -

E46/5 Vier+Sechs 3-türiger Compact Serie ab 10/01

E46/5-S Vierzylinder Z2-Coupé ? 2002

E47 noch nicht bekannt Prototyp

E48 Vier+Sechs Frontantrieb-3er, kleiner Prototyp Rover?

E49 Vier+Sechs Frontantrieb-3er, größer Prototyp Rover?




E50-E59.

M-Code MotortypFahrzeugbeschreibungEntwicklungsstufe Zeitraum

E50 Vierzylinder Nachfolger für Mini Prototyp Rover

E51 Zwölfzylinder Exclusives V12-Coupé Prototyp gestoppt

E52 Achtzylinder Aluminium-Roadster/Coupé(Z8) Serie 2000

E53 Sechs+Acht Geländewagen SAV (X5) Serie 1999

E53S Zwölfzylinder X5 mit McLaren-Motor Prototyp 2000

E54 noch nicht bekannt Prototyp

E55 Achtzylinder langer X5-SAV Prototyp 2000

E56 Vier+Sechs Frontantrieb-Plattform Prototyp 2006

E57 noch nicht bekannt Prototyp

E58 noch nicht bekannt Prototyp

E59 Sechs+Acht 6er-Coupé Prototyp

E59/2 Sechs+Acht 6er-Cabriolet Prototyp

 

[SCOTT27]

If you feeling nostalgic. How things have progressed. Including male grooming and technology.

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[lukeswiss]

^Anyone here driven an 8 Series ?

I think they're cool, but extremely expensive in maintenance.

 

[rollo]

If I may add, and I am not an expert.
I would not say they returned to their roots, they just used the bangle design as a new normal and just tweaked on it. We still have the flamed surfaces albeit to a moderated degree.
For it to be a pile of crap, there will have to be just about every car design that distance itself from the lines/surfaces that have come epitomise Chris' design language; but what we are witnessing is an integration of the concept in majority of the cars/vehicles that I see,

Take a look at the evolution of the 5 series as an example, which car looks out of context/different? It is the E60.

 

[klier]

Guys, we really have to get back to the G11 now.

 

[SCOTT27]

Just one last thing.
Can you identify something here that has turned out differently in production?

Here is another one from my notes. The 1st of 2 attempts but has made it lucky on the third attempt.

X7 Acht+Zwölf Großer Geländewagen Serie 2004

 

[maragulon]

taillights and tailgate?

 

[klier]

Just one last thing.
Can you identify something here that has turned out differently in production?

Boot lid and rear lights. Final ones are better. Now find us some pics of G11 somewhere in the offices please Scott.

 

[bimmerjph]

Yes this is correct. This was where E60 was heading with the heavier rear trunk aperture from the E65. Early proposals for the E90 had something similar. I remember the final proposals for the E60 and why this one was chosen.
This one stood out more amongst the others which were more like progressive E39s but against the above proposal they were mundane and just blended in to the background.
The above just stood out. It was the perfect choice. Sadly its designer died of Leukaemia before the car was frozen for production and David never got to see the final production model.

Scott, do you have any pictures of the original concept that AvH had for the E65. We all know that what ended up being produced wasn't what AvH intended it to be, I'm just really curious if any pictures exist of the original concept.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

This was the period when BMW took the worlds no 1 premium manufacturer from Mercedes-Benz so Bangle and co. Did something right with the visual appeal of that era.

Or Mercedes did something wrong.

BMW became no 1 because they challenged via Bangle and his design team

People don't buy cars based entirely on design. You're attributing BMW's ascension to No.1 purely on the design, when it could have been DESPITE the design.

 

[SCOTT27]

Or Mercedes did something wrong.



People don't buy cars based entirely on design. You're attributing BMW's ascension to No.1 purely on the design, when it could have been DESPITE the design.

I
My argument is that at this period BMW product at this point was heavily driven by design, there was no escaping it and no denying it, this was that generation.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I
My argument is that at this period BMW product at this point was heavily driven by design, there was no escaping it and no denying it, this was that generation.

I actually like Bangle's designs.

 

[rollo]

I actually like Bangle's designs.

Well there goes the neighborhood! And I thought you had good taste Betty? This changes everything.......

 

[SCOTT27]

Scott, do you have any pictures of the original concept that AvH had for the E65. We all know that what ended up being produced wasn't what AvH intended it to be, I'm just really curious if any pictures exist of the original concept.

I do not have personal images no but I do remember the early interpretations which bar some details were left fairly intact but when brought into realistic situations the design was tweaked extensively to problem solve these issues.
This is very much true today. As designers get the brief and then they start to work on sketches at this point you are thinking about the visuals where engineering are developing the other aspects. Its once these specifications are known that what looks good on paper does not translate well to the engineering specification.

E65 has similar issues that had to be addressed by engineering and crash safety and legislation.
The front of the car was not as bulky and was more raked rear wards , the headlights were the same but because of the raked look of the front they were really pushed back into the metal. If you look at the E65 and the headlight base cut-outs you can see evidence of this raked appearance before it was tightened up.

The rear answers a question we answered recently with the Vision Future Luxury and a Peugeot of how to solve an issue that designers from other companies can address the issue with the same solution but then be accused of imitating each other when they neither had any knowledge of what each was doing.
E65 had an original trunk lid but the rear of the car was initially interpreted in the same way Volvo solved that issue with the step that defined the upper look of the car. A company like BMW could not do that because at the time everybody copied us and we had to remain original. The bootlid was born from trying to solve a design issue and address an increase in luggage capacity. Original ideas had E65 with a very sleek roofline that did make production but again packaging increased the height of the car so you have a rounded roofline and flat almost uncharacteristic body panels with no surface treatment bar an upper character line.

The E65 was conceived on the back of the then current Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse W140 which was much larger than the previous generation. This was the engineering specification to match the S-Klasse in terms of dimensions and packaging especially when at that time the car was to be a techno tour de force but needed that size to appeal to a growing market.