7 Series [Spy shots] BMW 7er (G11) Spy Pics & Info

[Mr. Mercedes]

Any chance of S-class sale figures @Wolfgang?

As of September 2014 Mercedes sold 75,391 S-class, which extrapolates to close to 100k sales for the full year.

W221
06 - 85,900
07 - 85,500
08 - 90,600
09 - 53,400
10 - 66,500
11 - 68,969
12 - 65,128

W222
13 -
14 - 100,000 approximately

I tried to collect the 7er sales numbers through the years in thousands:
96-52,5
97-51,4
98-47,9
99-43,5
00-40,3
01-33
02-50,9
03-57,9
04-47,7
05-50
06-50,2
07-44,4
08-38,8
09-52,7
10-65,8
11-68,8
12-59,2
13-56
The results are strongly connected with the release of each new generation of S class. I don't have time to extract the numbers of the S class but I know that in some years the 7er beat it (like in 2011). Oh, and I have my personal contribution in 98 and 04

S-class 7 -Series
06 - 85,900 50,200
07 - 85,500 44,400
08 - 90,600 38,800
09 - 53,400 52,700
10 - 66,500 65,800
11 - 68,969 68,800
12 - 65,128 59,200
13 - TBA 56,000
14 - 100,000 TBA

 

[bmwownage]

Quite disappointed from what I see.
Vs the F01, when that was released it had a few surprises, things were novel and original. It had a lot of presence, despite the perhaps overdone kidneys but it did its job in creating presence. F01's rear was also exciting, i like it most where the shoulder line "morphs" into the rear lights, the whole shape created presence too.
Whereas this one, nothing is original. I would've hoped the headlights to be less curvy and resemble a little more of the concept cars, and the tail lights looks very similar to the X4 (or any other BMWs really). It's not bad looking but it doesn't have that flagship presence in it. The F01 you look at it and you know it's the flagship, this one is a very low key. Greenhouse looks pretty much unchanged from the F01, i would've hoped for a sharper hofmeister kink, but looks like we'll have to wait another 7 years or so.

The interior - from what i see the only thing that they played with, is that chrome/titanium coloured line that flows around - that is the "only" feature that makes it look more modern than the F01. I think the F01 has a better overall layout, looks more clean and sorted.

 

[HUTSUTAo]

Definitely not an intentional leak. BMW is not happy about it. Communication for the product was supposed to start in summer time. This is way too early with crappy photos that don't help their case.

are they going to bring forward the launch then?

 

[GTA45E]

The interior is a major let down for me,

Everyone seems to be saying that. Myself included... In fact, I might have been the one who started the "3-Series like treatment" in the new 7er.
You have look really close to see the changes. I am convinced now that this is very subtle take on the current 7-Series with some not so obvious treatments. The center air-vents and switch gear are almost about the same shape, just grouped together in a more organized fashion.

The dashboard for instance has the same "spooned-out" driver oriented affect that originated on the E65. it was also carried over to the F01. Here as you can see by the outline is the same shape. The only difference is the designers seem to have chiseled out the bulk. The top half of the F01 dashboard, that gave it some interior presence or substance is "gone" in the new one. Notice how the air vents are all lined up, inlayed in the wood. In the F01, the air vents closest to the door, as well as the NAV screen were basically held up by the top "bulk" half of the dash.

I think the new one will give the visiual affect of modern "Danish mafia" furniture. Minimalistic and airy is the theme here and is something new for the 7-Series that might later be carried down the line. I am still going to hold opinions until this car breaks cover. Don`t judge this dude yet people.

 

[Sunny]

Sheesh, so many naysayers. And all putting the S-Class up on a pedestal like it's the second coming.

I am not ashamed to point out that I was one of the most vociferous appreciators of the newly revealed W222 - it was an evolutionary development of the S-Class theme building upon its forebear's opulent and ostentatious persona even further. And all was good at Mercedes Benz. The W222 combined a state of the art digital instrument panel and UI with a rather more classically appointed and trimmed interior. [I love the word "parlour" used by @hoffmeister_fan - it's most apt.]

But, you'd have to be an amoeba to not realise that the S-Class' design idiom is hardly progressive; instead, it is a retrospectively realised form - inside and out - and is embellished as such.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if the S-Class is retrospective then the 7er is progressive - not futuristic, mind you, the E65 knows all to well how that turned out for it - and incrementally realised for the F01 and G11 generations from a styling perspective.

The photographs are misleading or unflattering in my opinion. They do not adequately convey the additional 3D relief of the frontal DRG or the sharper, taughter surfacing of the flanks. The rear aspect is sensational without being overwrought or gauche. The interior photo is conveniently underexposed so as to disguise the contrast in trim and surfacing in what will prove to be a highly customer-customisable cabin from a colour, texture and trim perspective.

There's no way that a 7er is going to beat the S-Class at its own game - it never has and never will - and instead it needs to forge its own identity as the technological flagship for BMW without alienating ostensibly conservative buyers' tastes in the segment.

This progressive-yet-incremental approach also ensures sufficient room for differentiation from the rumoured higher tier model which will sit above the 7er.

I see no reason for people to take exception over this car, so now, let's wait for the official release pictures.

I don't get a chance often to disagree with Martin, but when I do I drink...

As you know, I am no fan of the W222 S class. And I definitely don't think it is the second coming it is made out to be by the faithful here. I would pick the teutonic A/S8's interior over debauchery of the S class 7 days a week, 365 days a year. My disappointment with the 7er is not that it is not S class. I am glad it is not and if anything I criticize it for mimicking the silly silver painted plastic trim inside. What I am disappointed with is that it does not bear any semblance to any of the brilliant concepts that BMW teases us with - not VFL, not granlusso. Which then makes me think the upper management/board/bean counters is just pissing away the awesome design talent they have. Which is quite sad.

 

[Cabasse0]

Maybe Also the management can't take any risk With a very profitable model and still have in mind the public réaction when the E65 was unveiled ... Despite i think decent volume figures

 

[bmwownage]

I don't think it's a "relative to S class" thing, even if it's better than the S class, it just means it has beaten the competition, doesn't mean it's great.
Ignoring the S class, which i think is very pleasing aesthestically but perhaps not what i would want for a "car", the G01's interior is hardly a step forward. If we further ignore those titanium/silver coloured stripes, it would look worse than the F01. The only "futuristic" or refreshing thing about this interior is those lines that runs along the front with nice sharp angles that perhaps replicate a bit of the concepts and the i8. Other than that, nothing is special about it. OK back in the E38 days we had the identical interior across 3,5,7 series, but those were really stunning designs while this isn't. They could go a further mile, a more sporty cockpit closer to the Panny (and i8) for example, instead of having a centre console with that ugly gap (between the aircon/hifi unit and the centre column) that i would only expect on a 3series and below. Without hoping for anything resemblence of the concepts, why not fill that space up with a storage compartment like the F01/E65? This is the flagship man.
E65 was special but everyone can say it was an ugly car (pre FL at least), it was way too controversial. Concepts of late, especially the interiors, all received very positive feedback from the public i would guess.

 

[martinbo]

I love it when you disagree with me @Sunny. I sit up, take note and think "what am I missing here?" I appreciate your input and thoughts, and yes, I too would like to see a more daring design language from BMW on both the exterior and interior fronts a la mentioned concepts.

Thing is, I see the 5er and 7er as bread-and-butter models for BMW in the vanilla vein extolled by EnI. They need to leave room - just as the did for 5er vs 6er - for more expressive design flourishes on the outside and inside. Let's be frank, it's not like any real criticism can be levelled at the 6er's interior which is surely one of the very best on the market considering its positioning and price point. No doubt BMW has to service its current market portfolio with the G11 whilst at the same time positioning it as the conservative offering in order to leave room for a grander and altogether more expressive flagship underpinned by its more straight-laced sibling.

In my humble opinion, it has to be this way; BMW's model strategy in the midrange must be a precursor to something bigger and grander beyond the 7 Series. Audi has to be considering a similar strategy with the A9 leaving the A8 as their conservative offering in the segment. I can only see it as being this way!

As for the delivery of bold and futuristic market-ready interiors which measure up to what we're seeing in concepts from BMW and Audi? I am sure that mass production / material application is simply not capable at this stage of making such quantum leap interiors a reality yet. Just look at how conventional in construction BMW's i8 interior turned out, in spite of its futuristically conceived lines. And that car, surely, has to be the most futuristic thing on the road right now so, clearly, there is no case for BMW's top brass not having the appetite (read that as balls, detractors) for leading edge progress.

Is BMW's delivery of such progress flawless? Of course not, in pioneering innovation even big corporates don't get it right (e.g. iDrive 1.0) first time round and embark on an incremental cycle of continuous improvement. There's no denying that iDrive is now the benchmark against which all other multimedia interfaces are judged.

 

[deity]

When the current 5er is compared to the 6er, few would consider the 5er to be a lifeless and lazy design. As a stand-alone product, the 5er is the very essence of BMW distilled into a beautifully designed package. Even when one compares it to the 6er, both have merits, despite the 6er being sportier and featuring a more expressive and opulent looking design. What I draw from this successfully executed sister relationship is that both cars can stand-out and be powerful designs in their own rights. There is absolutely no reason why the 7er needs to look (on the interior front at least) this vanilla to make room for the 9er.

Right now, the 7er is leaving way too much room for the 9er. There is no excuse (progression, vogue-ness, minimalism, leaving room, antidote) for an interior that looks like that. I think we could safely expect BMW to design an interior that keeps all the minimalist/sporty/antidote-ness together while leaving room for the 9er at the same time. The X5's interior is a perfect example of that. Beautiful progression from previous interior, upgraded materials, anti-dote to the "gaudiness," more "classic" MB design cues, while leaving room for the X9. None of this ugly centre console gap found in the 7er.

 

[martinbo]

For what it's worth, I don't view the hangdown console as being in any way a progressive or even futuristic element of a modern car's interior design. The hangdown console found its true raison d'être in the era where the proliferation of electronic gadgetry in cars resulted in interiors becoming festooned with buttons, knobs and displays creating in effect a second or extended instrument panel.

The need for an extensive hangdown console is less prevalent now in the age of convergence. Fascias can be simplified and space eaten up by hangdowns opened up for an airier and more spacious feel. The direction is clearly there and it's not just BMW going this route - Audi has clearly indicated its direction in this regard. In an age where your smart phone or phablet is an exercise in physical simplicity, now less is more more than ever. Sure, displays require extension but, as we've seen already, these displays can be raised to a more ergonomic line of sight rendering the hangdown console redundant.

 

[SKY]

In the same way I don´t think by any means this car is a catastrophe, nor looks as bad as some others think, I don´t buy the whole "it is not special enough to make room for the 9er". This strategy does not make any sense for any brand. When your flagship sedan comes out, you make everything to give the impression is the best of the best you as a brand can achieve. This was the message sent out by the F01 (and by any other flagship of any other brand). Yep, it was not ground breaking in terms of design (that front end could have been better), but it was a huge step on the right direction when compared to the E65. Then came the F10 5er. Was it less special to leave room for the F01? No. It was different, it was sportier, more dynamic, the proportions were slightly different and the interior was designed to be "almost there" compared to the 7er one. When you saw the 5er you had not the impression the car was designed to be less special than the F01. And exactly the same happened with the F30 when compared to the F10 (the F30 made some mistakes IMO, but does not have much to do with this).

I am sorry but this is all the standard marketing easy talk. First comes the traditional "you will be impressed with the next 7er, it will be this and that". When we see the car and it is not on par with the expectations, we have the traditional as well "but this is because there is something EVEN bigger comming". It´s the F20 front end debate all over again. The front of that car was crap. We said it loud and proud. But the marketing response was "no, it is such a bold design, you will appreciate it IRL". Facelift time comes, entirely new front end design. Because it was a crap of a design. BMW will never admit this car could have been better until the LCI comes or there is something better that makes it possible to admit the mistakes committed in the past.

I am on the side that the G30 5er is going to be the looker this car is not. But am 100% sure if the G30 5er is not on par with the expectations we will get the traditional "but that is because the 6er is comming and blablabla".

 

[martinbo]

Let's just wait for the official pics before we dismiss the G11 for not being special enough.

 

[klier]

Let's just wait for the official pics before we dismiss the G11 for not being special enough.

Love reading all the posts and theories, but this here is absolute key. Lots will change, even though we now think it's ugly and know how it looks.

 

[Human]

Love reading all the posts and theories, but this here is absolute key. Lots will change, even though we now think it's ugly and know how it looks.

Speak for yourself Dutchman

I like it, a-lot!

 

[klier]

Yeah, but I know my mind will change when we get more pics.

And I already like the interior, I don't see any problems there at all.

 

[Mars1965]

I seem to have missed something here...Start reading....

 

[mdartisian]

I think one of the main reasons for the poor reception the G11 has received from a design standpoint is because of the F30 generation. F30 saturated the market with a new look that took a moment for people to warm to, especially the headlights connecting to the kidneys, but interestingly, people became accustomed to this look from a BMW very quickly... too quickly. I don't think BMW expected their F30 style of design to become outdated as quickly as it has. When I say outdated, I'm not particularly speaking about the 3 series itself, because it still looks good, but more-so that particular design form. People are looking for something fresh and new from BMW, especially after BMW saturated the market with many variations of the 3/4 series and especially after the 4 series came looking just like the 3 series yet being named the 4 series, which people didn't appreciate, although the 4 series was inherently a replacement 3 series coupe. Something new should really have began after the F15 X5. I really don't think BMW expected they would be in need for a revolution for their cars so soon.

My opinion of the G11 is that the car is actually deceptive in that there are a mixture of old and new with the new being rather subtle while the old being more pronounced (shape of the headlights, and that center console gap which is actually pretty well executed here). This car is actually more of a watered down VFL with an evolutionary rear, than a large 3 series. If you look closely at the hood and shutline on the G11 in the front picture and look at a photo of the VFL they are almost identical in the way the metal bends towards the grill and headlights. I think BMW did a good job with the G11 but BMW individual needs to step in and transform that interior to almost VFL standards especially with the lighting. Also, at this point, BMW M should really get involved with the 7 series. M7 maybe? That name alone...

 

[SCOTT27]

So we had a brief meeting this morning which include said representatives from the cargo company involved.
Let's just say that the ones that took the pictures , their reflections are visible on the car itself.
This was an advanced stage prototype that was to be used in order to showcase for the global distribution network as it stands the 7er is in its final stage of development which is why you will see it shortly braving the winter testing grounds of Sweden still in camouflage. And no the launch is not being brought forward as this this more or less something similar like being caught whilst on a media shoot.

On a personal reflection,the car in the pictures is not seen in profile but an angle in which several cars today can look ungainly and more condensed when viewed at similar angles. This is definitely one of those cases.
Another is the size of the photographs as if they have been cropped that they shorten the car itself.

Despite the profile you seen in the pictures this here is still the finished car even in its outline.
This is the car that will launch to the market. This is what you are getting.

As a question of perspective the headlights and front section of the car are in extreme close-up. Anything photographed this close will be much larger than it actually is.
But one thing I previously mentioned which can be seen in that scoop photograph is the detail of the Laser Light and indeed the internal workings that full the light unit such as the angular piece beside the grille and metallic surface at the base of the headlights. This fills the light unit so it does not look sparse.

Yes it is the interior of the new car but there are specifications to choose from as well as BMW Individual, the interior is minimalist and lounge like to avoid conflict with the more ornate hand crafted elegance found within a Rolls-Royce.
Mercedes have gone out to put the car at this level which it succeeds. But they can , BMW cannot do something similar and choose not to because they want to form a more distinctive line between its two brands so that they sit apart and not on each other. Yes new metallic switchgear replaces previous plastic the coating is of a very high quality as is the damping effect of the switchgear itself. These pictures do not show the full detail and also full specification available to customers.
This the entry 730d or if you will the European markets best selling 7er so it is specified to a degree in which base 7er customers option their car.

The new 7er rides with very stylish wheel options some can go up to 21" this car is using a smaller diameter rim and for transport has shipping blocks attached. In most cases a good size stylish wheel design can make or break a car as is some of the options on the F01 not only reflected luxury but also a sportier appearance.

The G11 will also offer wheel options that reflect its character.

The big picture however is although you think you have seen everything but actually you still have seen nothing and for that you have to wait for the official pictures which will show how good the car's appearance actually is.
Have patience.

 

[SCOTT27]

I love it when you disagree with me @Sunny. I sit up, take note and think "what am I missing here?" I appreciate your input and thoughts, and yes, I too would like to see a more daring design language from BMW on both the exterior and interior fronts a la mentioned concepts.

Thing is, I see the 5er and 7er as bread-and-butter models for BMW in the vanilla vein extolled by EnI. They need to leave room - just as the did for 5er vs 6er - for more expressive design flourishes on the outside and inside. Let's be frank, it's not like any real criticism can be levelled at the 6er's interior which is surely one of the very best on the market considering its positioning and price point. No doubt BMW has to service its current market portfolio with the G11 whilst at the same time positioning it as the conservative offering in order to leave room for a grander and altogether more expressive flagship underpinned by its more straight-laced sibling.

In my humble opinion, it has to be this way; BMW's model strategy in the midrange must be a precursor to something bigger and grander beyond the 7 Series. Audi has to be considering a similar strategy with the A9 leaving the A8 as their conservative offering in the segment. I can only see it as being this way!

As for the delivery of bold and futuristic market-ready interiors which measure up to what we're seeing in concepts from BMW and Audi? I am sure that mass production / material application is simply not capable at this stage of making such quantum leap interiors a reality yet. Just look at how conventional in construction BMW's i8 interior turned out, in spite of its futuristically conceived lines. And that car, surely, has to be the most futuristic thing on the road right now so, clearly, there is no case for BMW's top brass not having the appetite (read that as balls, detractors) for leading edge progress.

Is BMW's delivery of such progress flawless? Of course not, in pioneering innovation even big corporates don't get it right (e.g. iDrive 1.0) first time round and embark on an incremental cycle of continuous improvement. There's no denying that iDrive is now the benchmark against which all other multimedia interfaces are judged.

You should work for us...

 

[EnI]

Guys, before you go completely nuts ... Check the spy pics of FEP cars again.

Sure the styling (inside & outside) is conventional & brings nothing really new ... but the proportions & the stance of the car are just brilliant. Much better resolved than F01, not to mention E65. Sportier, sleeker, more menacing, more upscale, more refined. OK ... a bit more complex again - thus a bit losing that classical elegance. Modern? Sure. It follows the styling theme of F15 / F16 X5 / X6 ... yet it's an evolution of F01 7er.

OK, it's "nothing special" when it comes to design & styling. Should it be? Not really. BMW bosses said no more experiments when it comes to core hi-end products (5er, 6er & 7er). Consequently it's a very familiar design & styling: already seen on many other BMW models. Not everybody needs SHOCK! factor.

Take F15 X5 & F10 5er for example - both are selling like hot cakes, despite being "boring & unimaginative" and "too conventional" and "not sharp & elegant enough" etc. It looks like core BMW customer pool still likes more conservative designs though. That leaves room for experimental, more radical & more daring design & styling for niche BMW models and even more for BMW i models.

So, don't expect design revolution @ BMW core brand anytime soon. Especially not when it comes to core hi-end products.

G11 - despite being vanilla (but very delicious & premium vanilla though!) - will turn out just fine & I'm sure it will sell well. Even better than F01 - which just wasn't looking enough refined & upscale as it should (inside & outside). G11 will address this issue perfectly.

Personally I'm more a fan of sharper & thinner lines / creases - which I find sharper & more elegant & more dramatic - but that's my personal opinion. Which does not mean more thicker lines & chunkier details are not fine either. They still are.

Don't panic, don't worry. F10 was dissed as to tame & boring ... same the F15 X5 ... but they are both VERY popular. How come? G11 will do just fine. I can easily see BMW selling it @ 80k units / per year rate. Not the S-class levels but still second best. Not enough?