Mr. Mercedes
Premium
Yet interestingly how can the same company that is so timid and feeble with their own flagship, the 7, be so bold, innovative and on point with Rolls Royce.
7 Series [Spy shots] BMW 7er (G11) Spy Pics & Info
- Thread starter tristatez28lt1
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The BMW 7 Series is a full-size luxury sedan manufactured and marketed by the German automaker BMW since 1977. It is the successor to the BMW E3 "New Six" sedan. The 7 Series is BMW's flagship car and is only available in a sedan bodystyle (including long wheelbase and limousine models). It traditionally introduces technologies and exterior design themes before other models in BMW's lineup.
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klier
Premium
Well historically leather seats and wood inlays belong in a Benz. A BMW had cloth seats and no trim.
That really says it all for me.
Mr. Mercedes
Premium
^ If your'e going to compete at this end of the market, that's not going to cut it. If they want to eschew wood and leather, then they need to offer us more innovative materials and design. Rob (@SDNR) has been talking about this for a decade now.
With the 7, it's as if BMW has for the last 2 generations gone out to design a car for mass consumption, like Toyota does with a Camry for example, rather than actually trying to create something bold or beautiful or even just expressive. Their mindset seems set on delivery something inoffensive so as to not alienate any potential customers.
Sorry, I don't mean to be a wet blanket. While I'm not a 'BMW guy' as such, I still have a passion for the brand (all the German brands in fact), and I really wanted so much more from the 7. They drive each other to greater heights! I suspect perhaps the next Audi A8 will offer the boldest move in this market segment.
With the 7, it's as if BMW has for the last 2 generations gone out to design a car for mass consumption, like Toyota does with a Camry for example, rather than actually trying to create something bold or beautiful or even just expressive. Their mindset seems set on delivery something inoffensive so as to not alienate any potential customers.
Sorry, I don't mean to be a wet blanket. While I'm not a 'BMW guy' as such, I still have a passion for the brand (all the German brands in fact), and I really wanted so much more from the 7. They drive each other to greater heights! I suspect perhaps the next Audi A8 will offer the boldest move in this market segment.
About the choice of exteriors, why didn't BMW pick a lighter color if the car spotted is indeed for the new movie?
Mr. Mercedes
Premium
You know a design is pretty mediocre, 'vanilla' to be polite, as many on here are saying, if you start relying on colours to make it 'POP'.
klier
Premium
The color thing is a poor excuse. We just need to see more and better pics to make real conclusions. I really hole they move the launch up now with such a fatal leak.
No what I meant to say is that MB is the market, and BMW is still trying to fit in with the 7er.
MB's userbase is set in stone, BMW's foundations are less solid.
The wood and leather was a figure of speech, as I see plenty of wood and leather in the G11.
No what I meant to say is that MB is the market, and BMW is still trying to fit in with the 7er.
MB's userbase is set in stone, BMW's foundations are less solid.
The wood and leather was a figure of speech, as I see plenty of wood and leather in the G11.
Mr. Mercedes
Premium
This bum looks big enough to come off a BMW 'GT'.
Busty
Highway Hunter
I think these pictures and some harsh reactions don't do the car justice ....
Of course, you can say 'this car looks conventional'. That's true: the decision was for very new tech but conventional style.
If you say 'I'm surprised and underwhelmed' I am asking why. The sketches I made as well as JPATT's were not so off. The last renders etc. have also given pretty good hints. Where they all missed (in my case mostly due to lack of detail information and drawing talent) were the details. And such details are not very obvious in these shots.
To give you a better idea of what I mean I painted ... again
.
i) shoulder line: very different from the usual BMW approach as it doesn't fold back in underneath. So no concave shape but a more 'Audiesque' technical angle
ii) When I had first seen the car I spoke about the door handles ... here, you barely see them. They have a very different form compared to all other current BMWs emphasizing that 'new' shoulder
iii) the line above the back wheel arch: new for the 7 series, already present in the 3/4 series, gives a very new dynamic to this big car.
iv) we talked about it already: 3-dimensional rearlights. The upper part actually seems to sit on the chrome bar and the lower line folds in. Very complex design.
v) the room in the wheel arches: you probably all realized but the car sits much higher than it actually is .... making it look even more bulky than it is. Especially the back side is much sleeker than in the current car.
vii) the double hoff kink is there ... it's just in the alu stripe.
vii) references to the i's .... may have been (much) stronger imo but they are very obvious in the front and back bumpers ... a small detail doing a lot for the silhouette.
viii) again ... those headlights that make me sick in some way. Here, they seem under-defined and un-finished but they did not irl. I guess what disturbs me are the reflections ... just imagine them mostly black on the inside. That improves a lot. That latest bmwblog render is actually very close to the real deal there.
Of course, you can say 'this car looks conventional'. That's true: the decision was for very new tech but conventional style.
If you say 'I'm surprised and underwhelmed' I am asking why. The sketches I made as well as JPATT's were not so off. The last renders etc. have also given pretty good hints. Where they all missed (in my case mostly due to lack of detail information and drawing talent) were the details. And such details are not very obvious in these shots.
To give you a better idea of what I mean I painted ... again
.i) shoulder line: very different from the usual BMW approach as it doesn't fold back in underneath. So no concave shape but a more 'Audiesque' technical angle
ii) When I had first seen the car I spoke about the door handles ... here, you barely see them. They have a very different form compared to all other current BMWs emphasizing that 'new' shoulder
iii) the line above the back wheel arch: new for the 7 series, already present in the 3/4 series, gives a very new dynamic to this big car.
iv) we talked about it already: 3-dimensional rearlights. The upper part actually seems to sit on the chrome bar and the lower line folds in. Very complex design.
v) the room in the wheel arches: you probably all realized but the car sits much higher than it actually is .... making it look even more bulky than it is. Especially the back side is much sleeker than in the current car.
vii) the double hoff kink is there ... it's just in the alu stripe.
vii) references to the i's .... may have been (much) stronger imo but they are very obvious in the front and back bumpers ... a small detail doing a lot for the silhouette.
viii) again ... those headlights that make me sick in some way. Here, they seem under-defined and un-finished but they did not irl. I guess what disturbs me are the reflections ... just imagine them mostly black on the inside. That improves a lot. That latest bmwblog render is actually very close to the real deal there.
D
Deleted member 25
I meant because it's a 730d, it doesn't come with the passenger screen as standard.
hoffmeister_fan
Kraftwagen König
From a design perspective, I think the F01 has this beat.
The F01's issue was never that it was a bad design. Far from it. It's a great design from any angle. One element flowed seamlessly into the next. The F01's interior was also a great example of clean, minimalist design. The only criticism I had with regards to the interior was that 5er pretty much aped it with very little differences between the two.
The G11 is not a bad exterior design, but it offers very little, if any, novelty. Let's start with the rear and move our way up to the front...
The rear: it looks huge. But from the angle the pics were taken, even the dead-on rear, it looks BIG. I think the rear pics and the rear 3/4 pics were taken somewhat at a crouched angle thus giving it more height than there really is. I was hoping the rear-light would have a slimmer profile because I was afraid we would have it looking too similar to the Korean knock-off, *cough, cough* I mean the Kia K900/Quoris. And lo and behold, that is what happened. I like the detailing on the rear bumper, especially around the faux exhaust ports.
The rear 3/4: There seems to be a lot of metal on the rear fenders between the wheels and the base of the C-pillar. Usually a profile line would help provide some horizontal length to de-emphasize the bulk there and make it sleeker. But it seems that the profile line is rather subtle and doesn't accomplish that as it ought to have. But that could be more due to the quality of the picture being pretty low-res. Also those wooden blocks raising it's suspension and height and those small wheels do not do it any service for the car's appearance
Between the A and C pillars: pretty standard BMW sedan fare. Nothing wrong, but nothing exciting except for the nice chrome detaling aft of the front wheel extending all and around the rear bumper.
The front: I actually like it, but I do wish the headlights, like the rear lights, were slimmer in profile. I quite like the detailing in the lower bumper and the grille.
The interior....that's where the bulk of my criticism lies....
I am going to start with the door panel because that's what I am most annoyed with. The door panel is so bland, it reminds me of what I would see in an early aughts Lexus or a current Hyundai Genesis/Kia K900. Now when you compare the interior door panel from the F01 and the E65, and then you look at this, I am really wondering what the hell happened. I know it may seem like I am obsessing about something relatively minor, but it sort of plays into a bigger detail: the wood trim. In the previous two gens, the wood trim had a substantial, almost-furniture like quality to it. In the G11, it seems to have an applique quality to it. I am hoping better resolution pics will prove me wrong, but this leak and the previous leak seem to indicate otherwise. I know I've mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I figure might as well have another go and beat that dead horse.
I have no opinion as of yet regarding the metal buttons except that it looks like real aluminum. I would have to see better pics to see how well it works in the interior because I am currently on the fence about them.
The center console has a nice clean appearance. The center dash is too reminscient of the 3er, but that's been pointed out. The HVAC vents don't really impart any sense of it feeling high-end or substantial, as implied by Busty in earlier posts. The audio speakers looks like something you'd seen in the early 00's... the speakers grilles you have seen with B&O, B&W and, especially, Burmester are now de riguer when it comes to high-end mainstream luxury cars. The shifter seems needlessly bulky. I think the only thing I really like is the steering wheel, the gauge binnacle, the use of leather and its color combination and the metal trim.
All that negativity aside, I am not prepared to write this car off.
We need better, higher-res pics where the car is in natural lighting and in production trim. Also as this car is being shipped for a Mission Impossible movie shoot, I have a feeling some details are there for the sake of shipping, i.e. wheels, speaker cover, etc. And as much as BMW has disheartened me lately, I still want to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see a fully production specced 7er. Especially if the tech is up to snuff, and the purported weight loss and efficiency is real, they will still be a force to be reckoned within the segment.
Well, BigBenzGirl and gents, I hoped you had your umbrella with you, because I brought some torrential rain on this parade. But I did offer a bit of a rainbow at the end, so that's something.
With that, we're getting close to 2015's arrival so have a happy 2015, gals and guys.
EDIT: After seeing the reflections of the rogue photographer, it seems he's standing and not crouching, so the visual height is not as much an optical illusion as I have thought it to be.
The F01's issue was never that it was a bad design. Far from it. It's a great design from any angle. One element flowed seamlessly into the next. The F01's interior was also a great example of clean, minimalist design. The only criticism I had with regards to the interior was that 5er pretty much aped it with very little differences between the two.
The G11 is not a bad exterior design, but it offers very little, if any, novelty. Let's start with the rear and move our way up to the front...
The rear: it looks huge. But from the angle the pics were taken, even the dead-on rear, it looks BIG. I think the rear pics and the rear 3/4 pics were taken somewhat at a crouched angle thus giving it more height than there really is. I was hoping the rear-light would have a slimmer profile because I was afraid we would have it looking too similar to the Korean knock-off, *cough, cough* I mean the Kia K900/Quoris. And lo and behold, that is what happened. I like the detailing on the rear bumper, especially around the faux exhaust ports.
The rear 3/4: There seems to be a lot of metal on the rear fenders between the wheels and the base of the C-pillar. Usually a profile line would help provide some horizontal length to de-emphasize the bulk there and make it sleeker. But it seems that the profile line is rather subtle and doesn't accomplish that as it ought to have. But that could be more due to the quality of the picture being pretty low-res. Also those wooden blocks raising it's suspension and height and those small wheels do not do it any service for the car's appearance
Between the A and C pillars: pretty standard BMW sedan fare. Nothing wrong, but nothing exciting except for the nice chrome detaling aft of the front wheel extending all and around the rear bumper.
The front: I actually like it, but I do wish the headlights, like the rear lights, were slimmer in profile. I quite like the detailing in the lower bumper and the grille.
The interior....that's where the bulk of my criticism lies....
I am going to start with the door panel because that's what I am most annoyed with. The door panel is so bland, it reminds me of what I would see in an early aughts Lexus or a current Hyundai Genesis/Kia K900. Now when you compare the interior door panel from the F01 and the E65, and then you look at this, I am really wondering what the hell happened. I know it may seem like I am obsessing about something relatively minor, but it sort of plays into a bigger detail: the wood trim. In the previous two gens, the wood trim had a substantial, almost-furniture like quality to it. In the G11, it seems to have an applique quality to it. I am hoping better resolution pics will prove me wrong, but this leak and the previous leak seem to indicate otherwise. I know I've mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I figure might as well have another go and beat that dead horse.
I have no opinion as of yet regarding the metal buttons except that it looks like real aluminum. I would have to see better pics to see how well it works in the interior because I am currently on the fence about them.
The center console has a nice clean appearance. The center dash is too reminscient of the 3er, but that's been pointed out. The HVAC vents don't really impart any sense of it feeling high-end or substantial, as implied by Busty in earlier posts. The audio speakers looks like something you'd seen in the early 00's... the speakers grilles you have seen with B&O, B&W and, especially, Burmester are now de riguer when it comes to high-end mainstream luxury cars. The shifter seems needlessly bulky. I think the only thing I really like is the steering wheel, the gauge binnacle, the use of leather and its color combination and the metal trim.
All that negativity aside, I am not prepared to write this car off.
We need better, higher-res pics where the car is in natural lighting and in production trim. Also as this car is being shipped for a Mission Impossible movie shoot, I have a feeling some details are there for the sake of shipping, i.e. wheels, speaker cover, etc. And as much as BMW has disheartened me lately, I still want to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see a fully production specced 7er. Especially if the tech is up to snuff, and the purported weight loss and efficiency is real, they will still be a force to be reckoned within the segment.
Well, BigBenzGirl and gents, I hoped you had your umbrella with you, because I brought some torrential rain on this parade. But I did offer a bit of a rainbow at the end, so that's something.
With that, we're getting close to 2015's arrival so have a happy 2015, gals and guys.
EDIT: After seeing the reflections of the rogue photographer, it seems he's standing and not crouching, so the visual height is not as much an optical illusion as I have thought it to be.
SKY
Kraftwagen König
Wow, I don´t know if you have been following the reaction in the forums but, so far, they are really negative. In bimmerpost the people just hate it, same in worldcarfans comments. And here we are not very pleased either.
I have to say this car looks exactly as the spy shots suggested. As I said back then, it appeared to have almost no influence of the VFL at all. the only details I can see are the steering wheel, the chrome of the side profile, and the chrome of the rear end. The car is not ugly IMO, it is just in line with what BMW is doing lately: soulless. There is nothing special there. It looks like an updated F01. The side profile is almost identical, with less creases and more chrome. The rear is a mix between the 5er GT, the A8 LCI (the part in the boot lid is exactly the same but reversed) and the E65 LCI. It is not ugly IMO, but does not rock your world. The frot end is boring and the headlights are ugly. The interior, while having some nice touches like the steering wheel, the speedo and the chrome buttons, it reminds me too much to the F30 3er one. Special mention to the door panels, which look plain and not too sofisticated, to be honest.
After the fugly E65, the F01 was a step in the right direction. It offered some good contrast with the W221 S-Class, and the interior back then was a very nice surprise. The F01 interior looks way better than this IMO. Specially the central console and the door panels.
BMW should not play this safe because the W222 is a true hit, and when this thing goes on sale, the W222 will have new I6 and V8 engines, new gearbox and new tech. But it will not come alone. If the new A8 is as influenced by the Prologue Concept as Audi officials keep repeating, I think it is going to crush this G11 7er.
5er is always the best BMW design IMO. Let´s hope this time is specially better than the 7er.
I have to say this car looks exactly as the spy shots suggested. As I said back then, it appeared to have almost no influence of the VFL at all. the only details I can see are the steering wheel, the chrome of the side profile, and the chrome of the rear end. The car is not ugly IMO, it is just in line with what BMW is doing lately: soulless. There is nothing special there. It looks like an updated F01. The side profile is almost identical, with less creases and more chrome. The rear is a mix between the 5er GT, the A8 LCI (the part in the boot lid is exactly the same but reversed) and the E65 LCI. It is not ugly IMO, but does not rock your world. The frot end is boring and the headlights are ugly. The interior, while having some nice touches like the steering wheel, the speedo and the chrome buttons, it reminds me too much to the F30 3er one. Special mention to the door panels, which look plain and not too sofisticated, to be honest.
After the fugly E65, the F01 was a step in the right direction. It offered some good contrast with the W221 S-Class, and the interior back then was a very nice surprise. The F01 interior looks way better than this IMO. Specially the central console and the door panels.
BMW should not play this safe because the W222 is a true hit, and when this thing goes on sale, the W222 will have new I6 and V8 engines, new gearbox and new tech. But it will not come alone. If the new A8 is as influenced by the Prologue Concept as Audi officials keep repeating, I think it is going to crush this G11 7er.
5er is always the best BMW design IMO. Let´s hope this time is specially better than the 7er.
hovabongZA
Tire Trailblazer
BMW should stop showing us concepts because almost none of those styling cues ever make it onto the production vehicles,what those concepts do is unfairly raise our expectation of what to expect only to be left disapponted at the final product. We saw that with the 4 series concept and we now seeing that with this. I like the rear end of this car I just have a problem with everything else ,the interior ,headlights and side profiles are just boring. Im afraid that the 7er will continue to be the other alternative to the benchmark S Class .It wont matter how good it is to drive or how much technology it has if it doesnt look special enough. I hope the angles and qaulity of the pictures are to blame because its really looking bad.
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