Sport Auto - Nordschleife laptimes

[DeDe]

This is the downside of the internet... BS coming from everywhere, from everyone.
Even a respected journalist have to explain the obvious truth (however there will be idiots after this who would call this a cheat, lol).

 

[Amat46]

^ of course! This is an AMG, it can't never go faster than a Porsche or Ferrari. I say this is some sort of sorcery

 

[Laurent T]

^ of course! This is an AMG, it can't never go faster than a Porsche or Ferrari. I say this is some sort of sorcery

Well, people have problems to understand / believe that active aerodynamics, rear wheel steer, very sticky tyres + intensive tuning of suspensions can do such results... when this is a company like AMG. But the very impressive Corvette results in the past show it is !
Looks like first press drive will take place shortly, we will know better what journalists think !

 

[Mafalda]

..... my mind goes back to "how ferrari spin"....
If a STOCK AMG GT R can do this, 918 can surely 6'40"

 

[WBarnes]

From BTG.com
UPDATE: DID AMG ‘CHEAT’ THEIR 7M10S GT R LAPTIME? NO THEY DIDN’T!
8TH DECEMBER 2016 DALE

OH NO! Say it ain’t so Mercedes-AMG! Yep… those look like low-profile Michelin slicks on standard AMG GT R rims right next to the car that did the lap record with Christian Gebhardt / sport auto.

There are some perfectly rational explanations that might destroy claims of cheating… for example the Vipers did laps on slicks and semi-slicks, just to see if they could get under 7. They got 7m03s back in 2012.

Or maybe the Haribo GT3 car was using some standard AMG rims for the day.

Or maybe they’re just really slim tyre warmers that somebody wrote on in yellow tyre pen…

All a little bit too CSI:Nürburg? Well, as CSI Miami would say:

UPDATE:
Christian himself supplied this photo, which clears everything right up:

Yep, those Cup2s are so perfectly destroyed that they look like slicks from the other angle! Respect

Except it isn't the same shot.

First photo showed two tyres on top of a Cup 2, with 1 tyre to the rear with a cover. So unless someone took a cover off a tyre and put it under the two worn tyres, it doesn't really hold. Sport Auto also previously commented on YouTube that those two just had covers on them and later deleted the comment.

It's also hella strange how I can clearly make out the tread on the tyre at the bottom, which is both further away, and shadowed by the other two.

 

[WBarnes]

Well, people have problems to understand / believe that active aerodynamics, rear wheel steer, very sticky tyres + intensive tuning of suspensions can do such results... when this is a company like AMG. But the very impressive Corvette results in the past show it is !
Looks like first press drive will take place shortly, we will know better what journalists think !

Well I think the emphasis should mainly be on 'sticky tyres', because it's not like Porsche doesn't intensively tune suspensions, and it's not like others don't use active aero too. Rear-wheel steer has minimal affect. Most of the people who were first to adopt it, dropped it. This is mainly a tyre affect. But TBH, some tyres these days, like ACR Kumho V720s and perhaps these 'Cup 2s', are pretty much as sticky as slicks anyway.

 

[Amat46]

I give up!

 

[portland12345]

Can't wait for more track tests with gt r.

I guess other press will be getting hold of it soon.

 

[Mafalda]

super press car. end of the story

 

[WBarnes]

TBD

 

[kingjr9000]

..... my mind goes back to "how ferrari spin"....
If a STOCK AMG GT R can do this, 918 can surely 6'40"

An owner on RT says that Porsche has done an internal check, and the current car can go about 10secs faster.

Even the Pre-production car could have gone faster if Marc had been better prepared for it, @boyko23 said.

 

[kingjr9000]

This was posted over at RT:
BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap.

So, CG did around 7 fast laps.

:Full Supertest wil be published in forthcoming issue. Acceleration and HHR time are pretty good as well.

Now, I email my P source to ask his opinion about this Sport Auto test/results... His response:"Fully legit! No single doubt about it. Ok, car is about 4s slower on regular Cup2 tires and maybe they should use them instead. AMG tuned this car suspension for various tracks in Germany, Nordschleife especially included. That is not cheating for me. But, on Spa for example it would not be that fast.

And our 991.2 GT3 RS will be faster for sure!"

 

[kingjr9000]

From RT: Just had a chat with my mate, VLN champion 2011, 24 hours winner N'Ring 2016 in an AMG GT3 and he thinks the lap by Gebhard is great, still 3-6 second faster is possible.

 

[Rolf]

Look at the Viper ATR it's another car that is low powered and has beaten many more powerful and also race oriented cars (GT3 RS included) around tracks due to its massive downforce and suspension and tyre setup. I believe these are valid results from SA. Can any of gents put the 488 GTB super test N-ring page and as well as the 918 page for comparison then we can check if the Merc is indeed faster than both cars in various corners?

 

[WBarnes]

An owner on RT says that Porsche has done an internal check, and the current car can go about 10secs faster.

Even the Pre-production car could have gone faster if Marc had been better prepared for it, @boyko23 said.

Well there's no such thing as a perfect lap on the 'ring, but I don't thing we can make blasee estimates about how much faster a car can go. From lap data I've seen, the 918 gained lap pace on shorter tracks by increasing the battery discharge rate. This was verified by both MT's data and treynor's graphs. The 918 was 1s slower on lap 2. So whereas the battery lasted 6 minutes in HL mode when they ran the 'ring lap, now it lasts about 2 minutes. The pre-production 918 was 4mph slower on every straight on Laguna (and the first one they tested was also limited to 140mph).

 

[WBarnes]

This was posted over at RT:
BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap.

So, CG did around 7 fast laps.

:Full Supertest wil be published in forthcoming issue. Acceleration and HHR time are pretty good as well.

Now, I email my P source to ask his opinion about this Sport Auto test/results... His response:"Fully legit! No single doubt about it. Ok, car is about 4s slower on regular Cup2 tires and maybe they should use them instead. AMG tuned this car suspension for various tracks in Germany, Nordschleife especially included. That is not cheating for me. But, on Spa for example it would not be that fast.

And our 991.2 GT3 RS will be faster for sure!"

Very strange statement. So there GT3 RS is faster than their flagship hypercar? 4s slower with regular Cup 2s on the 'ring or HHR? 4s on the 'ring is next to nothing and 4s on HHR is huge.

For me I would conclude 4s on HHR. On equal tyres to a 488, it's not too big an assumption to conclude that this thing shouldn't be faster than a 488, which has it beaten on power-to-weight, torque-to-weight, actual weight (lighter), downforce and.... well everything except tyres.

The HHR time will be a big tell, because that lap is shorter and simpler. If it runs 1:05-1:06, then we can assume '4s' means on HHR.

 

[WBarnes]

Look at the Viper ATR it's another car that is low powered and has beaten many more powerful and also race oriented cars (GT3 RS included) around tracks due to its massive downforce and suspension and tyre setup. I believe these are valid results from SA. Can any of gents put the 488 GTB super test N-ring page and as well as the 918 page for comparison then we can check if the Merc is indeed faster than both cars in various corners?

The ACR had huge downforce though, whereas the AMG GTR doesn't. It also has crazy large tyres, shit-loads of torque and a higher power-to-weight ratio. And ludicrously sticky tyres that rival slicks in performance.

 

[Soup]

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[portland12345]

The ACR had huge downforce though, whereas the AMG GTR doesn't. It also has crazy large tyres, shit-loads of torque and a higher power-to-weight ratio. And ludicrously sticky tyres that rival slicks in performance.

Yeah its not even close. Laughable to even say AMG GT R produces anywhere near the ACR downforce levels.

That ACR that did 7:12.13 used Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres.
600 kg of downforce at 250 km/h.
Top speed at Dottinger Hohe only 255 km/h.

The time from AMG GT R is clearly evolution of tyre technology.


If Dodge ever take the new ACR extreme aero to norschleife they could probably get 7 minutes flat.

 

[kingjr9000]

Very strange statement. So there GT3 RS is faster than their flagship hypercar? 4s slower with regular Cup 2s on the 'ring or HHR? 4s on the 'ring is next to nothing and 4s on HHR is huge.

For me I would conclude 4s on HHR. On equal tyres to a 488, it's not too big an assumption to conclude that this thing shouldn't be faster than a 488, which has it beaten on power-to-weight, torque-to-weight, actual weight (lighter), downforce and.... well everything except tyres.

The HHR time will be a big tell, because that lap is shorter and simpler. If it runs 1:05-1:06, then we can assume '4s' means on HHR.

I think they mean 4secs on the ring, not HHR. Also, I'm pretty sure he was trying to pump up the 3RS, by comparing it to the GT R.