Spy Shots Spied: The Audi RS7, RS6 Avant spotted with engine shot!

[donkeykong]

Spied: The Audi RS7, RS6 Avant spotted with new 4.0L Biturbo TFSI engine

For the very first time, both the Audi RS7 and RS6 Avant have been spied spied in the wild, the RS7 is even without any sort of disguise. The RS7 show here is in a beautiful Matte Black paint scheme that looks as menacing as we would expect from the crew at quattro GmbH. If you look closely, the car next to the RS7 is ineed an RS6 Avant in full Camo wrap. I’m not sure why they would camouflage one and not the other however.
We are very excited to see that Audi is taking the tuning of the Audi RS7 and RS6 to the next level with a highly potent 4.0L Biturbo TFSI engine which is borrowed from the Bentley Continental GT and is believed to be coming with at least 550HP.We don’t have any more clues about this beast other than these two leaked pictures which were emailed to us by our source who saw them posted briefly in a public forum. According to the exif data on the photos, these cars were located in Las Vegas, Nevada and were likely out there for some high temperature testing. We can only hope and dream that this means these car may some day grace the showroooms of US Audi dealers!

Spied: The Audi RS7, RS6 Avant spotted with new 4.0L Biturbo TFSI engine | QuattroWorld

 

[purplehenk]

Tried to get a little more off that camo...

Ps. I added an RS grill, air intake and alu mirror(yay..)

 

[Sunny]

Interesting, looks like it uses the turbos are in the valley or at least centrally positioned. But not sure if it uses 'hot side inside' set up like N63/S63.

 

[martinbo]

Bah. I can't see that pic Sunny. Link deleted or is my pos iPad effing me around again?

 

[purplehenk]

Bah. I can't see that pic Sunny. Link deleted or is my pos iPad effing me around again?

Link seems to be deleted... it worked before.

 

[donkeykong]

Interesting, looks like it uses the turbos are in the valley or at least centrally positioned. But not sure if it uses 'hot side inside' set up like N63/S63.

Yup I noticed that too it's on top,and in the middle of the “V".

Sorry Martin,the pictures have in fact been deleted. Some one must have gotten an earfull over that one.

 

[Sunny]

Damn, only the engine pic got removed, should have saved it.

Edit: here found it on another site.

 

[donkeykong]

Some more shots

So many have said that Audi would be borrowing this engine form Bently,but 2008 Audi said they would develop a 4.0tfsi,so if anything it's the other way around.

 

[purplehenk]

So many have said that Audi would be borrowing this engine form Bently,but 2008 Audi said they would develop a 4.0tfsi,so if anything it's the other way around.

AFAIK Bentley and Audi are working together on that 4.0 engine..

 

[martinbo]

Terrific. Thanks Sunny. So there it is, confirmation of the hot side inside turbocharger configuration of the new V8. Those are clearly two turbos nestled toward the back of the engine bay in the middle of the Vee. See the two electronic actuators and long linkages for the waste gates on either side of the engine bay.

The induction system lacks the elegant symmetry of the N/S63, Audi favouring an asymmetrical layout for the turbo inlets and a single charge air cooler vs BMW's one-per-bank arrangement. For sure this is still a development engine but it still looks like a dog's breakfast under that hood. Cable ties FTW!

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Terrific. Thanks Sunny. So there it is, confirmation of the hot side inside turbocharger configuration of the new V8. Those are clearly two turbos nestled toward the back of the engine bay in the middle of the Vee. See the two electronic actuators and long linkages for the waste gates on either side of the engine bay.

The induction system lacks the elegant symmetry of the N/S63, Audi favouring an asymmetrical layout for the turbo inlets and a single charge air cooler vs BMW's one-per-bank arrangement. For sure this is still a development engine but it still looks like a dog's breakfast under that hood. Cable ties FTW!

I've no idea what all this means but it sure reinforces the theory that BMW make the best engines.

 

[Sunny]

Thanks Martin, so I guess Audi did copy BMW's setup and yea the plumbing does look messy, but it is Audi, I am sure they know a thing or two bout turbos. So any way, that got me to read some old articles/press releases about N63 and one of the advantages that it states for the "hot side inside" setup is shorter path for exhaust to the turbos. But now when I think about it, I don't see how the path for the exhaust is any shorter than a conventional set up with the turbos and exhaust manifold on the outside. Unless of course the engine is using the "cross bank exhaust manifold" like S63 which would literally be a plumbing nightmare with a conventional setup. So I guess BMW's motivation for using "hot side inside" setup for N63 was probably partially at least in preparation for S63. Wonder what Audi's is, just the compact size or did they also copy the cross bank exhaust manifold setup?

 

[martinbo]

Does it really Betty? I'm not so sure that the accolade of best engine maker is exclusively BMW's. Unquestionably the N/S63 is a marvel of innovation and solution creativity and I'm surprised that Audi had the gumption to imitate the reverse flow concept so rapidly. But one of the things that gives me wood as a car fan in 2011 is that the variation in engine design and approaches is so diverse that there are several car makers with noteworthy engines.

Audi's 8000 rpm V10 in your new car, the sublime and wasted masterpiece that is the 5 cylinder 2.5TFSI and the still excellent 4.2 litre FSI V8s come to mind. AMGs 6.2 litre NA V8s are epic and their new 5.5 litre turbos look to be equally special. Porsche's continued improvement of the normally aspirated and turbo'd flat sixes is simply remarkable and Ferrari's 458 V8 engine is the zenith of normally aspirated engine technology. Even Jaguar's supercharged AJ III V8 is terrific in its own way. And yes, BMW's 7000 rpm S63Tu engine will be a revelation for big, turbo'd engines.

Phew, and that's not all of it!

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Does it really Betty?

Don't know. Just inferred that from the quick perusal of your post, but your second explanation explains that there are lots of manufacturers with stuff to brag about. I guess BMW make the best mainstream engines overall, but the Porsche 4.0 in the the GT3 RS 4.0 must be the pinnacle of automotive showboating. I also can't wait to explore the V10 in my new car. I only have a 15 min experience of it so far on a demonstrator six months ago.

 

[martinbo]

Thanks Martin, so I guess Audi did copy BMW's setup and yea the plumbing does look messy, but it is Audi, I am sure they know a thing or two bout turbos. So any way, that got me to read some old articles/press releases about N63 and one of the advantages that it states for the "hot side inside" setup is shorter path for exhaust to the turbos. But now when I think about it, I don't see how the path for the exhaust is any shorter than a conventional set up with the turbos and exhaust manifold on the outside. Unless of course the engine is using the "cross bank exhaust manifold" like S63 which would literally be a plumbing nightmare with a conventional setup. So I guess BMW's motivation for using "hot side inside" setup for N63 was probably partially at least in preparation for S63. Wonder what Audi's is, just the compact size or did they also copy the cross bank exhaust manifold setup?

Sunny, I agree with you that placing the turbos in the Vee makes no difference in shortening the distance from the exhaust outlet to the turbine impeller. Mercedes Benz have achieved an equally short path with their turbo packaging on the M157 conventional twin turbo V8.

The key benefits of the hot side inside approach as applied by BMW are a) packaging - the overall mechanical package is narrower within the engine bay, b) the inlet system path of turbo to intercooler to inlet manifold is significantly shorter and thus more efficient (especially if a front bumper-mounted air to air intercooler were to be used) and, of course as you already identified, c) the possibility for cross manifold application which would otherwise be wholly impractical.

...but your second explanation explains that there are lots of manufacturers with stuff to brag about.

Exactly.

 

[Deckhook]

So is this a carbon copy of the N/S63 or is there some technology unknown that makes it similar but unique at the same time. Will it be better or will it worse?

 

[south]

Wonder what Audi's is, just the compact size or did they also copy the cross bank exhaust manifold setup?

Doubtful as BMW has patented their cross bank exhaust manifold.


Best regards,
south

 

[Giannis]

cross bank exhaust manifold.

I see this term being mentioned quite a few times in this thread, and I hate to admit that I have absolutely no idea about what it is!

Can anyone please give me a hint?

 

[Palbay]

I see this term being mentioned quite a few times in this thread, and I hate to admit that I have absolutely no idea about what it is!

Can anyone please give me a hint?

Giannis,I think this link will describe the BMW "Cross Banked Exhaust Manifold" mentioned by South. Thanks. PalBay BimmerBoost - BMW twin turbo V8 analysis - Power potential, tuning, performance, and architecture of the N63 and S63 motors

 

[Sunny]

Another article with a few more diagrams to better describe the cross bank exhaust manifold (the official term is Cylinder-bank Comprehensive Manifold, which doesn't make much sense) on S63 - BimmerFile » Archive » Exclusive: The NEW ///M Motor in Depth.

And this is S63 in X5/6M, the S63TU adds variocam to the equation, which effectively means the engine has 8 individual throttle bodies like traditional M NA engines. I know lot of people love to hate of the engine here, but it is really a technological tour de force. I am excited to see to see what bag of tricks this Audi engine brings to the table to match S63 and M157, especially since it rumored to be smaller (4.0 vs 4.4 vs 5.5). AMG took the easy way out and just made M157 bigger, it is effective, but it doesn't excite the engineer in me same way S63 Tu does.