Range Rover Range Rover (L405)


The Land Rover Range Rover, generally shortened to Range Rover, is a 4x4 luxury SUV produced by Land Rover. The Range Rover line has been in production since it was launched in 1970 by British Leyland.
^ wow, you have a real obsession with acceleration times.Who gives a shit about those finer details or the recession, this vehicle is about exquisite craftsmanship, ensconced affirmation for your shortened lifespan due to stress and personal reward.
 
^ wow, you have a real obsession with acceleration times.Who gives a shit about those finer details or the recession, this vehicle is about exquisite craftsmanship,
ensconced affirmation for your shortened lifespan due to stress and personal reward.

"this vehicle is about exquisite craftsmanship"

- don't make me laugh! Range Rover is to exquisite craftsmanship as Lucas was to illumination. Jesus, you Range Rover 'aficionados' must think everyone was born yesterday. The world and his wife knows Land Rover is a byword for overpriced junk, making the world's most unreliable, intrinsically poor quality, vastly overpriced products, going strong since 1948. When a Range Rover goes offroad it means it's on a flatbed of a recovery truck. Do you really think coming on here and throwing around 'exquisite craftsmanship' trumps 60+ years of documented, second only to the Commies abysmal car building notoriety, poor product design and chronic product development track record?

I've seen first-hand the Solihull operation where these things get randomly thrown together - even after the collective best efforts of BMW and Ford over a period of 15 years - and the calibre of people who build, design and engineer - allegedly - these 'exquistely crafted' products, and I wouldn't take one if it was given to me. I value my life too much.

"ensconced affirmation for your shortened lifespan due to stress and personal reward."

- come again, in English.

The general point was not just 'acceleration'. I used it to illustrate that the claimed huge weight saving could not be so due to the inferior performance as against supposedly much heavier, steel-bodied competitors' products. I think I showed that in fact the weight saving was much more modest than trumpeted, around 200 kg, like for like, and the competitors' better powertrains, especially engines(the ubiquitous 8-spd ZF 'box is good), easily make up any actual weight disadvantage. Engines are far more important to final fuel economy and performance than weight, contrary to the received wisdom. A good, 'step-change' motor, like VAG's new 4-litre V8 in the Audi S8 and Bentley Continental, can make an obese product like the Continental overnight fuel economy wise and performance wise competitive, whereas removing 2-300 kg from a 2,500 kg base with a carryover, older engine would not, analogous to the new Range Rover.

So, try as you might to make this an 'obsession' with acceleration on my part, it was merely to show that a supposedly 'old-school', steel-bodied SUV, like the GL, will still out-perform an ally-body SUV, due to its superior engine and overall development of its powertrain, four wheel drive system, and general engineering clout of a firm like Daimler compared to JLR.

Being inferior in acceleration, top speed, fuel economy, emissions, interior space, price and no doubt product and build quality, is NOT an OCD-type obsession; it's the real world, of stuff like, er, measurable things, like, er, engineering. Cheers.
 
I actually agree with some of that, but these things aren't going off road in the U.S. and they're a status symbol and when they're running right, they're a good drive from what I'm told. I have alway said that LR and Jaguar could be so much more if their quality would match the Japanese or even the Germans.

This new RR will be all over ritzy areas of the world by this time next year regardless, as will the GL. There is room for both.


M
 
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Looks great from this angle, when you don't see the fugly blinkers....
 
Hey, kids, I just forwarded the message and thaugt it was funny to take the sentence out of context. I don't think anyone here would believe that the Rangie could weight in at about the same as a MIDI Countryman.
 
"this vehicle is about exquisite craftsmanship"

- don't make me laugh! Range Rover is to exquisite craftsmanship as Lucas was to illumination. Jesus, you Range Rover 'aficionados' must think everyone was born yesterday. The world and his wife knows Land Rover is a byword for overpriced junk, making the world's most unreliable, intrinsically poor quality, vastly overpriced products, going strong since 1948. When a Range Rover goes offroad it means it's on a flatbed of a recovery truck. Do you really think coming on here and throwing around 'exquisite craftsmanship' trumps 60+ years of documented, second only to the Commies abysmal car building notoriety, poor product design and chronic product development track record?

I've seen first-hand the Solihull operation where these things get randomly thrown together - even after the collective best efforts of BMW and Ford over a period of 15 years - and the calibre of people who build, design and engineer - allegedly - these 'exquistely crafted' products, and I wouldn't take one if it was given to me. I value my life too much.

"ensconced affirmation for your shortened lifespan due to stress and personal reward."

- come again, in English.

The general point was not just 'acceleration'. I used it to illustrate that the claimed huge weight saving could not be so due to the inferior performance as against supposedly much heavier, steel-bodied competitors' products. I think I showed that in fact the weight saving was much more modest than trumpeted, around 200 kg, like for like, and the competitors' better powertrains, especially engines(the ubiquitous 8-spd ZF 'box is good), easily make up any actual weight disadvantage. Engines are far more important to final fuel economy and performance than weight, contrary to the received wisdom. A good, 'step-change' motor, like VAG's new 4-litre V8 in the Audi S8 and Bentley Continental, can make an obese product like the Continental overnight fuel economy wise and performance wise competitive, whereas removing 2-300 kg from a 2,500 kg base with a carryover, older engine would not, analogous to the new Range Rover.

So, try as you might to make this an 'obsession' with acceleration on my part, it was merely to show that a supposedly 'old-school', steel-bodied SUV, like the GL, will still out-perform an ally-body SUV, due to its superior engine and overall development of its powertrain, four wheel drive system, and general engineering clout of a firm like Daimler compared to JLR.

Being inferior in acceleration, top speed, fuel economy, emissions, interior space, price and no doubt product and build quality, is NOT an OCD-type obsession; it's the real world, of stuff like, er, measurable things, like, er, engineering. Cheers.

Completely disagree with you. You are correct in that LR have been plagued by reliability ratings. Part of the problem stems from the high number of areas that can go wrong. It is not a simple vehicle, what with the air suspension, surround cameras etc. Part of the problem is simply poor form on LR's part. But I don't see a beautifully designed and crafted cabin and exterior as being in any way related to this. My RR Sport comes with a 5 year, 100,000Km full maintenance plan and will be changed at 4 years or 80,000Km's. The only problem I've encountered is a rattle in the back, which has since been fixed, and a somewhat outdated infomatics system. I agree, however, that they should be ashamed of their reliability record. But this new RR is exquisitely crafted, designed and beautifully luxurious. I cannot wait to see the new RR Sport.
 
^
^
Exactly, that's why even if I do like the new M-B GL it's only an alternative to the RR. Nothing compares to the Big Body in this segment. Not on style, comfort, size or pure undiluted luxury (Klier mate);)

Oh come on Human. Some of you are worshipping this new Range, and I am not going to take part in that. This car needs to prove itself, first.
But first and foremost, it's design doesn't stike me as sexy, and the new GL does. Plus the new GL is a technical tour de force.
 
Oh come on Human. Some of you are worshipping this new Range, and I am not going to take part in that. This car needs to prove itself, first.
But first and foremost, it's design doesn't stike me as sexy, and the new GL does. Plus the new GL is a technical tour de force.

Some of the posts in the thread are hilarious. Would be an easier pill to swallow if you owned the RR or spent signifcant time in the vehicle. This thread is about the Range Rover not the GL. No one cares about your beloved GL. Go to the GL forum to discuss. BTW there is nothing sexy about either generation of the GL. I checked out the GL when I bought my 2nd RR ('11 and '05) and was unimpressed. Most of the GLs sold are 450s anyway which are priced significantly less than a RR. The real competior to the RR is the G class due to uniqueness of both vehicles.

I also checked out the '12 G before buying my '12 750. I really wanted to love the G. The exterior was awesome. I just couldn't get past the interior and the ride was horrible compared to the RR. Driving above 60 MPH was a chore. It felt like it was designed 30+ years ago and it was.

Some much talk about RR reliability, I've driven over 100K miles on both of mine without any problems. The Mercedes CLK 430 (my beater) I have has been a difference story. I never buy cars based on JD Power studies; though, if you look at the recent dependability results almost all of the
 
Accidentally hit post reply before finishing my last message. My point about JD Power studies is if you look at the recent dependability results, Land Rovers' problems per vehicle are lower than Lexus were in the early 2000s. Also there is a 1/2 of a problem difference between the top and last place manufacturers. All manufacturers have improved their quality.
 
The car is very common where I live, and I have driven pretty much every Range. At least three geneations. And they are great cars, just too big and heavy for here...but I can understand why people like Human and Martinbo like them, when you live in Africa and can actually use them for what they are meant for.
 
I actually start to like it more and more. It grows on me. But I still hate those taillights.
 
but I can understand why people like Human and Martinbo like them, when you live in Africa and can actually use them for what they are meant for.

But simply, you don't use it for what they're supposed for.

Because this:
the world's most unreliable, intrinsically poor quality.
When a Range Rover goes offroad it means it's on a flatbed of a recovery truck.

When you live in a 5th world like I do, with "roads" , and most important, their lack; like the one we have herein, you pretty soon discover RR capabilities are deep only as their publicity.
Without any hesitation, they make the worst dependable car in the world, and completely the opposite from the off road concept they preach.

Regards

PS: A nice gift for the weekend:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eliable-car-71-cent-years-old-break-year.html
 
"this vehicle is about exquisite craftsmanship"

- don't make me laugh! Range Rover is to exquisite craftsmanship as Lucas was to illumination. Jesus, you Range Rover 'aficionados' must think everyone was born yesterday. The world and his wife knows Land Rover is a byword for overpriced junk, making the world's most unreliable, intrinsically poor quality, vastly overpriced products, going strong since 1948. When a Range Rover goes offroad it means it's on a flatbed of a recovery truck. Do you really think coming on here and throwing around 'exquisite craftsmanship' trumps 60+ years of documented, second only to the Commies abysmal car building notoriety, poor product design and chronic product development track record?

I've seen first-hand the Solihull operation where these things get randomly thrown together - even after the collective best efforts of BMW and Ford over a period of 15 years - and the calibre of people who build, design and engineer - allegedly - these 'exquistely crafted' products, and I wouldn't take one if it was given to me. I value my life too much.

"ensconced affirmation for your shortened lifespan due to stress and personal reward."

- come again, in English.

The general point was not just 'acceleration'. I used it to illustrate that the claimed huge weight saving could not be so due to the inferior performance as against supposedly much heavier, steel-bodied competitors' products. I think I showed that in fact the weight saving was much more modest than trumpeted, around 200 kg, like for like, and the competitors' better powertrains, especially engines(the ubiquitous 8-spd ZF 'box is good), easily make up any actual weight disadvantage. Engines are far more important to final fuel economy and performance than weight, contrary to the received wisdom. A good, 'step-change' motor, like VAG's new 4-litre V8 in the Audi S8 and Bentley Continental, can make an obese product like the Continental overnight fuel economy wise and performance wise competitive, whereas removing 2-300 kg from a 2,500 kg base with a carryover, older engine would not, analogous to the new Range Rover.

So, try as you might to make this an 'obsession' with acceleration on my part, it was merely to show that a supposedly 'old-school', steel-bodied SUV, like the GL, will still out-perform an ally-body SUV, due to its superior engine and overall development of its powertrain, four wheel drive system, and general engineering clout of a firm like Daimler compared to JLR.

Being inferior in acceleration, top speed, fuel economy, emissions, interior space, price and no doubt product and build quality, is NOT an OCD-type obsession; it's the real world, of stuff like, er, measurable things, like, er, engineering. Cheers.
Ps - forgot to add my initial response doesn't make much sense 'cause I hit enter on my iPad halfway through. Blame it on the wine!
 
^ what I was saying at the time is that driving and owning a RR is a very special experience. We have a tremendously stressful life and it isn't easy trying to grow a business in this economy. We work ungodly hours and I usually have to wrap the evening up with a sleeping pill to try and get 6hrs sleep, before repeating another day of stress. So, when we drove from South Africa to Botswana 2 weeks ago for a safari in the bush, this car was a bit of reward and a huge pleasure to drive, at up to 160km/h when the roads were good. Fuel economy was good for such a heavy car (8.7l/100km). Great comfort, great sound system, fantastic off-road. And we swopped turns driving so the other could sit in the back and watch DVD's :)
For now, I have to say I love my rangie. If it packs up on me on a roadtrip, my views might change. But I'm not expecting it.
 
Let's try clear a few points up.

As 'Gianclaudio' says above, no one in real 4WD-requiring conditions takes Land Rover products seriously. When did you last see an NGO or a military with one? Even the British Army ditched the Land Rover(Defender). No one other than toffs in the UK - who, like the Queen's granddaughter, Sara Phillips, get them given free for advertising purposes - or parasites on the taxpayers' tab(politicians/senior civil servants/cops/security services etc.) have them. Farmers in the UK, once the bedrock of *real* demand for the original L/Rover(now called Defender), have long gone to Jap-mainly 4WD pick-ups; and the new VW Amarok is gaining market share.

Land Rover has abandoned real 4WD markets, 'cos they had their asses handed to them by the Japs, like from the Toyota Landcruiser and Hilux, from the 1970s onwards.

Land Rover should die. It's an embarrassment to the new managers at JLR. They wish they could just call everything Range Rover. The fact that they can't make a genuinely competitive 4WD utility vehicle to save their lives, like an Amarok, Navara, Landcruiser, Patrol, Gelaendewagen, etc., compels them to cater to the faux 4WD sector.

'Range Rover', the brand, is for wealthy poseurs, never likely to go near conditions genuinely requiring 4WD. The whole idea of an outright luxury SUV, or in reality a 5m/16' long, jacked-up estate vehicle, burdened with carrying around a weight penalty of circa 200 kg in extra hardware for 4WD, extra ground clearance and axle articulation, is the height of absurdity, when an equivalent 2WD limousine does everything required of it much better.

This means there is no competitor for the Range Rover. The Merc GL is not a direct competitor. Yes, as I have shown, it still beats the top of the range new L405 in every metric, but it is not conceived as a tart's parlour on wheels, as is the Range Rover. It's meant to be a up to 7-seater sports utility vehicle, with the emphasis on utlity; one that combines luxury/convenience features with this utlity. It is meant to be affordable to a sizable demogrpahic, hence it is around $30k-$50k less than the R/Rover.

As I said before, Land Rover has tapped into a recent phenomenon of an aspirant clientèle wishing to ape the lifestyles of vacuous celebs like Victoria Beckham(god help us), hence the large proportion of women buying the Evoque. It's a truism that the shorter the stature of the person the larger the vehicle they crave, to make up for their own physical and psychological shortcomings. These sad souls adore the ability to literally tower over other road users and mortals. The 'command position' of the Range Rover talks directly to these insecure beings.

What I'm saying is, that other car makers have not set out to make overtly, explicitly luxury jacked-up, faux-4WD estate cars, for short people. The Audi Q7 and Merc GL, for example, still have a shred of utlity decency and base engineering for purpose, before their luxury personas.

The success in the market place of the Evoque, the 2005 R/Rover Sport, and potentially, for a short while, the new L405, has unfortunately compelled other makers to follow suit. The still utility based 2013 Merc GL is not one of them, but the
concept from Bentley for an SUV is meant directly to challenge and oneupmanship the R/Rover. How sad that a magnificent engineering company like Volkswagen have to turn out tarts' boudoirs like the forthcoming Bentley SUV, because Land Rover has made such ridiculous vehicles acceptable, all because of their inability to compete on functional terms.

The Evoque is a joke in functional terms. It's massively over-priced, cramped inside compared to its cheaper competitors, uneconomical, suffers numerous quality glitches, is slow, dangerous to other road users due to its blind spots and cartoonish door mirrors, etc,. etc., but because some clown like Beckham was pictured pouting with it, 30s-, 40s-year old women would give their Gucci handbags to be seen behind the wheel of it, or not, as most are 5'2"(62 inches) tall.

My point is, Land Rover has basically entered into a kind of faustian pact. Due to their fundamental inability to make functional, reliable, value for money, proper vehicles, with a smidgen of pupose, for over 60 years, they've resorted to selling their soul for short term gain, by turning out cringe-worthy, land-going gin palaces, not vehicles as most people understand the term, aimed directly at the terminally insecure, mainly women, and those whose money probably comes from usurious banking, and other associated 'industries', designed to larceny wealth from the majority to the one-per cent of the one-percent, the oligarch and kleptocrat classes, with zero taste and zero conscience, 'ensconced' in their ersatz 'luxury' behemoths.

As with Faust, though, there's a quid-pro-quo, for selling out. First, others will copy, however much they'd really wish not to. And knowing VW group, the Bentley and Lamborghini SUVs will be top-notch, engineering wise. Then there'll be the flood of medium-range competitors, like the Porsche Macan, the BMW X4, the Merc MLC, and so on, in the next two years.

But secondly, what will really kill these ridiculous vehicles will be gasoline and energy prices. The more the central banks print to bail out their buddies, who buy these crazy things, the more it drives the price of gas/petrol, and food, and energy and so on, up, which is sending western economies into depression. Not only will be it like 2008 replayed, post Lehmans, it will be much worse, with no replay of the 2009-2011 fake 'recovery. People, including the 'aspirant' 'middle-class' females, will go back to functional, utility vehicles, if they can even afford that, and makers of small, fuel efficient, functional vehicles will be the only ones to survive. Which probably explains why Tata was rumoured to be trying to IPO JLR this year, before the expected crash of late 2012/2013. Too bad looks like they missed the boat, post the Facebook debacle. Cheers.
 
^ Man! I do believe you may be borderline insane!! Good grief, what a diatribe..
The one thing I do agree with is the challenge JLR currently face with the Land Rover brand. The Discovery is almost as good a place to spend time in as the RR Sport. But not quite.
 
^ Man! I do believe you may be borderline insane!! Good grief, what a diatribe..
The one thing I do agree with is the challenge JLR currently face with the Land Rover brand. The Discovery is almost as good a place to spend time in as the RR Sport. But not quite.

No problem, JLBM, being a R/R Sport owner I'd imagine most things must sail over your head, otherwise you wouldn't be a R/R Sport owner. My analysis is meant for persons with a modicum more sophistication, intelligence and perception.

Happy to discuss any factual points with you - except of course any gratuitous references to JD Powers' rankings, as any person in actual contact with auto industry matters, knows this source to be a joke - that you might bring forward to contest any of the points I made, re., for example, L/Rover vacating the 4x4 utility market due to a chronic inability to compete, or Tata testing the water over off-loading part/the whole of JLR, through the IPO route, to cash in, before the expected crash, or JLR's cynical use of celebs/the royalty angle to Bernaysian propagandise mug punters, into saddling themselves with big debt for fashion trinkets, especially preying on gullible women.

By the way, if you think I'm insane, you really should get out more. The world's most influential non-MSM financial matters website, 'Zerohedge', often has such 'insane' analysis, i.e., that which you won't find on the lobotomising mainstream media. For example, some nutjob(US citizen Jim Quinn) - no doubt in your terms - has just conducted an excellent analysis of the U.S.'s apparently 'booming' new car market, which chimes in with my world-view of the cynical exploitation by corporations of consumers, with apparent 'cheap' debt, and the outright lying about sales data, to give the appearance of recovery in the U.S. auto market, by stuffing dealers with inventory. see here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/subprime-auto-nation#comments Jim Quinn, 'The Burning Platform'.

Cheers mate.
 
Wow, so now I must be the antithesis of sophistication, intelligence and perception. And you figured that all out because I drive a RR Sport. You're amazingly perceptive yourself :)
BTW, I'm not a RR die-hard fan; it's my first one. And there is no guarantee I will stick with the product, but I am likely to return again - its darn excellent to drive.
 
Wow, so now I must be the antithesis of sophistication, intelligence and perception... because I drive a RR Sport.

- er, you might have missed where I made several, closely-argued points, about Land Rover/Range Rover, and was met with the stunning retort of insinuation of insanity. I think that's what's called 'ad hominem' attack, when the debater can't make a worthwhile, valid, factual or rational point in the argument, except apparently in this case, a tautological 'Range Rovers are great because Range Rovers are great'.

And to the moderator, before you start labelling contributions 'derogatory', you may care to look at someone insinuating, implying or alleging insanity, and done in the beginning. That's not just derogatory, it's called libellous. To call, imply or impute someone does not have sufficient intelligence or perception to see the sophistication of the points being made is a thing called debate and free speech. The fact is people do actually vary in IQ, and perceptiveness to entertain sophisticated argument in a debate. On the other hand, to dismiss someone as insane, or imply/insinuate the same, is not free speech but a lazy and sneaky way of shutting down debate, which when taken to extremes ends up with a returning, decorated US marine being sectioned into a mental hospital, without trial, for apparently voicing disagreement with his government's prosecution of a war; or as many people will be aware was used in massive form by the Soviet regime in Russia to shut down dissent, and disappear persons, by having them deemed mentally ill, akin to what our friend 'JLBM' instigated.

Let me repeat, implying, insinuating or alleging someone is insane, is, in my book, rather more 'derogatory' than implying, insinuating or matter of fact stating that someone appears, on the basis of previous exchanges, to not have the mental capacity to appreciate the detailed and nuanced arguments employed.
 
^ and on the basis of the above exchanges, I believe you are quite imbalanced!
 

Jaguar Land Rover

Jaguar Land Rover Automotive PLC is the holding company for Jaguar Land Rover Limited, also known as JLR, a British multinational manufacturer of luxury and sports utility vehicles. JLR, headquartered in Whitley, Coventry, UK, is a subsidiary of Tata Motors. Jaguar and Land Rover, with histories dating to the 1920s and 1940s, merged in 1968 under British Leyland. They later became independent and were subsidiaries of BMW and Ford. In 2000, BMW dissolved the Rover Group, selling Land Rover to Ford. Since 2008, Tata Motors has owned Jaguar Land Rover.
Official website: JLR

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