Range Rover Range Rover (L405)

[kras1]

I looked the UK autotrader for the huge drop off you claimed on the Evoque but by all accounts its holding extremely well and quite the opposite to what you are saying.

Same story in the US...didn't see anything unusual. From a new car standpoint, Evoque sales reached a record high last month so momentum is bldg.

 

[Kilcrohane]

Evoque sales reached a record high last month so momentum is bldg.

- from a company that's integrity is lower than a snake's belly, I'll give talk of self-proclaimed 'record sales' a pass.

JLR sales pronouncements are as credible as 1950s Soviet tractor production figures.

Funny how JLR now stand alone in being apparently unencumbered by the obvious headwinds in the global car industry.

Only today, Continental AG, one of the industry's largest Tier 1 suppliers, said demand was weaker than anticipated, year to date; in other, less spun words, demand in the global car industry - from its vehicle maker customers - has gone off a cliff.

VW is barely moving sales ahead of its 2012 level, even with the advantage of its huge presence in China, which supposedly is growing at 8% per annum - another total lie by the way.

And yet, with all this, and the huge collapse in Europe, we're expected to swallow the line that JLR sails on serenely, recording Soviet-like new production and sales records, for what, 20 straight months now?

Give me a break. JLR is a potemkin, a facade, a Ponzi. The senior managers must continue with the line of constantly rising, almost parabolicly upward sales performance, lest the whole false construct implodes.

It's relatively easy to report falsified record sales, when you are mainly reporting wholesale sales, rather than registrations. Loading inventory onto dealerships and national sales companies is easy. Registrations can be falsified by self-registrations, 'demos', increasing the frequency of renewal of management plan cars - an old technique of the British motor industry - , and so on.

As I said long before, Tata's first intention with JLR was to IPO float it in 2012, recouping its initial 2008 purchase cost and a substantial many fold profit on top, with Tata group linked analysts saying JLR was worth up to $20bn in 2012.

Tata missed that boat, and now JLR would not fetch a fraction of that inflated value.

Tata's strategy, as I explained before, is now to sell the line of 'runaway success at JLR', through its compliant media sycophants, in the UK and US mainly, with the now monotonous Soviet tractor production figure record sales figures announcements, whilst keeping real spend on JLR on a dripfeed, and hoping that its massive media PR operation will cover over the cracks, until the time comes when they can either IPO on the stock market it or flog it off to the next sucker in a trade sale.

Problem is, with the auto industry and global economy showing no signs of real recovery that time will almost certainly never come, and Tata are therefore stuck with JLR. Hence the increasingly more desperate and transparent attempts to convince the dupes that JLR is on a roll and everything is rosy.

The reason Ford got rid of JLR in 2008 was primarily the cost of developing a 3-series competitor for Jaguar. Ford knew that without a credible 3-series competitor Jaguar was finished as a brand, being unable to achieve viable economies of scale.

Ford knew that to make a decent Jaguar 3-series competitor would require several billion dollars minimum, and still sales success would not be guaranteed, as has been shown amply by Toyota and its IS.

Now that Tata is stuck with JLR, it too will know that Jaguar needs a 3-series offering and a Q5/X3 competitor, minimum. Contrary to the line being spun by its pet media outlet, Autocar, that this will be simply taken care of by use of the 'PLA' platform, the premium light architecture, that is nonsense, as that platform directly dates from the Ford-funded, 2002 Jaguar XJ.

Not only is that platform hugely outdated, and originally intended for a car size two classes bigger, above a 3-series size offering, but, as shown by the 2013 Range Rover and F-type, which share this platform, it makes for massively overweight cars.

Tata/JLR will therefore know that to do a serious Jaguar 3-series offering they will need to do a new platform from scratch, a la Cadillac/GM with their brand new, clean-sheet Sigma platform, for the ATS and CTS.

A serious Jaguar 3-series competitor would also require new engines. We're told JLR are doing this with their new 'Hotfire' 4 cylinders, but after almost two years of hype and many re-announcements, nothing of substance has materialised.

The mooted Jaguar 3-series offering, pencilled in for 2015 launch, therefore is the real acid test of Tata's medium to long term intentions for JLR.

If, as I strongly suspect, they have no real intention of doing a serious 3-series competitor offering, due to the huge cost, and far from certain sales success, then we can know that Tata's strategy is simply to hold on, keep using the huge advantage of a sycophantic anglophile media, and hope that something turns up, between now and 2015, which either allows them to float JLR on the stock market, or sell it off, for more than the 2008 $2.5 bn purchase cost.

 

[Kilcrohane]

For German speakers, worth a laugh:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/einzeltests/range-rover-tdv8-britische-massenbewegung-6791240.html#disqus_thread

Word must have already got back to Gaydon of the horror result of the Auto Motor und Sport test of the new Range Rover.

Looks like they've sent out their best German-speaking internet shill/troll, "Mathias", to attempt to stem the huge damage and herd the sheeple back to the UK/US press reviews view that the Range Rover is actually better than The Second Coming, and far, far better than the German competition, to hilarious results, including Mathias even imputing that AMS don't know how to weigh a vehicle, and hence the new Range Rover's weight is actually what Land Rover says it is!

Like his employers in Gaydon's marketing dept, Mathias is an incorrigible clown.

 

[Deckhook]

@Kilcrohane your comments continue to make my laugh.

 

[Laurent T]

Auto Zeitung is making a comparison test vs Audi Q7 and BMW X5. Would be interesting to see the results...

 

[Merc1]

It's going to murder those old vehicles.

M

 

[Kilcrohane]

It's going to murder those old vehicles.

you wish.

Back to reality. A £60k X5 50d would, to use your words, murder an £80k R/Rover V8 diesel:

380 hp versus 340 hp, 740 Nm v 700 Nm, 37 mpg v 32 mpg, 2.2 tonnes v 2.7 t, 0-62 mph 5.4s v 7s.

The new X5 will rip the lardy, unstable, hugely overpriced, antiquated - it's on a 2002 XJ platform - R/Rover further to bits.

Likewise, a 'new' R/Rover wouldn't see which way a Q7 V8 diesel went, due to it being LIGHTER, more torquey, and generally all round properly engineered, unlike the shambolic R/Rover heap.

The new 2-300 kg lighter, 2014 Q7 will show how REAL weight reduction is achieved and embarass the liars of JLR.

 

[Deckhook]

I doubt either the older X5 or Q7 will win anything other that an drag race but I've high hopes for both their replacements, especially the Q7 which has a special place in my heart. I believe the replacement X5 and RR Sport (its true rival) will be available to test drive later this year so I can't wait as both are on my radar.

 

[Merc1]

you wish.

Back to reality. A £60k X5 50d would, to use your words, murder an £80k R/Rover V8 diesel:

380 hp versus 340 hp, 740 Nm v 700 Nm, 37 mpg v 32 mpg, 2.2 tonnes v 2.7 t, 0-62 mph 5.4s v 7s.

The new X5 will rip the lardy, unstable, hugely overpriced, antiquated - it's on a 2002 XJ platform - R/Rover further to bits.

Likewise, a 'new' R/Rover wouldn't see which way a Q7 V8 diesel went, due to it being LIGHTER, more torquey, and generally all round properly engineered, unlike the shambolic R/Rover heap.

The new 2-300 kg lighter, 2014 Q7 will show how REAL weight reduction is achieved and embarass the liars of JLR.

You officially have a problem lol. All the stats and figures in the world won't help a X5 or Q7 against a Range Rover. The RR is a class above them and I don't care about no stinking diesels! Next Q7 isn't here yet either, making the current one "antiquated" as is the X5 vs the RR. It might be on a XJ platform, but unless someone told you that no one would know it based on its capabilities.

Are you a former JLR employee? Former dealership owner?

M

 

[martinbo]

Off-road, the Range Rover will murder both the current and future versions of the X5 and Q7.

 

[Merc1]

Interior and exterior wise also, no contest. Both the X5 and Q7 are outdated.

M

 

[JLBM]

Merc

You officially have a problem lol. All the stats and figures in the world won't help a X5 or Q7 against a Range Rover. The RR is a class above them and I don't care about no stinking diesels! Next Q7 isn't here yet either, making the current one "antiquated" as is the X5 vs the RR. It might be on a XJ platform, but unless someone told you that no one would know it based on its capabilities.

Are you a former JLR employee? Former dealership owner?

Merc1, he never answers the question about his history with the company. Bottom line is land rover products are the best off road suv's. period. For me, I never use the capability, even if I go to the bush for a safari. That's what game viewing vehicles are for. So I only need an SUV for my dogs. I need a more nimble driver, got my eye on a cayenne s diesel, it's amazing

 

[Kilcrohane]

You officially have a problem lol.

yeah, right. 'officially'? pompous, much?

All the stats and figures in the world won't help a X5 or Q7 against a Range Rover.

yep, those pesky things called facts keep getting in the way! Let's just hold hands, like good cultists, and believe that the R/R is mindless faith wise better.

The RR is a class above them

you're right in the sense it's usuriously priced, but in all other regards it's inferior garbage. Go and read the nearer the truth reports by AutoEvolution, Auto Motor und Sport and the tell-tale video by Autocar, showing its instability, again, and tell me with a straight face it's 'a class above'.

There's no arguing with cultists.

 

[Kilcrohane]

Off-road, the Range Rover will murder both the current and future versions of the X5 and Q7.

it might murder the X5 and Q7 - of course it won't when they are fitted with proper off-road tyres and a low-range box in the case of the Q7, ML and Touareg - but will it murder a Golf, an Opel Mokka, a 3-Series or a Cayenne? Answer, no:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/bilder/zehn-allradsysteme-im-vergleich-suche-nach-grip-6582583.html?fotoshow_item=61#fotoshow_item=59

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/testbericht/zehn-allradsysteme-im-vergleich-suche-nach-grip-6582583.html

Come on guys, stop this mindless worship of this infantile myth. As my stats above show, not only is the Range Rover beaten hands down by properly engineered, capable soft-roaders on-road, but also off-road is made to look the lumbering, understeering, overweight, overpriced hyped-up rubbish it is by the likes of a £20k Opel Mokka or VW Golf 4Motion.

This repetitive R/Rover adulation is tiresome, and not worthy of presumably intelligent, grown men and women. Leave the midless fanboyism to prepubescent males to where it belongs.

 

[gdm]

The same logic,all the overpriced german SUV are rubbish if compared them to the cost less but more reliable and comfortable Toyota LC series.

 

[Human]

Off-road, the Range Rover will murder both the current and future versions of the X5 and Q7.

The X5 SAV will never be a competitor off-road, also will the RR never be as dynamic as the X5. Apples with apples in that regard. The day BMW opts for a off-road chassis is the day they REALLY make a REAL SUV and that won't be a BMW no-more. And except for great events like the DAKAR of which BMW has won 2x times already with the MINI-brand, I can't be convinced that bundu-bashing is the ultimate recreational activity and the sole/main reason RR/RR Sport are being purchased for. In that regard I think Toyota's VX Land Cruiser remains a firm favorite.


And lets wait for the new/next gen. X5 and Q7's to make a fair comparison regarding interior/exterior. For looking at the VW Crossblue Concept (being a VW) the Germans aren't resting on their laurels.

 

[Deckhook]

@Kilcrohane, your comments deserve a thread all of their own and a reminder to everyone how entertaining reading Germancarforums can be.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK...... We all need a laugh now and then.

 

[Merc1]

yeah, right. 'officially'? pompous, much?



yep, those pesky things called facts keep getting in the way! Let's just hold hands, like good cultists, and believe that the R/R is mindless faith wise better.



you're right in the sense it's usuriously priced, but in all other regards it's inferior garbage. Go and read the nearer the truth reports by AutoEvolution, Auto Motor und Sport and the tell-tale video by Autocar, showing its instability, again, and tell me with a straight face it's 'a class above'.

There's no arguing with cultists.

I'm a culstist because I like a RR and don't hate them with every waking moment? Man you're really too much, I'm really laughing at the whole thing, it isn't that serious at all. Can you answer the question? Are you a former JLR employee or owner? Why so much hate???


M

 

[Monster]

I think most of us are here to have a bit of fun, relax a little after a long day's work, and discuss about the things we like with other people around the world.

 

[Mark]

Off-road, the Range Rover will murder both the current and future versions of the X5 and Q7.

When they run, perhaps...
I can't tell you how many times I've seen my neighbors' RR being towed on a flat bed... already at least 5 times in less than a year. Who on their sane mind would take one of these off road when they are not even reliable on paved roads?

I'm guessing many here will agree that one would be better off with the likes of a Toyota Land Cruiser or even a straight up Jeep Wrangler for that task...
I wouldn't even trust a LR Defender or for that matter any LR model on a trip far off civilization!