911 (997) Official: New facelifted 997 Turbo revealed

[Sunny]

I would definitely get a 997S over a 996 Turbo. Almost as fast especialy after the face lift and looks way better. And if automatic transmission is your thing, you have the option of PDK over the tiptronic. But then I am biased, I would even consider a 993 Turbo over a 996 Turbo. Not a big fan of the way 996 looks (except for 996 GT3 mk1).

 

[Merc1]

I would definitely get a 997S over a 996 Turbo. Almost as fast especialy after the face lift and looks way better. And if automatic transmission is your thing, you have the option of PDK over the tiptronic. But then I am biased, I would even consider a 993 Turbo over a 996 Turbo. Not a big fan of the way 996 looks (except for 996 GT3 mk1).

My thoughts exactly. The 993 was the best 911 until the 997 arrived. I absolutely can't stand the 996 series now. It really wasn't built like a Porsche should be either, especially interior wise.


M

 

[Sunny]

It really wasn't built like a Porsche should be either
M

Yup, just close the door of a 993 and the 996 one after the other. The 993 one closes with a mechanical thunk and the 996 one makes a wheezy plasticy noise. Never had an opportunity to try a 997 door.

 

[K-A]

Is the 997 constructed differently? I always thought it was the same shell/chassis, etc.?

Yeah the interior of the 996 SUCKS now when I look at it, 997 is definitely an improvement there.

 

[coolraoul]

I would definitely get a 997S over a 996 Turbo. Almost as fast especialy after the face lift and looks way better. And if automatic transmission is your thing, you have the option of PDK over the tiptronic. But then I am biased, I would even consider a 993 Turbo over a 996 Turbo. Not a big fan of the way 996 looks (except for 996 GT3 mk1).

My thoughts exactly. The 993 was the best 911 until the 997 arrived. I absolutely can't stand the 996 series now. It really wasn't built like a Porsche should be either, especially interior wise.


M

I second that completely. I would take any 911 over a 996, save for the fantastic 996 GT3. The other 996, Turbo or not, are the only 911 I do not like.

I reckon the 996 saved Porsche. But in the same time, it irremediately harmed its uniqueness. The 997 on the other hand tries, and mostly succeeds, in retaining the 911 spirit.

There is no way I would take a 996 Turbo over a 997 Carrera.

The 996 looks like shit, has an inferior reliability, a rubbish interior. Looks like a Japanese car, inside and out.
The 997 is gorgeous, more reliable, bettre build and finished (even if it is largely based on the 996).
In terms of power and drivetrain however, the 996 Turbo is considerably better though.

I really would take either a 993 Turbo (absolutely outclassed in terms of drivetrain) or a 997 over a 996 Turbo. I can't digest its build quality and looks.

 

[Pekka]

Sorry for the quick O/T question, but I'm trying to catch up on some P-Car knowledge, and have been lusting after 996 Turbo's with how relatively good the deals can be had on them these days.

If you knowledgeable Porsche folk were to consider buying either a 997 Carrera, or a 996 Turbo, which would you go for and why? Also, is there any good place to ask this? Or any good write-ups which focus on the pros and cons of each, in comparison with each other? Thanks.

Hey there!

First of all, the 993 is one great ride. It's classy, it's fast - but it's no daily driver. When you drive a 993 Carrera, you always need 8 grands in your pocket. The Turbos engine (plus the turbos) should be revised at roundabout 75.000 mls (~ 10-15.000 USD). Some words about the build quality. Puristic 911 drivers say that the 'real' 911 ended with the 964. This was the car with the highest build quality (also with the most problems - but that's another story). The 993 was 20% cheaper to build than the 964. A result of adopting the Kaizen-methodology.

Meanwhile the Porsche 911 is a mass product. You'll get Carreras for a steal. But Turbos, GT3, GT2s and RS-models (964) are extremely valuable and 'special'. 993 2S / 4S and 996 4S are also very popular. Ergo: It ain't easy to compare a 997 Carrera against a 996 Turbo.

Interiorwise, the used materials of the first 996s (until 2000) looked kinda cheap, right. But Porsche improved the quality of the used materials rapidly. Having driven a 996 FL I know what I'm talking about. If you go for a facelifted 996 (MY 2002) or a Turbo you won't feel like sitting in a Japanese car. BTW - go for a full leather interior (including dash).

From the technical point of view, the 996 Turbo is very reliable. You have a small turbo lag - but since the engine is based on the old and bullet proof Mezger (engine) block you don't have the problems water cooled (M96) Porsche engines usually have (RMS leaks, IMS failures). Plus you're driving GT1 history ...

The 997 Carrera is a great car. It's based on the 996 (compare the roof and you'll find no difference), it's a great daily driver AND it has 993esque curves. But the M97 engine has the same probs as the M96 has. No big deal and you can obtain a warranty package. But worth to be mentioned. FYI - according to Porsche, the 997 Mk. II has none of the M96s technical issues. But a facelifted 997 is much more expensive than a 996 Turbo. In the price range of the 996 TT you can only find 2004-2006 (pre-FL) 997 Carreras and/or Carrera S (IMO the 3,8L S is the better choice).

The GT3 models are great rides. They are puristic, wild, noisy and they are based on the Mezger block - but they also are expensive and no daily driver. In the other hand the GT3 is a track tool you can use in the daily traffic. I'd like to have one (probably a 997 in two, three years) and I'd take it over a Vantage.

Whatever your decision may be - you'll love it!

 

[Wunderkind]

I am more partial to progress and hence my preference to the latest 997's.

The last air-cooled engines of the 993 made a great noise. But it just couldn't heck it anymore. I suppose the lighter weight, and the more direct steering and suspensions of the 993 made for a more intimate driving experience and appealled more to the purists. But the 997 can do everything much better.

Don't get me wrong, I would not think twice if a pristine condition 993 Turbo S jumps in front of me at a realistic price. But these cars are now over 10 years and they are expensive to maintain.

 

[Pekka]

Right! This is what I experience when I jump from the 930 Turbo into the Cayman S. The old "Gusseisernen" (air cooled 911) are great fun rides and they accelerate quite fast. But on winding roads the new gen-Porsche feels twice as fast as the 930.

 

[coolraoul]

Yeah, no contest, th 996 and 997 are way easier to live with, beahve much better on the road. But the 996 has absolutely no soul. It is the least attractive of the whole 911 story. This is way I would take a 997 over a 996 any day.

 

[Pekka]

Any word on the mechanical operation of PTV? Porsche lists a mechanical limited slip differential in the press release but no real word on the operation of the rear axle. Does it use the superimposed planetary gearset like ZF's torque vectoring diff or is it just another braking system complement to an existing mechanical LSD?

At the moment Porsche isn't explaining how PTV exactly works. I've heard that PTV uses the braking system - but I hope for a mechanical solution like ZFs torque vectoring diff (see below). Hope to get more infos soon.

 

[klier]

Sorry for the quick O/T question, but I'm trying to catch up on some P-Car knowledge, and have been lusting after 996 Turbo's with how relatively good the deals can be had on them these days.

If you knowledgeable Porsche folk were to consider buying either a 997 Carrera, or a 996 Turbo, which would you go for and why? Also, is there any good place to ask this? Or any good write-ups which focus on the pros and cons of each, in comparison with each other? Thanks.

997 Mark II Carrera (S) with PKD, 100%.
996 is, like most above me said, the worst 911 ever made.

 

[K-A]

Hey there!

First of all, the 993 is one great ride. It's classy, it's fast - but it's no daily driver. When you drive a 993 Carrera, you always need 8 grands in your pocket. The Turbos engine (plus the turbos) should be revised at roundabout 75.000 mls (~ 10-15.000 USD). Some words about the build quality. Puristic 911 drivers say that the 'real' 911 ended with the 964. This was the car with the highest build quality (also with the most problems - but that's another story). The 993 was 20% cheaper to build than the 964. A result of adopting the Kaizen-methodology.

Meanwhile the Porsche 911 is a mass product. You'll get Carreras for a steal. But Turbos, GT3, GT2s and RS-models (964) are extremely valuable and 'special'. 993 2S / 4S and 996 4S are also very popular. Ergo: It ain't easy to compare a 997 Carrera against a 996 Turbo.

Interiorwise, the used materials of the first 996s (until 2000) looked kinda cheap, right. But Porsche improved the quality of the used materials rapidly. Having driven a 996 FL I know what I'm talking about. If you go for a facelifted 996 (MY 2002) or a Turbo you won't feel like sitting in a Japanese car. BTW - go for a full leather interior (including dash).

From the technical point of view, the 996 Turbo is very reliable. You have a small turbo lag - but since the engine is based on the old and bullet proof Mezger (engine) block you don't have the problems water cooled (M96) Porsche engines usually have (RMS leaks, IMS failures). Plus you're driving GT1 history ...

The 997 Carrera is a great car. It's based on the 996 (compare the roof and you'll find no difference), it's a great daily driver AND it has 993esque curves. But the M97 engine has the same probs as the M96 has. No big deal and you can obtain a warranty package. But worth to be mentioned. FYI - according to Porsche, the 997 Mk. II has none of the M96s technical issues. But a facelifted 997 is much more expensive than a 996 Turbo. In the price range of the 996 TT you can only find 2004-2006 (pre-FL) 997 Carreras and/or Carrera S (IMO the 3,8L S is the better choice).

The GT3 models are great rides. They are puristic, wild, noisy and they are based on the Mezger block - but they also are expensive and no daily driver. In the other hand the GT3 is a track tool you can use in the daily traffic. I'd like to have one (probably a 997 in two, three years) and I'd take it over a Vantage.

Whatever your decision may be - you'll love it!

THANK YOU!! And thanks everyone for their insights.

So the 996 Turbo is more reliable than the 996/997 Carrera's? I'm not so surprised as I've heard people tell me that the 996/997 Turbo motors are damn near bulletproof.

I gotta say, I REALLY REALLY want a 996 Turbo, I just think if I went Porsche, it would have to be the Turbo... Something about that "911 Turbo", hehe.

I dunno, if I get more serious I will intimately check out both cars extensively so I know what I'm getting into.

BTW, besides the obvious roof similarities, aren't the 996 and 997's literally identical, aside from the rear lights and front end? The doors, fenders, etc. for the most part seem the same to me? I haven't done a side by side picture or real life comparison though.

BTW, my Brother has an '87 930 (or 935, can't remember) Slant-Nose Turbo, AMAZING car.

 

[martinbo]

^ Exactly

Don't listen to the 996 naysayers... Post facelifted 996's are actually very reliable, interior quality is good and the performance... well, it's a 911 Turbo.

Incidentally, I was at dealer yesterday afternoon and they've got a couple of 996 Turbos in stock. All of them were in pristine condition and I was impressed at how timeless and elegant the 996 Turbo looks. Gorgeous!

 

[Pekka]

BTW, besides the obvious roof similarities, aren't the 996 and 997's literally identical, aside from the rear lights and front end? The doors, fenders, etc. for the most part seem the same to me? I haven't done a side by side picture or real life comparison though.

BTW, my Brother has an '87 930 (or 935, can't remember) Slant-Nose Turbo, AMAZING car.

Besides the exterior/interior design there were only marginal changes between 996 and 997 Mk. I (e.g. +5hp for the Carrera, new 3,8L S-model, new seats, 19'-chassis,...). The biggest change (except the design) was the introduction of the PDI-engine with the 997 Mk. II.

You can use a lot of 997 body parts on the 996:
>>porsche 996 umbau auf 997 turbo Video - - MyVideo
>>www.core11.de - Porsche Frontumbau 996 auf 997 C2/C4, GT3 oder Turbo

BTW - a 930 slant nose? Our project 930 has the lateral air intakes of the slant nose / flat nose.

To get not too OT - PM me if you have further questions.

 

[klier]

I think it's a European thing to dislike the 996. It's the most wrong 911 made, and you only see trash driving it nowadays.

 

[coolraoul]

Well, to me, the 996 looks too soft and has no character, no soul, it has lost the spirit. This is way I dislike it.

Ugly front lights, weak body, Carrera has no Porsche butt... Interior's not Porsche at at all.

Less soul and character than other 911...

 

[martinbo]

K-A don't listen to these guys - they've got anti-996, runny-egg-lights memories running around their minds.

We're specifically referring to the utterly fantastic, nigh-on worshipped by all (who matter) 996 Turbo.

What you're after is this, absolutely immaculate, everyday supercar:

UK Car Magazine at its zenith (it's just Carsmo trash now) called it the greatest car in the world. EVO still rates it as such:

Porsche 911 Turbo (996) (Pluses +) 911 for all seasons; (Minuses -) We can't find any reasons

Just speak to me, the old man, I'll set you right. All these whippersnappers couldn't even drive back in 2000.

 

[Mr Robert]

Yep, the FL model is still great even if the looks are not in line with the 964, 993 and 997.

 

[K-A]

K-A don't listen to these guys - they've got anti-996, runny-egg-lights memories running around their minds.

We're specifically referring to the utterly fantastic, nigh-on worshipped by all (who matter) 996 Turbo.

What you're after is this, absolutely immaculate, everyday supercar:

UK Car Magazine at its zenith (it's just Carsmo trash now) called it the greatest car in the world. EVO still rates it as such:

Porsche 911 Turbo (996) (Pluses +) 911 for all seasons; (Minuses -) We can't find any reasons

Just speak to me, the old man, I'll set you right. All these whippersnappers couldn't even drive back in 2000.

Gorgeous. I agree, the 996 Carrara's left a bit to be desired, but the Turbo is nothing to scoff at, one of the greatest cars ever. Regardless of what anyones opinions may be, the 996 is what took Porsche to their new level, the 997 just subtly refined and built upon the new theme and direction, while bringing back some heritage cues everyone missed.

I definitely don't think the differences, especially in the looks department are enough to call one beautiful and one "ugly".

My biggest problems with a 996 Turbo, in comparison with the 997, speaking only exterior wise right now, are the interior design, which got modernized quiet a bit with the latter, maybe the more dynamic side vents (simple mod), and the headlights to a small degree.... I do like the 997's more, but don't mind the 996's all tooo much. I actually think I might even like the a$$ of the 996 a tad more, or perhaps equally....

Does anyone have any side by side pics of the two?

 

[Merc1]

A 996 Turbo **may be** worthy, but I'd get a 997 Carrera. Either one will get you put in jail driving them hard on public roads. Still don't like anything 996 and the Turbo still has the same lacking interior and overall exterior styling compared to anything 997.


M