7 Series (G70) [Official] New BMW 7-Series / i7 (G70/G71)

[J.E]

Which one is selling the most in China, the G70 7-series or the W223 S-class?

 

[Rolf]

I saw a new G70 BMW 735i for the first time in KSA today. It was all black with 21inch wheels. Rental car and it was parked next to the W223 S450, which was also black. I took some pics and will post them later today. It looks better in real life than photos, but it is a strange looking car, especially the front, which I think is way over styled and too high. It made the S-class look like a one size smaller car, the extra height been the major difference.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Being one or two sizes smaller isn't always a disadvantage and doesn;t say anything about looking good or not

 

[dalab]

Which one is selling the most in China, the G70 7-series or the W223 S-class?

Despite the fact that some here (especially one) post nonsense figures, the sample is still not a real reflection, nor is it consistent or competitive, since the most "affordable" versions of the G70 are missing or are just being launched there.

Time to time, I calculate that from the next quarter it will be possible to evaluate the more "real" figures related to each one and just next year it will be possible to evaluate the "full" year 2024

 

[dalab]

What are you laughing at? explain yourself

 

[J.E]

What are you laughing at? explain yourself

Because BMW’s radical design to please the Chinese market sure is paying off…

 

[dalab]

Because BMW’s radical design to please the Chinese market sure is paying off…

Two posts above I answered you about the origin of these figures and why according to the information I think they would be a bit out of context, the boy in reference laughs because he has some deep problem.
There is a rush due to the desire that it go wrong, which will not happen

 

[Merc1]

Ok then. Let's compare the true first EVs from BMW and Tesla

Both i3 and Model S came in the same timeline (around 2014).

And I don't mean to compare the cars. I mean , to compare the EV development.

I think you missed the point.

M

 

[kiki voinea]

I think you missed the point.

M

I think I do. BMW does NOT give a crap about EVs. Still...

 

[Merc1]

I think I do. BMW does NOT give a crap about EVs. Still...

Interesting considering all the compromises they’re making and the money being spent on them. Just because they’re not good at it doesn’t mean they don’t care.

M

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Interesting considering all the compromises they’re making and the money being spent on them. Just because they’re not good at it doesn’t mean they don’t care.

M

I'm most interested to know how BMW's EV strategy is just so out of step with MB and Audi? I'm not saying it's worse or wrong, I'm just trying to understand how the strategic implementation has been so different. Did they lack the budget or technical capability to deliver an EV only platform or do they honestly believe the hybrid approach is the better solution, since the EV uptake in some markets could be well behind what the industry is anticipating. Australia definitely couldn't accommodate an EV only automotive landscape let along the likes of many countries in Asia, South America and Africa.

 

[Gor134]

BMW's EV only platform is a year and a half away isn't it? I don't think their strategy is necessarily bad, they just wanted to rush out some electrics for market share.

That said I don't think the i4 nor i7 are bad efforts. I'm more disappointed of the 5er/i5 as a whole.

 

[Sunny]

I'm most interested to know how BMW's EV strategy is just so out of step with MB and Audi? I'm not saying it's worse or wrong, I'm just trying to understand how the strategic implementation has been so different.

My own speculative take from placing bits and pieces from the news and interviews over the last 10 years as a disappointed BMW fan and an early EV enthusiast -

In 2012, BMW jumped into the EV pool early with the i stuff, way before most other legacy manufacturers. Unfortunately and predictably, that wasn't a big sales success. But instead of recognizing that, that was because of product market/time misfit with i3, i8, they concluded "no one wants EVs".

The backlash was that they completely stopped investing in i (and hence EVs). And pushed out the exec(s) that believed in EVs and promoted ones that don't. For them, EVs were just a passing fad that you had to pay lip service to satisfy regulators/score ESG brownie points, so they came up BEV/ICEV in one strategy. But then came was success of Tesla, there was a lot of shareholder pressure to rush out EV models, and only way to do that in short order was to double down on this BEV/ICEV in one strategy.

Australia definitely couldn't accommodate an EV only automotive landscape let along the likes of many countries in Asia, South America and Africa.

Why do people keep saying this? These are tiny insignificant markets for BMW. This is BMW group sales in 2022 -

Out of the 2.4M cars BMW sold in 2022, "Other markets" accounted for < 50k. That is just 2%! Even Asia - (China, SKorea, Japan) is ~100k (4%). Why will you decide your product strategy based on what 2% wants?

And one other point about Australia specifically - in the first 4 months of this year, Tesla sold ~2x as many cars as BMW/Merc - 14k vs 7k/8k (source), so, so much for Australia being a reason for to continue making ICEV.

 

[klier]

BMW's EV only platform is a year and a half away isn't it?

They have a great one but refuse to use it for anything but the iX. We could have had a sedan, wagon and whatever else by now on the iX platform.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

My own speculative take from placing bits and pieces from the news and interviews over the last 10 years as a disappointed BMW fan and an early EV enthusiast -

In 2012, BMW jumped into the EV pool early with the i stuff, way before most other legacy manufacturers. Unfortunately and predictably, that wasn't a big sales success. But instead of recognizing that, that was because of product market/time misfit with i3, i8, they concluded "no one wants EVs".

The backlash was that they completely stopped investing in i (and hence EVs). And pushed out the exec(s) that believed in EVs and promoted ones that don't. For them, EVs were just a passing fad that you had to pay lip service to satisfy regulators/score ESG brownie points, so they came up BEV/ICEV in one strategy. But then came was success of Tesla, there was a lot of shareholder pressure to rush out EV models, and only way to do that in short order was to double down on this BEV/ICEV in one strategy.



Why do people keep saying this? These are tiny insignificant markets for BMW. This is BMW group sales in 2022 -

Out of the 2.4M cars BMW sold in 2022, "Other markets" accounted for < 50k. That is just 2%! Even Asia - (China, SKorea, Japan) is ~100k (4%). Why will you decide your product strategy based on what 2% wants?

And one other point about Australia specifically - in the first 4 months of this year, Tesla sold ~2x as many cars as BMW/Merc - 14k vs 7k/8k (source), so, so much for Australia being a reason for to continue making ICEV.

Very informative. Thank you for your insight.

Australia is insignificant yes, but are we reading the same table? Asia accounts for 1million sales.

 

[Sunny]

Very informative. Thank you for your insight.

Australia is insignificant yes, but are we reading the same table? Asia accounts for 1million sales.

I should have been clearer, I meant Asia excluding China, SKorea and Japan all of which are favorable markets for EVs (maybe not Japan).

So out of the total 1M for Asia, ~800k is China, 80k is S.Korea and Japan is ~30k, leaving ~ 100k for rest of Asia.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

I should have been clearer, I meant Asia excluding China, SKorea and Japan all of which are favorable markets for EVs (maybe not Japan).

So out of the total 1M for Asia, ~800k is China, 80k is S.Korea and Japan is ~30k, leaving ~ 100k for rest of Asia.

Makes sense. ICE dependant markets are a drop in the ocean it seems.

The Japanese really dislike BMW lol.

 

[J.E]

Makes sense. ICE dependant markets are a drop in the ocean it seems.

The Japanese really dislike BMW lol.

Like the BRICS? The B in the BRICS is a diplomatic dwarf according some Israeli dude called Ygor Palmor.

 

[Matski]

The Japanese really dislike BMW lol.

The Japanese just really like Japanese cars. 98.5% of car sales last year were covered by 20 brands, only 4.5% of those sales were non domestic.

Mercedes is the only non domestic in the Top 10 best selling brands, at just over 52,000 units last year, compared to VW at 33,000, BMW Brand at about 30,000 (50k including MINI) and Audi at just under 20,000.

The B in the BRICS

Accounts for about 15,000 BMW's and about 5,000 Mercedes cars - it's interesting that in Brazil, Mercedes volume of Commercial Vehicles, Trucks and Buses is significantly more than the passenger cars (about 45,000).

 

[SCOTT27]

The BEV market is the equivalent of 1980’s Teenage Brat Pack Vampire movie “The Lost Boys”. Starring many “hot yung things” at that time. But where are they now? Older and put out to pasture. BEV’s are the same. When EQS is just a cloud, no one will be talking about the first generation. Same goes for everybody else.