2 Series [Official] BMW 2 Series Gran Coupé (F44)

[CrunchSlaughtered]

It wouldn't need to cost space if the platform was engineered to take it from the outset, the r...

The older Renault 5 is the wrong example. It has a longitudinal engine with the transmission and diff in front of it. Similar to Citroen Traction Avant and Renault 16

 

[Matski]

The older Renault 5 is the wrong example. It has a longitudinal engine with the transmission and diff in front of it. Similar to Citroen Traction Avant and Renault 16

I wasn't aware it used a longitudinal arrangement, interesting, but it still demonstrates how little space you need in front of the front wheels if the engine is behind the trans/diff.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I wasn't aware it used a longitudinal arrangement, interesting, but it still demonstrates how l...

But this layout can not carry a lot of hp. Bad traction.

 

[dalab]

I agree that in certain photos the 2GC has some angles in which it looks weird and incongruous, there are also other photos where it looks much better, but as I check faithfully with the C-class (which in photos does not say anything but IRL is fantastic), there are cars that must be seen in person

 

[Matski]

But this layout can not carry a lot of hp. Bad traction.

... solved by xDrive, and still has less understeer biased cornering forces.

Spoiler: "Back of a fag packet" maths...

I wanted to know what kind of differences we're talking...

So, based on a 1450kg car, 2.67m wheel base, centre of gravity height at 680mm, 60:40 weight distribution.. then morphed into 2.82m wheel base (front wheels 15cm further forward), and 52:48 weight distribution.

In terms of Tractive force before wheelspin....

In terms of lateral forces during cornering....

I mean... the maths supports the intuitive notions of less traction, but less push... so it doesn't really change anything, I just wanted to put some numbers on it.

As ever, if I've made any glaring cock-ups, I'm always keen to learn.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

... solved by xDrive, and still has less understeer biased cornering forces.

[SPOILER=""Back o...

I meant the bad traction for the longitudinal motor with the transmission in front of it. I can't see how the drive can be sent to the rear tires in this configuration.

 

[klier]

A representative of the "previous" school of BMW design that presents traces of the F10 5er and F...

The worst era in BMW history, imo. Cars looked good though, so there's that.
Glad the F gen is over.

It does make me wonder why more manufacturers, o...

Doesn't this defy the whole idea of creating an FWD car, which is mostly about interior space?

But aren't the designers supposed to start from the restricting factors and based on...

Yes, and BMW only has a couple of exceptions. The only one I know of is the Z8, which was never meant to be a production car when first shown as the Z07.
Another fine example would be the first gen on the new VW Beetle. It was meant to be a concept only but like the Z8 made it to production because of it's success.

Making a pretty one off design or concept car is something altogether different from making a production car. It could work, but complicates the whole operation significantly. It's almost like how it's much easier to tear down an old house to build a new one instead of fully restoring it, which takes much longer and is much more expensive as well.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

The worst era in BMW history, imo. Cars looked good though, so there's that.
Glad the F gen is over...

It's always the E65 that comes to mind, when the designers do not align their job with that of the engineers. The sketches are great looking but everything was lost in the translation.

 

[klier]

It's always the E65 that comes to mind, when the designers do not align their job wi...

From what I understand there weren't enough (financial) resources when they created the E65. Could be a mix of those both...

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

From what I understand there weren't enough (financial) resources when they created the E65. Could...

The chosen design didn't fit the projected car and all the harmony was lost. (The lack of money and time prevented them for finding a better solution).

 

[klier]

Indeed. There was some serious disconnect between divisions there. Because normally they let eachother know what works and what not. Design and engineering should be 'two hands on one stomach' (that's a Dutch proverb )

 

[SCOTT27]

I think the production E65 and E63 look a lot better than their initial sketches.

 

[dalab]

The chosen design didn't fit the projected car and all the harmony was lost. (The la...

The e65, since they bring it as a comparative example, works and does not work as an example.
1- In that case the sketches were respected almost completely.
2- Hopefully it is the same case with the 2 GC in matter that seems to dislike some and be a success like the e65.
3 - To me as most we found its design sensational (e65), and every time I see one more I like it, so many years later.
4- EL 2 GC is not bad, I agree that it has nothing to do with that beautiful sketch, but they did it that way because of sales tactics and they know a lot about that in the brand, it will be better digested over time
A pity that could not be done as the sketch but KIA is taking note

 

[klier]

 

[dalab]

Ouch, that's just an initial outline, not the final sketch

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Ouch, that's just an initial outline, not the final sketch

[/QUOT...

No, it was the good idea and the sketch that you posted is the already spoiled one.

 

[Centurion]

Yes, it's true that I do find the current A3 to be one of the most successful transverse layout FWD designs ever which is an exercise in making the most off a compromised base.

Yupp. The A3 sedan genuinely looks good unlike most small FWD sedans. Yesterday I saw an A-Class sedan and similar to the 2GC the rear box looks awkward from the side and rear 3/4.

 

[domleo999]

Spotted this car on the motorway today.

One thing I’ll say - it’s an unquestionable fresh and modern design. It’s an instant head turner as the design really intrigues you. The rear lights LED are razor thing like the X6. At first I struggled to realise there brand until I approached the side of the car.

That’s were the compliments stop. The rear is absolutely bulbous. The wheels (regardless of the spec) are too small for the vehicle. The grille is also very large for the car. It struggles with the same problem as the 1 series.

These recent FWD products are suffering from the same problem as the F20 pre facelift. The design sketches and renders work really well, but they get lost in translation when they rise to production.

 

[dalab]

One thing I’ll say - it’s an unquestionable fresh and modern design. It’s an instant head turner as the design really intrigues you. The rear lights LED are razor thing like the X6. At first I struggled to realise there brand until I approached the side of the car.

Being a new product that did not previously exist, also from a totally new segment, it seems very good that it is not recognizable at first sight, but that it attracts attention and is a head turner as you say it surprises me pleasantly, since that speaks well that It differs quite a lot from what abounds in this market line.

 

[braaf]

So I kind of saw this car in the flesh. It was not the best view but I did see the rear.

Honestly what I saw was absolutely terrible. Maybe a better view of the car will change my mind.

Still not as bad as the A Class sedan though but the CLA does look better.