Joy Defines the Future. BMW Vision EfficientDynamics Concept.

[Zafiro]

Nope. It is just anecdotal evidence of how history repeats it self and yet some people don't learn from it.

I never lived when people were riding horse's so I dont know how it is to live with a horse. I have grown up with engine sounds so a world without wonderful engines with a soul its not my thing. Luckily when it happens I'll be either old or dead. So I dont have to get used to anything.

 

[PanterroR]

I have grown up with engine sounds so a world without wonderful engines with a soul its not my thing.

Sorry, i've had to...

 

[Zafiro]

Sorry, i've had to...

Actually I was a born inside a car on the way to the hospital, but thats another story...

 

[PanterroR]

Coooooool! Was it a high revving mofo?

 

[Zafiro]

Coooooool! Was it a high revving mofo?

well, it was a "high screaming" mother

 

[PanterroR]

 

[EnI]

I never lived when people were riding horse's so I dont know how it is to live with a horse. I have grown up with engine sounds so a world without wonderful engines with a soul its not my thing. Luckily when it happens I'll be either old or dead. So I dont have to get used to anything.

Such attitude is very pro status quo, you know.

"Not in my life time."
"Life is too short to make compromises."
"I'm not gonna live forever, so no need to change & adopt."
"I like it here & now, don't care about the future - when I'll be dead."

But ... the life ... the universe ... It's all about constant change ("progress"), never-ending chaos, permanent mutations & adaptations etc.

So, it's kind a unnatural if standing still, defending status quo.


******

Sure people still ride horses - for fun, or sports. And there are still some cultures which use horses for transport. But the vast majoirty of humankind don't.

And the same case will be with full-petrol, full-diesel automobiles. They will be used in third-world countries in development, and for very specific activities (eg. private sports events etc). Until we run out of oil completely.


Mind without sustainable development raw material & energy prices will go up in the conjuncture times ... Earth population is grown ... China & India are developing rapidly - and today's tech & solutions when given in such mass-use as used today in Western world would kill the planet. Imagine Indians & Chinese having as many cars & such cars as seen today in your country ... And then imagine the pollution. And imagine the demand for oil.

Sustainability is the future. And be sure China will be the leader (since sustainability philosophy is very close to their culture) ...
We can just hope the "stupid Western white men" will be wise enough not to stand still & defend status quo too much & too long ... Otherwise we will become the underdeveloped world.
And I'm not pointing out the leaders only - but every individual & his / her responsibility to change her / his mindset soon enough, and adapt.

Yes, in 100 yeras we'll be dead. But our children, grandchildren etc. will be very much alive ... Imagine their living standard then if nothing is changed.

Current society is so much myopic in some regards ... That has to change.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

My answer about getting used to the future means that we will have to get over the whole "Driver's car" concept. As the future progresses, the driver involvement will be less and less until we reach a point where the car will drive itself.

Just because it's possible to build driverless cars it doesn't mean everybody will buy them. So no, we don't have to "get used to them" because there will always be a choice.

 

[Mr Robert]

Be sure the companies / brands who are all about sporty & driver oriented cars, and offering plenty driving fun will do everything their hybrids and even full-EV will be fun to drive. Perhaps not compared to E30 M3, but definitely compared to the other cars in the segment at that time.

This is my point exactly and the only reason I'm a bit worried. The bar will be lowered and companies will claim sporty behaviour in cars that by today's standard could never be called anything but dull. Maybe. Hopefully not.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Just because it's possible to build driverless cars it doesn't mean everybody will buy them. So no, we don't have to "get used to them" because there will always be a choice.

Exactly for how long will the choices last? There will come a time where Gov decides that it is MUCH safer to have fully automated cars than to have a human drive and cause traffic jams and accidents. The precision that can be had by computers cannot be matched by humans, and there is evidence to prove that by the trials done in SoCal with the Automated highway system. Saw that on TLC and Discovery Channel YEARS ago, so I'm sure they've come far along now, especially with DARPA's yearly robot-cars challenges.

This is my point exactly and the only reason I'm a bit worried. The bar will be lowered and companies will claim sporty behaviour in cars that by today's standard could never be called anything but dull. Maybe. Hopefully not.

Yeah, that's a scary statement isn't it. Like I said, we're going to have to get used to the future. But in all honesty, we're going to have to approach the future with open minds. After seeing this new concept, I think I'm much more open minded now.

 

[Mr Robert]

Yeah, that's a scary statement isn't it. Like I said, we're going to have to get used to the future. But in all honesty, we're going to have to approach the future with open minds. After seeing this new concept, I think I'm much more open minded now.

I'm excited as well, this concept nailed the looks and the spec sheet, the only thing left is the most important one; how does it drive.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Exactly for how long will the choices last? There will come a time where Gov decides that it is MUCH safer to have fully automated cars than to have a human drive.

Smoking is VERY bad for you but no government has banned it have they? Guns kill people, but hundreds of thousands of people own firearms....legally.

So what makes you think the self-driven car is moribund?

 

[NarutoRamen]

Smoking is VERY bad for you but no government has banned it have they? Guns kill people, but hundreds of thousands of people own firearms....legally.

So what makes you think the self-driven car is moribund?

Sure, smoking isn't banned, but it's Banned in pretty much all public places in most of the states, and especially Gov. owned property.

Guns, well that's a matter of the 2nd amendment for us Americans, but even then the gov is trying it's best to ban those too. But guns are banned a MANY countries around the world.

In all honesty, you can't have a half automated, half self driven highway system, it's not cost effective. Fully automated is far more cost effective due to very slim chance of accidents vs. humans driving and thus the need for emergency vehicles, personell, etc. Since the Gov runs the National Highway System, they will do what is cost effective. BTW, I'm not saying that it will happen in like 10 years from now, but it will definitely happen. Once again, it's not a question of "if" but of "when".

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Sure, smoking isn't banned, but it's Banned in pretty much all public places in most of the states, and especially Gov. owned property.

So, completely legal then? The public place issue is completely irrelevant. It's just rules to help make the use of cigarettes more socially acceptable, in the same way emissions regulations and airbags are just rules to make driving cars safer. It doesn't mean cars are going to drive themselves.

Guns, well that's a matter of the 2nd amendment for us Americans, but even then the gov is trying it's best to ban those too. But guns are banned a MANY countries around the world.

Really? What about the many guns used in sports and hunting etc? Guns are legal in most countries, with conditions, despite it being a tool for killing.

In all honesty, you can't have a half automated, half self driven highway system, it's not cost effective.

I agree. Which is why it won't happen. Just because the technology is there it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Fully automated is far more cost effective due to very slim chance of accidents vs. humans driving and thus the need for emergency vehicles, personell, etc. Since the Gov runs the National Highway System, they will do what is cost effective. BTW, I'm not saying that it will happen in like 10 years from now, but it will definitely happen. Once again, it's not a question of "if" but of "when".

I suppose you think we're all going to be in flying cars too? I think you've been watching too many Jetsons episodes.

The only way we will get anywhere NEAR to cars which drive themselves will be in advanced versions of radar cruise control systems which will take over on motorways, to reduce accidents and also reduce congestion. This isn't such a problem as motorways are dull driving roads anyway.

Do you realise how many millions will be lost every year in speed camera fines etc? No government will accept that.

 

[NarutoRamen]

I suppose you think we're all going to be in flying cars too? I think you've been watching too many Jetsons episodes.

I won't argue the rest and leave it as a difference in perception, but for this little gem of yours, I have to say something.

If you consider The Learning Channel (TLC), Discover Channel, History Channel, Science Channel, Military Channel and National Geographic as "The Jetsons", then yes, I'm watching the Jetsons. Also, the AHS (automated highway system) study was done in California so I know quite a bit because it was covered in news and newspapers quite a bit and we had to do a whole lot of news clippings for my previous science classes/projects.

Here are just some of my Jetson references.

PATH Study by University of Berkeley on AHS

Cost Effectiveness of AHS

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I've been thinking about the VED since I saw it at Frankfurt.

It looks good. If the 6 Series front end looks like this then people can rest easy.

However, an economical diesel/hybrid sports car kind of misses the point for me. If I buy a sports car economy is about 17th on my priorities, just below boot space. Number one for me is sound, the character of the engine etc. Just because they CAN do this, doesn't mean they should. This drivetrain would be great in something like a 3 series. What a car that would be.

It's a bit like someone saying you could experience the same taste sensations as a Michelin starred restaurant by eating a pill which takes 10 seconds to swallow. Yes it's quicker. Yes it's more efficient. But it kinds of misses the point of eating in restaurants.

If the future means a high performance car like this then I'll just accept it....and move onto some other form of enjoyment.

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

I've been thinking about the VED since I saw it at Frankfurt.

It looks good. If the 6 Series front end looks like this then people can rest easy.

However, an economical diesel/hybrid sports car kind of misses the point for me. If I buy a sports car economy is about 17th on my priorities, just below boot space. Number one for me is sound, the character of the engine etc. Just because they CAN do this, doesn't mean they should. This drivetrain would be great in something like a 3 series. What a car that would be.

It's a bit like someone saying you could experience the same taste sensations as a Michelin starred restaurant by eating a pill which takes 10 seconds to swallow. Yes it's quicker. Yes it's more efficient. But it kinds of misses the point of eating in restaurants.

If the future means a high performance car like this then I'll just accept it....and move onto some other form of enjoyment.

I think that you've missed the point and managed to confuse yourself here.

This car is about sustainability and minimising compromise, which ultimately adds value to the customer. The enviroment in which we operate, governed by legislative requirements, shifts in consumer preferences and social responsibility, demands car companies to produce vehicles that are far more environmentally friendly than what existed before. Failure for a company to evolve it's products will be detrimental to everyone- health and wellbeing of future generations, economic prosperity, environment etc. This condition is not discriminant- it applies to all car companies no matter what type of vehicle they produce.

Secondly, this is the way that a sports car whould be developed. It is both sporty and envirnonmentally sustainable. It minimises the compromise. The customer, who will pay top $$$ for this product recieves "this AND that" not a "this OR that". In essence, this powertrain serves to enhance the value to the customer; and that's a good thing.

I can't see how the charateristics of this vehicle can have any negative implications to a customer. It makes sense, it minimises the compromise to the product, and it's an advantage to the customer. If you're going to some other forms of entertainment, then go ahead, but i'll know where i'll be putting my money- and i'll feel less guilty to the environment and still have fun!

 

[NarutoRamen]

If the future means a high performance car like this then I'll just accept it....and move onto some other form of enjoyment.

Motorcycles bro, motorcycles.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I think that you've missed the point and managed to confuse yourself here.

This car is about sustainability and minimising compromise, which ultimately adds value to the customer. The enviroment in which we operate, governed by legislative requirements, shifts in consumer preferences and social responsibility, demands car companies to produce vehicles that are far more environmentally friendly than what existed before. Failure for a company to evolve it's products will be detrimental to everyone- health and wellbeing of future generations, economic prosperity, environment etc. This condition is not discriminant- it applies to all car companies no matter what type of vehicle they produce.

Secondly, this is the way that a sports car whould be developed. It is both sporty and envirnonmentally sustainable. It minimises the compromise. The customer, who will pay top $$$ for this product recieves "this AND that" not a "this OR that". In essence, this powertrain serves to enhance the value to the customer; and that's a good thing.

I can't see how the charateristics of this vehicle can have any negative implications to a customer. It makes sense, it minimises the compromise to the product, and it's an advantage to the customer. If you're going to some other forms of entertainment, then go ahead, but i'll know where i'll be putting my money- and i'll feel less guilty to the environment and still have fun!

What a complete load of waffle. How about the fact that the drivetrain will be very, very dull? A 1.5 diesel combined with two electric motors?

No, I have not missed the point. I understand why more environmentally friendly cars are needed, and as a drivetrain the VED is very impressive. Hence I said this drivetrain in a 3 series would be an amazing car. However, if this drivetrain was combined with a very dynamic, sporty car like BMW's answer to the R8, with a similar pricetag, then it's completely pointless. To do that assumes the engine's sound and the emotional connection you have with it, is irrelevant. Which is not the case at all. The engine is just as important as the way it handles and both are equally important.

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

What a complete load of waffle. How about the fact that the drivetrain will be very, very dull? A 1.5 diesel combined with two electric motors?

No, I have not missed the point. I understand why more environmentally friendly cars are needed, and as a drivetrain the VED is very impressive. Hence I said this drivetrain in a 3 series would be an amazing car. However, if this drivetrain was combined with a very dynamic, sporty car like BMW's answer to the R8, with a similar pricetag, then it's completely pointless. To do that assumes the engine's sound and the emotional connection you have with it, is irrelevant. Which is not the case at all. The engine is just as important as the way it handles and both are equally important.

You really need to give this more thought.

How can you say that this powertrain will be dull? It is still a prototype and the final product has yet to be released. It would be premature to claim this solution to be dull when the final solution itself has yet to be released onto the market.

Character can still be "engineered" into a vehicle's powertrain. Diesel engines, combined with electric motors will give you ample torque to generate strong acceleration. And if you want the the noise, then consider the acoustic work to be done on the Fisker Karma- that car will be engineered to resonate a sound that's similar to a F1 car.

As for your notion that an environmentally friendly drivetrain combined with a sporty car is "pointless"? That's just utter rubbish.

An efficent drivetrain and a sporty car are not mutually exlusive. Both characteristics don't diminish one another. They can both co-exist and with further development, both can only enhance and strengthen one another. There is no engineering or economic law that prohibits a car from being engineered to be both efficient AND sporty.

The company that can present such a product to the market in the quickest time as possible will have the competitive advantage. The new Porsche CEO has said that they have planse to present such a solution within the next 5 years, and Ferrari has recently transacted patents of efficient drivetrains to be integrated into future vehicles. I can't imagine both Porsche and Ferrari to be making dull powertrains. You would have to really underestimate their engineering prowess to do so.

The upcomming MB SLS with it's electric powertrain is another case in point. It would be absolutely foolish to presume this vehicle, with it's efficient drivetrain and sporty body style, to be dull and pointless without having actually driven it.