Future of BMW's M Division

[EnI]

M officails have said to expect anything but diesel & supercharged powerplants in the M cars: so, with X5M / X6M we got M SUV, turbo, auto gearbox & AWD. So, these solutions are not taboos any more.

What's still missing is V6 & hybrid tech in an M car.

Coming soon ...

V6 is very much on agenda, but will PROBABLY NOT be premiered in the next 3er (and M3) but later in some other BMW model.

But it can happen earlier ... don't be surprised.

Why V6? Better configuration for turbo & hybrid tech: engine is smaller (more compact), turbocharger placement is easier, engine isn't as tall etc. Disadvantages: heavier engine & more vibrations (not as refined running).

So, preliminary simulations show V6 still has advantages over I6 - and the possibly higher development costs (eliminating vibrations, light-weight construction) are easily eradicated with simplier design (lower development costs engine design wise) & cheaper production & module engine design approach (V12 - V8 - V6) - not to mention advantages (if engine weight is reduced!) on car handling due compacter engine & therefore better weight distribution - especially in the case of hybrid or AWD tech on board.

So current advantages I6 turbo over V6 turbo are: lower weight & run refinement. In all the other respects V6 is superior - especially design / engineering / construction wise.

When BMW engineers figures out to lower the weight @ low costs & eliminate vibrations @ acceptable costs - then be ready for V6.

Btw, with hybrid tech turbo-lag is not existent since the electro motor contributes to linear power curve.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

This was written in Road and track in 2001. Seems like the idea of a V6 for BMW is not qiute new. Maybe it takes a long time for development

 

[bmwownage]

It's kinda ironical, BMW have been selling how I-6 "was" the best configuration (for 6cylinders at least) and some years later V6 is superior. I know technology changes and things change but sometimes just for the sake of keeping a tradition, can't they compromise a little? Afterall running refinement as Eni said is still an advantage of the I6, isn't this perfect refinement of engines part of what defined BMW? I also believe it's not bad for marketing for keeping the I6... it is pretty much general knowledge for someone who followed a bit on cars that I6 and BMW is mated.

 

[SKY]

I drive two Mercedes with the 320 CDI engine, a 2004 E 320 CDI and a 2008 ML 320 CDI. The first one is an I6 with 204hp and the second one a 224 hp V6. The ML´s engine is by far a better engine, the sound is much better, and it´s less noisier.

 

[SKY]

M officails have said to expect anything but diesel & supercharged powerplants in the M cars: so, with X5M / X6M we got M SUV, turbo, auto gearbox & AWD. So, these solutions are not taboos any more.

What's still missing is V6 & hybrid tech in an M car.

Coming soon ...

V6 is very much on agenda, but will PROBABLY NOT be premiered in the next 3er (and M3) but later in some other BMW model.

But it can happen earlier ... don't be surprised.

Why V6? Better configuration for turbo & hybrid tech: engine is smaller (more compact), turbocharger placement is easier, engine isn't as tall etc. Disadvantages: heavier engine & more vibrations (not as refined running).

So, preliminary simulations show V6 still has advantages over I6 - and the possibly higher development costs (eliminating vibrations, light-weight construction) are easily eradicated with simplier design (lower development costs engine design wise) & cheaper production & module engine design approach (V12 - V8 - V6) - not to mention advantages (if engine weight is reduced!) on car handling due compacter engine & therefore better weight distribution - especially in the case of hybrid or AWD tech on board.

So current advantages I6 turbo over V6 turbo are: lower weight & run refinement. In all the other respects V6 is superior - especially design / engineering / construction wise.

When BMW engineers figures out to lower the weight @ low costs & eliminate vibrations @ acceptable costs - then be ready for V6.

Btw, with hybrid tech turbo-lag is not existent since the electro motor contributes to linear power curve.

What about a F10 M5 with a V6 + KERS?

 

[EnI]

It's kinda ironical, BMW have been selling how I-6 "was" the best configuration (for 6cylinders at least) and some years later V6 is superior. I know technology changes and things change but sometimes just for the sake of keeping a tradition, can't they compromise a little? Afterall running refinement as Eni said is still an advantage of the I6, isn't this perfect refinement of engines part of what defined BMW? I also believe it's not bad for marketing for keeping the I6... it is pretty much general knowledge for someone who followed a bit on cars that I6 and BMW is mated.

Tech is changing - and therfore car design (car architecture) ... We are entering turbo & hybrid era. And for this era V-configuration is more appropriate & better solution for 6+ cyl engines.

Turbo & hybrid tech dictate compact engine design - to free some space for turochargers, electromotors, batteries etc.

And V6 design is more compact than I6 design.

Engine bay has a certain volume - and when you have to add additional tech (turbo, hybrid etc) you have to either increase engina bay volume or reduce the size of the existing components (engine, cooling systems, suspension etc).

Not only engines are the victims of such change - also the suspension solutions will be designed in a way to fit new packaging better.

Be sure larger engine bay (and thus larger car) would compromise driving dynamic & BMW image more than V6 in a car with superb driving dynamics & handling.

And BMW is much more about superb driving dynamics than refined engines. So, the priorities are clear - when & what can be compromised a bit & what not.



Sure they could find I6 solution as well - but in that case development & production will be costly, and therefore car price will be higher- making the cars not competitive anymore - or reducing BMW profits sharply ... which would affect future projects. So, not an option at all.

 

[Levi68]

If BMW M will start building bad cars, such as Porsche Cayenne, Porsche Panamera, Porsche 911 Carrera D / 911 Diesel, why cannot BMW M bring back M CSL with true M engines all the rest that goies with it, aside they standard M line, just as Porsche has the 911 GT3 range, that sells aside the other that bring the money?
I mean with the money of Cayenne, Porsche can build 911 GT3, so can BMW M with the money of X6 M build M3 CSL (not GTS).

 

[Mr Robert]

As I said before; just because Porsche and the others can do it and do it well, doesn't mean BMW can. They would, no doubt, do if they could.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

As I said before; just because Porsche and the others can do it and do it well, doesn't mean BMW can. They would, no doubt, do if they could.

Or even have the desire to. If they think they can get away with milking the image of "M" without actually producing the goods then they will do it.

 

[Levi68]

So if BMW can't it means they are not good, AMG and RS are better than M, and forget comparing it to Porsche.

 

[Cashmere]

now with rumours errupting about a X3 M which will have the same engine as the 1M I think its safe for me to officially bid farewell to this brand. The cannibalization of the M letter continues

 

[chonkoa]

now with rumours errupting about a X3 M which will have the same engine as the 1M I think its safe for me to officially bid farewell to this brand. The cannibalization of the M letter continues

It is safe to say the engine in the 1M is a big disappointment-more of an anti-climax in my POV. Not enough differentiation from the base 135 engine to warrant the price premium.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

now with rumours errupting about a X3 M which will have the same engine as the 1M I think its safe for me to officially bid farewell to this brand. The cannibalization of the M letter continues

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! This is getting ridiculous. What is the point of M?

 

[Zafiro]

It is safe to say the engine in the 1M is a big disappointment-more of an anti-climax in my POV. Not enough differentiation from the base 135 engine to warrant the price premium.

Your are not exactly paying for the engine alone. 1M use the same chassi, brakes, mechanical diff as M3. And then we have the bodykit and extra power. Reviews so far say the drive is different from 135i. I would gladly buy a 1M if I had the money.

But I agree that M could have built the engine from scratch but BMW claim it would cost too much to develop and the price would be much higher than it is today. I dont think people would pay the price of a M3 to get a 1M.

 

[Zafiro]

What is the point of M?

To earn money, to make a statement and offer a different drive from ordinary bimmers.

 

[klier]

Aaaah, this is the thread full of V6 nonsense and crying fans.

::slowly backs off::

 

[PanterroR]

now with rumours errupting about a X3 M which will have the same engine as the 1M I think its safe for me to officially bid farewell to this brand. The cannibalization of the M letter continues

Shall we tell admin to change your nick then?

Aaaah, this is the thread full of V6 nonsense and crying fans.

::slowly backs off::

Indeed...

 

[Zafiro]

Aaaah, this is the thread full of V6 nonsense and crying fans.

::slowly backs off::

Seen my signature?

“BMW straight six, the sequel: a great concept, masterfully improved. Those people who still want a V6, please stand up”

 

[south]

now with rumours errupting about a X3 M which will have the same engine as the 1M ...

That's doubtful as all rumors (I know of) indicate that the X3 M will get an early version of the F3x M3 engine.

It is safe to say the engine in the 1M is a big disappointment-more of an anti-climax in my POV. Not enough differentiation from the base 135 engine to warrant the price premium.

I tend to disagree:

135i (LCI): $ 39,925
E92 335i: $ 44,025

1M: $ 47,010
E92 M3: $ 59,775

To me that looks like a pretty decent price for what you get (M3 suspension, brakes, LSD, etc).


Best regards,
south

 

[martinbo]

To be precise, the 1M doesn't get the M3's brakes - it gets different, even better, six pot caliper brakes.

Thanks south. I assumed the 1M would get 6 pot calipers a la 135i with drilled discs - not what appear to be the regular floating caliper jobs...