Discussion on new V12 engine

[Executivesedan]

The smoothest, most powerful and luxurious ride of them all. The mighty V12.

I guess some of you noticed the announcement about a year ago where stated was that AMG is to take over the V12 development. Not much has been added on this front since then and the announcement was in my opinion rather subtle in terms of sources, which is not to say that I have doubts though.

The M275 leading to the imo too slightly modified M279, which is basically the same engine, has been around for over ten years! Aren't the high-end customers crying out for a new one? Perhaps I underestimate the environmentalism in this context for the manufacturers with stringent emission regulations, fuel taxes etc. Maybe this is the main reason. I don't know.

Anyhow, I wanted to create a thread where a new Mercedes-Benz V12 can be speculated upon and discussed as there doesn't seem to be much action and information on the subject. So please, feel free to post opinions, speculation, news, links etc.

Long live the *fingers crossed* immortal V12.

 

[Wolfgang]

Some links.

Some previous discussion:
http://www.germancarforum.com/community/threads/future-strategy-for-mercedes-v-12-engines.46370/

The S600 and S65 AMG might be revealed soon:
Mercedes-Benz has confirmed the S500 Plug-in Hybrid for the Frankfurt motor show in September, at which point the V12 models – including the S600 and S65 AMG – are also likely to debut to book-end the range.

 

[HighestOfHigh]

Great Info @Wolfgang!

 

[Executivesedan]

Yeah, thanks for that. Here's another link suggesting that the M279 will stick around for quite some time. Why wouldn't it when it's a recent upgrade. I still have wet dreams about a new one though.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/113041156414/mercedes-v12-engine-safe-for-a-least-five-or-six-years

 

[Merc1]

I guess we won't get an all-new V12, but a thoroughly reworked one.

M

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Yeah, thanks for that. Here's another link suggesting that the M279 will stick around for quite some time. Why wouldn't it when it's a recent upgrade. I still have wet dreams about a new one though.

I would recommend an appointment with either a urologist or psychiatrist for that issue. Good luck!

(Sorry, man, if didn't post that, I wouldn't be able to fall asleep all night)

 

[mini_cooper4]

Nah, no new V12. Was there even a question

 

[Executivesedan]

I guess we won't get an all-new V12, but a thoroughly reworked one.

M

Sounds realistic, but I just don't want to believe it yet.

I would recommend an appointment with either a urologist or psychiatrist for that issue. Good luck!

(Sorry, man, if didn't post that, I wouldn't be able to fall asleep all night)

Maybe you're the one who should see a psychiatrist with that issue

Nah, no new V12. Was there even a question

Well, I mean seeing as they made the announcement that AMG is taking over the development, then development of what? Another tune of the M275? Then there's no difference from before? The M279 was around before the announcement. Are they simply taking over manufacturing of the engine for the (current) 600? Development seems to be the wrong term in that case. Semantics...

All of this beats me. Please, anyone who can, fill me in on this.

 

[Gullwing]

The Bentley 6.75 V8 was around for how long? Why does MB need a new V12 every 5 years?

 

[LaArtist]

^its still around in the Mulsanne.. reworked but essentially its the L series 6.75l V8

its been around since 1968 and was developed in the 50s

 

[Wunderkind]

At most, I think we would see a heavily reworked Mercedes V12 with a new head, valve train, and latest direct injection. The block needs little or no modification.

 

[Executivesedan]

Okay, so the announcement basically said further development of existing V12 plant will be carried out by AMG, as well as the 600 engine will be manufactured by AMG?

The Bentley 6.75 V8 was around for how long? Why does MB need a new V12 every 5 years?

Every 11 years

 

[Nik47]

AMG says V12 engine will live on with hybrid tech; rules out hypercar

AMG chief Tobias Moers has announced the V12 6.0-liter engine will not be discontinued in the foreseeable future.

In an interview with Autocar, Moers said the twelve cylinder engine will have to be overhauled and will be electrified as a method to meet more stringent CO2 emissions. Due to cost concerns, AMG will not add four cylinders to the newly developed twin-turbo V8 4.0-liter but instead will focus on optimizing the old V12 since the customer base is small and doesn't justify making such a significant investment.

Moers also mentioned there aren't any plans to build a hypercar since "AMG is not at that level to do that. Not yet at least." He went on to say a Black Series model is not in the pipeline at the moment but we already know the GT will receive the treatment several years from now.

Starting with the GT and C63s, all fully fledged AMG models will be sold with the "Mercedes-AMG" branding. Moers specified the GT will not get an all-wheel drive version nor any diesel engines, but all future rear-wheel drive AMGs will be equipped as standard with a limited slip differential.

source : AMG says V12 engine will live on with hybrid tech; rules out hypercar

 

[Rolf]

Yes the customer base will be small as most people will buy the S350 BlueTEC, S500 V8 and now the Hybrid models S300, S400 and S500 Plug In will become the most popular models. The appeal of the V12 engine has changed in recent years due to the downsizing phenomenon for better economy/emissions. Before the V12 was always associated with wealth, higher power and smoothness than V8, top notch refinement, but nowadays it is becoming more and more rare. I am still from the old school so the V12 will always be the dream engine, as before the top performance cars of the 70's, 80's and 90's (Ferrari, Lambo, Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes) all used this type of engine for its top models.

I really hope that eventually they will replace it or at least hugely modify the current one to make it more modern and efficient, like fit 4 valve heads, direct injection, cylinder deactivitation, electrified turbos, variable valve timing and lift, exhaust re circulation, 9G-Tronic, hybrid motor on gearbox/motor etc.

 

[Rolf]

I wonder if this engine ever materialized?
MERCEDES M120 V24 ENGINE

The V12 M120 engine is clearly one of the best petrol engines Mercedes every made. Yes The 3 Valve modern equivalent is good it’s just not as good as the M120.

Despite a lot of press coverage early reports of a V24 engine designed for the Maybach never materialised, just the picture above. It’s our opinion that the real obstacle to this was a lack of transmission able to handle the torque. Its “easy” to make an engine out of two but you cannot do the same with the Transmission, not without a LOT of engineering. Clearly this is proven by how long it took Mercedes to get the 722.9 Transmission to accept the torque from the M275 V12 Engine.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

AMG boss promises V12 engine will survive -- as a hybrid

The twin-turbocharged powerplant initially debuts in the AMG GT, producing 456 horsepower and 443 lb-ft of torque for the base model. Consistent with other AMG engines, each mill is hand-built by an individual technician.

"The engine will replace our 5.5-litre engine," AMG head Tobias Moers told Autocar.

The company will switch to traditional assembly-line production as the 4.0-liter engine makes its way into other models, including lesser Mercedes-Benz offerings that lack an AMG badge.

Despite the switch to a lower-displacement V8 for many models, the company promises to keep the 6.0-liter V12 in the lineup. It will receive significant revisions to reduce fuel consumption, adding some form of hybrid technology.

Moers recently confirmed that AMG will eventually offer the GT in Black Series guise, though he now cautions that no Black Series models are currently under development. The executive also downplayed rumors of an all-wheel-drive variant and a diesel-powered edition.

Read more: http://www.germancarforum.com/amg-boss-promises-v12-engine-to-survive-with-hybrid-tech.html#ixzz3HOnJ4EG5

 

[Wolfgang]

Some pictures of the M120.

Engine display at the Pagani factory -- wikipedia

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

I am not too aware of concept cars pre-1992, but if the C112 doesn't look like there version of the NSX..

 

[Wolfgang]

^ Here's one from 1969, the C111. The Mercedes Museum and the Classic Center restored the original into driveable condition recently, even installing the V8, a M117 with an estimated 350 hp. It will be shown in the museum this summer, from April 28 to November 15, 2015.

Mercedes-Benz C 111.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

^ Here's one from 1969, the C111. The Mercedes Museum and the Classic Center restored the original into driveable condition recently, even installing the V8, a M117 with an estimated 350 hp. It will be shown in the museum this summer, from April 28 to November 15, 2015.

So no Wankel rotary?