Premium architecture) That's a marketing BS. You'll never feel the difference in the city driving between the premium RWD platform and the premium FWD platform.
Gone off track The pointless discussion on FWD vs RWD from G45 X3 thread
- Thread starter MercFan
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In some cases, FWD cars can feel easier to drive around cities and at low speeds. I once rented a Kia Sportage for work. Drove it for 2 hours straight. I enjoying the driving experience, it was more agile than expected. There wasn't a single moment that I wished that it was RWD.
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- Martin
All my life I’d driven FWD and AWD (Subaru) cars. I only made the switch to RWD about 10 years ago. I will never go back to FWD, or FWD-based AWD. I can so easily tell the difference between the two. There is nothing premium about any FWD platform’s driving experience. The only marketing BS out there is that peddled by FWD marketers. RWD exists for a reason.
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- Giannis
Same here. I've made the switch, though, just 3,5 years ago. Once you go RWD, you never come back.
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What's the most fun or.......least awful FWD car that you have driven?
It feels like you've been driving shit all your life))) Try Q7/Cayenne/Urus for example and tell me how its chassis is worse than that of an X5 or a Genesis G90)
P.S. I still own my E90 335i and love it. But in the city it is no better than a quattro or even FWD A4. It is worse)
Tuffode
Diesel Dynamiker
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I've never owned a FWD car, only RWD. I don't actually agree, tons of FWD cars I want to own and enjoy driving.
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- Rolf
I fully agree that RWD cars such as BMW and Mercedes are ultimately better to drive and more fun than FWD cars or FWD based AWD cars. There is a big difference in their steering, where the FWD cars even the well-sorted ones will always feel jagged under hard acceleration or cornering while the RWD steering is always smoother and more precise. The only FWD car I have owned where it was a very fun experience to drive was the Mk2 Golf GTI, where it hanged its tail out during hard corning and lift off and had sharp steering.
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- Marcus
What? So because some drivers can’t tell the difference, that doesn’t mean the difference isn’t there. It is absolutely more expensive to build a RWD vehicle vs an FWD one, doesn’t matter if you know the difference or not.
M
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- Rolf
There is a definite difference between driving a premium RWD and premium FWD car. Under normal and relaxed driving conditions in a straight line then they harder to differentiate, but the major difference is when they steer and when accelerating. After I sold my E90 3 series I bought a Volvo S60 and you can tell the BMW felt different, it had less corruption in the steering when cornering even at light loads and the steering felt a lot sharper and precise, with the rear wheels giving better traction when accelerating in a straight line and out of corners. It also had a much smaller turning circle and when doing a U-turn or 3 point turn it would sometimes only require 2 turns whereas the Volvo would need 3 or 4. The BMW also had better tuned damping, with less body roll and the Volvo would have much more understeer.
Give me the numbers showing that CLAR or MRA is more expensive than MLB in development or in production. Don't bother. I know you can't)
And all the drivers say that a Cayenne is a better drivers car than an X5)
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Why are we even discussing this?
May I put forward the next subject: Can pigs fly? And is water wet?
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- Marcus
There is a reason why economy cars are fwd and more expensive cars are rwd. Like this isn’t even arguable. It’s like car building 101. So what about a Cayenne it doesn’t change a thing regarding rwd vs fwd car development. A Porsche is an exception not the norm and that architecture is not the same as building fwd economy car. You know this so why the ridiculous argument?
M
"I don't have numbers" is written shorter)))
The only reason, why economy cars are FWD is a layout. More space in the cabin with the same car length. No transmission tunnel in some cases is another benefit. The 70s Cadillac Eldorado, the most expensive car in their line up then, was FWD not because of the cheap platform)
Cayenne is built on the same MLB EVO platform as A4, A5, A6, A7, A8, Q5, Q7, Bentayga, Urus. That's an FWD platform!)))
Don't be a victim of ignorance and marketing BS.
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- Martin
Dear readers, your task, should you accept...
Come to a dead stop, put on 90 degrees of steering lock, floor the throttle (like you're pulling away from a stop sign in a hurry)...
Do this in any A4. Then do this in any 3 Series or C-Class. If you don't feel the difference then maybe you're not as much of a car fan as you thought you were.
Come to a dead stop, put on 90 degrees of steering lock, floor the throttle (like you're pulling away from a stop sign in a hurry)...
Do this in any A4. Then do this in any 3 Series or C-Class. If you don't feel the difference then maybe you're not as much of a car fan as you thought you were.
Gor134
AMG Aficionado
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- Gor
MLB is developed as an AWD-first platform for Audi/Porsche's unique generally rear-biased AWD. It is FWD in it's basic form, but of course the FWD/AWD won't behave like a RWD car taking off a turn. It is quite a different platform than your typical FWD economy car platform (complex multi-link front suspension, longitudinally mounted engine, center and rear diffs, etc)
You can definitely still get the rear to kick out though and Audis have quite stiff chassis in general. You do feel the rear-bias especially on spirited drives... I went from a RWD E90 to a AWD B8.5 A4 so yeah I know what I'm talking about. OBVIOUSLY it won't kick out/drift like a RWD but you can get it a little lose with late trail-braking and weight transfer techniques.
You can definitely still get the rear to kick out though and Audis have quite stiff chassis in general. You do feel the rear-bias especially on spirited drives... I went from a RWD E90 to a AWD B8.5 A4 so yeah I know what I'm talking about. OBVIOUSLY it won't kick out/drift like a RWD but you can get it a little lose with late trail-braking and weight transfer techniques.
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- Marcus
So wait a min, I'm a victim of ignorance, but you're pointing to a POS GM car that was FWD as evidence of FWD being as expensive to build as RWD just because they priced it at certain level? That is sheer ignorance. You also left out the fact that GM later on switched the entire Cadillac lineup BACK to RWD because their cars were utter shit and being killed by all the RWD based competition. There goes that.
You keep trying to conflate two issues. I said that RWD is more expensive to build and you keep pointing to how the MLB EVO platform is used in a Porsche as to imply there is no difference between a RWD and FWD architecture when it comes to driving. I'll say it for you again, PORSCHE IS AN EXCEPTION. Not sure what you aren't getting. This is not the first time they're taken pedestrian underpinnings and made something better. That is an OUTLIER, not the norm. That they chose to build all those vehicles on that platform only proves my point that it was a cost decision.
If there was no difference between FWD and RWD, why wouldn't all the high end luxury car makers used FWD to free up more space in their cabins?
The only one that is ignorant is you if you think their is no difference between FWD and RWD other than some space in the cabin.
M
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- Rolf
If we are talking about a common exit from the yard to the main road at 90 degrees - I'd rather do it in an A4)
For understanding - I made more than 200K km on my RWD E90 335i. And I drove it HARD. At least two rear tires changes each summer season with no power sliding or burnouts. But nowadays when 80-90% of all german cars are AWD, in my country at least, and speed cameras are everywhere I don't see much difference.
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