DTM DTM and Touring Racing Discussion Thread

[Matski]

Spoiler

Ha ha ha.... Welp, just goes to show how good my predictions are!

Race 1 in the bag, still 4 drivers in contention, and it looks like it's probably going to be wet all day!

Spoiler

edit:

Well, without going into it all now, Sutton might be a dick sometimes but he's driven a great season, and given where the Infiniti has been in the past, it's fair to say that the team has done a great job too, so congrats to them all. Moffatt clearly a weak link since they were quite a way off in the Teams standings, and it's not like Oliphant is top line driver.

As for Turk, just had an off weekend in the wet, when he really needed an outstanding one. Can't even blame RWD disadvantage in the wet since Sutton is in similar equipment. Race 2 penalty was probably also justified... yes, he was taking avoiding action to miss Rivett's car, but I can't believe there weren't yellows out at the top of Paddock - he might not have seen them, or Rivetts car, but passing/not slowing under yellows is a big no, no. Fair result for Turkington all things considered.

Glad BMW can claim another couple of titles (teams/manufacturers), but I was really hoping Turk would set the record for drivers with another one.

 

[M.N.D]

I'm still waiting for ITV to upload the round, so I don't dare to press the spoilers button above I'm also trying to avoid any kind of feed so I won't ruin yhe results for myself!!

 

[M.N.D]

It's been over a day, and ITV didn't upload the replays of the final round yet. I'm still waiting, so once the replays are uploaded, I'll be back once I'm done watching them.

I'm still trying ti avoid all sorts of feedback from websites and social media...

 

[M.N.D]

I've just watched the whole final event of the 2020 BTCC season.

Again and again, BTCC never fails to offer some of the best racing action in motorsports. Not as dramatic and over the top as last year's finale, but I still put this series among my most favourite in all of motorsport, and regardless of the result, which wasn't what I was hoping for, the competition was strong and it was lots of fun to watch from the beginning.

The first race had an amazing battle between Cammish and Ingram, while the second race got me on the edge of my seat due to Turkington's incident with one of the Honda's. As for the last race, Ingram was doing a very good job, and aside from Colin, he's the most driver that I consider myself a fan of among the competition. Good luck to him next year. As for Cammish, he also did a very good job, but he wasn't at his best at the beginning of the season, and also good luck to him next year.

Without a doubt, Sutton deserved to be the champion. From the start, his daring driving, pace and late braking were among the best on the grid. I didn't watch the 2017 championship so I can't comment on how or why he didn't have sportsmanship qualities, but he's done an excellent job in 2020. Congratulations to him for his second championship and to Laser Tools for preparing the fastest car

As for our man, Colin Turkington...

I have to say Hard luck, mate. We know you've done all you can, but the car wasn't in its finest form despite being a proven and a winning platform. From the start, the car wasn't comfortable in wet conditions and was lacking pace, and Colin mentioned that in his post race 1 interview. I would reckon that he had a chance to win race 2 if it wasn't for that incident. Then comes race 3, and he was an excellent defender against Sutton, but the overtaking was inevitable. I though that Croft was the point when Sutton would become the champion, but actually it was today. Maybe if Colin didn't have those accidents, he would've enjoyed a healthy points lead, but the same assumptions can be applied for any title contender.

I sometimes get to chat with Colin very briefly on Instagram, but because I didn't watch the races until today, I haven't chatted with him yet, as I was avoiding everything so not to spoil the results.

Congratulations to team BMW and to BMW itself for winning the teams and manufacturer titles, which is excellent, especially against Honda, who has the most cars. Oliphant improved this year, but I guess he needs to do even more next year.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

A little off topic: Christian Menzel tested in Fast lap the BMW M6 GT3 and the Porsche 911 GT3 R. Should be entertaining.

 

[Matski]

Without a doubt, Sutton deserved to be the champion. From the start, his daring driving, pace and late braking were among the best on the grid. I didn't watch the 2017 championship so I can't comment on how or why he didn't have sportsmanship qualities, but he's done an excellent job in 2020. Congratulations to him for his second championship and to Laser Tools for preparing the fastest car

Agreed, I've been very impressed with not only his pace, but how clean he's been. I can certainly respect that and it's nice to have to two guys in contention at the end of the season that do race like that.

Maybe if Colin didn't have those accidents, he would've enjoyed a healthy points lead, but the same assumptions can be applied for any title contender.

Every position in every race counts, it's a cliche, but it's so true in the BTCC!

Christian Menzel tested in Fast lap the BMW M6 GT3 and the Porsche 911 GT3 R. Should be entertaining.

I assume un-bop'd and un-ballasted? That would be interesting...

 

[M.N.D]

Agreed, I've been very impressed with not only his pace, but how clean he's been. I can certainly respect that and it's nice to have to two guys in contention at the end of the season that do race like that.

Colin is a master of clean driving, but just like you said previously, a bit "too clean", and although I prefer this type to an offensive driving style, some situations need a bit more elbows-out attitude. Let's hope for another amazing and competitive season next year! hopefully, there'll be spectators around. I hate the sight of empty seats.

Every position in every race counts, it's a cliche, but it's so true in the BTCC!

True. No other series that I've followed and watched has this level of unpredictability.

A little off topic: Christian Menzel tested in Fast lap the BMW M6 GT3 and the Porsche 911 GT3 R. Should be entertaining.

Interesting. A bit more details about the nature of this test? I'm not that familiar with Menzel, so I don't know if he's test driver or a freelance journalist at the moment.

I assume un-bop'd and un-ballasted? That would be interesting...

It's not easy to find such detailed data on race cars due to the different regulations of each series that utilize GT3, so that would be interesting to know if this test is BoP and ballast free.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Colin is a master of clean driving, but just like you said previously, a bit "too clean", and although I prefer this type to an offensive driving style, some situations need a bit more elbows-out attitude. Let's hope for another amazing and competitive season next year! hopefully, there'll be spectators around. I hate the sight of empty seats.


True. No other series that I've followed and watched has this level of unpredictability.


Interesting. A bit more details about the nature of this test? I'm not that familiar with Menzel, so I don't know if he's test driver or a freelance journalist at the moment.


It's not easy to find such detailed data on race cars due to the different regulations of each series that utilize GT3, so that would be interesting to know if this test is BoP and ballast free.

Mendel is still a race driver (23 wins in Carrera cup with 3 champion titles, wins of 24h of Nürburgring and Sebring, champion of Formel 3 and many others). He raced for BMW with which he won the 24h of Nr, for Opel in DTM, Porsche 15 years with 3 champion titles, Mercedes and 2 place in 2014 with SLR in 24 Nr, Ferrari, Nissan, he raced also for Scuderia Glickenhause. He is also a trainer and together with Timo Glok trains pilots in Deutsche Post academy, he also develops race cars and makes evaluations of preproduction cars on Nürburgring, because he is also a car engineer. He is so multitalented, that I believe he is the best car presenter in the world. His TV show Fast lap is already 8 years on the screens and he has tested more than 250 cars there.

 

[M.N.D]

Mendel is still a race driver (23 wins in Carrera cup with 3 champion titles, wins of 24h of Nürburgring and Sebring, champion of Formel 3 and many others). He raced for BMW with which he won the 24h of Nr, for Opel in DTM, Porsche 15 years with 3 champion titles, Mercedes and 2 place in 2014 with SLR in 24 Nr, Ferrari, Nissan, he raced also for Scuderia Glickenhause. He is also a trainer and together with Timo Glok trains pilots in Deutsche Post academy, he also develops race cars and makes evaluations of preproduction cars on Nürburgring, because he is also a car engineer. He is so multitalented, that I believe he is the best car presenter in the world. His TV show Fast lap is already 8 years on the screens and he has tested more than 250 cars there.

That's informative, and I've taken a look at his Wiki page. He's indeed a talented driver and champion, but since I don't follow Carrera Cup, and the fact that his Wiki page is incomplete, I assumed that he's not active, at least in the series that I follow. I don't understand German (I'd love to, but I can't invest in it right now) so I don't pay much attention to German language car shows.

So, do you have a link or more details about the GT3 cars test you've mentioned?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

That's informative, and I've taken a look at his Wiki page. He's indeed a talented driver and champion, but since I don't follow Carrera Cup, and the fact that his Wiki page is incomplete, I assumed that he's not active, at least in the series that I follow. I don't understand German (I'd love to, but I can't invest in it right now) so I don't pay much attention to German language car shows.

So, do you have a link or more details about the GT3 cars test you've mentioned?

They are not broadcasted yet, otherwise the full version of Fast Lap is available only on subscription, so no links. There are short versions on Youtube of older test but they are only 5 min long, instead of the full 25 min.

 

[TopspeedPT]

Albon ‘bags Ferrari drive’ for 2021 DTM switch

Motorsport.com report that although it is so far unofficial which car Albon, along with Red Bull junior driver Liam Lawson, will drive in DTM, their understanding is that it will be the Ferrari 488 GT3.

“The DTM, with a high-class field and GT3 sportscars, is an interesting platform and a real challenge, both for successful race drivers like Alex Albon and for our Red Bull junior driver Liam Lawson,” said Marko.

More manufactorers to DTM would be awesome. I remember watching DTM races a very long time ago and it was cool.

 

[M.N.D]

Albon ‘bags Ferrari drive’ for 2021 DTM switch

More manufactorers to DTM would be awesome. I remember watching DTM races a very long time ago and it was cool.

While I'm happy to see things looking good for DTM, I'm still skeptical on how things will play out for them. I'm not going to judge from a single season, but I don't know how they will distinguish their product on the long run, given that GT3 based series are aplenty already, with GT Masters existing for 14 years and the series is well supported. DTM is the stroger brand, but without a unique racing platform, I'm not sure if having an all pro grid with no driver change will be enough, as I was kinda excited for the GT Plus concept that didn't make it.

As for Albon, it's good to see him having a racing seat instead of being reduced to a test or reserve driver, but in the motorsport community, such a transition is considered a downgrade for a young driver, no matter how I love and support sportscar racing, or how little I care about Formula 1. Such a move reminds me of Pascal Wehrlein who graduated from DTM as a champion, went to F1, then back to DTM without much success, then to Formula E, then I lost his track record.

 

[Matski]

Two pieces of good news;

WSR to run third BMW 330i in the BTCC, driven by Stephen Jelley, who's drivern for WSR before and has recently campaigned the ex-WSR 125i. Also, a jolly nice bloke.

Walkenhorst looking to compete in new DTM with the M6.

 

[M.N.D]

WSR to run third BMW 330i in the BTCC, driven by Stephen Jelley, who's drivern for WSR before and has recently campaigned the ex-WSR 125i. Also, a jolly nice bloke.

That's good! Jelley will be an excellent aid for WSR to compete for the team's title, as well as it may help Jelley himself to score more points with a better prepped car.

While I don't think that either Jelley or Oliphant will challenge Turkington for the top spot, who do you think will occupy the 2nd position within the team? I see Jelley as a bit more daring, but his results weren't that consistent, possibly due to his grid position and to the car not being well prepared, while Oliphant wasn't a good position defender, although he had a win or 2 last season.

Walkenhorst looking to compete in new DTM with the M6.

That's interesting. BMW said they'll skip DTM this year on the basis that the M6 is old, but since manufacturers are not directly involved anymore, entering DTM is up to the teams.

What's more, Rowe racing is considering entering DTM as well, according to Sportscar365, and that sounded more like moving to DTM and at least leaving the GTWC sprint series. This got me thinking that DTM may really become a threat to other GT3 series, such as GTWC Europe and GT Masters. Yes, these series utilize the Pro-Am and Am classes, but the Pro class is where the main focus is at, so if DTM does well, and the major Pro teams start migrating there, will other series survive on the long run?

 

[Matski]

While I don't think that either Jelley or Oliphant will challenge Turkington for the top spot, who do you think will occupy the 2nd position within the team? I see Jelley as a bit more daring, but his results weren't that consistent, possibly due to his grid position and to the car not being well prepared, while Oliphant wasn't a good position defender, although he had a win or 2 last season.

As I've said before, I think Oliphant has been a bit of a waste of a seat, but he did pick up towards the end of last season. I don't think the team will favour either him or Jelley, but my gut feeling at the moment is that where Oliphant may fall short in speed, as you have suggested, Jelley may be less reliable in his performances - he made a couple of obvious errors in the 125i, and threw away plenty of positions because of it. My fear is he'll push too hard and mess up because of it. If Oliphant continues to improve, he may end up being the more dependable point scorer. I agree neither will challenge Turk... it is a team with a number 1 driver, and two number 2's.

We also probably shouldn't forget there's another 330i on the grid being driven by Adam Morgan, he's a fairly adept racer himself, and it wouldn't surprise me too much if he was out performing Oliphant or Jelley.

... the real question, will be 'Will Ash Sutton carry over last years blistering pace?'

You can't take much for granted in the BTCC, but the title for BMW in the manufacturers standings is their's to lose, the race for Turk's 5th, record breaking title, is going to be a tough one... I'm already nervous!

This got me thinking that DTM may really become a threat to other GT3 series, such as GTWC Europe and GT Masters. Yes, these series utilize the Pro-Am and Am classes, but the Pro class is where the main focus is at, so if DTM does well, and the major Pro teams start migrating there, will other series survive on the long run?

Definite possibility. DTM's popularity might have been on the decline, but I'd imagine - certainly in the domestic German market - it's still got an attraction the less well know GT series perhaps don't. I said from the start having multiple series' running the same regs (be it TCR or GT3/4) is a risk - I hope I'm proven wrong on that.

 

[Matski]

That's interesting. BMW said they'll skip DTM this year on the basis that the M6 is old, but since manufacturers are not directly involved anymore, entering DTM is up to the teams.

What's more, Rowe racing is considering entering DTM as well, according to Sportscar365, and that sounded more like moving to DTM and at least leaving the GTWC sprint series. This got me thinking that DTM may really become a threat to other GT3 series, such as GTWC Europe and GT Masters. Yes, these series utilize the Pro-Am and Am classes, but the Pro class is where the main focus is at, so if DTM does well, and the major Pro teams start migrating there, will other series survive on the long run?

Rowe confirmed for DTM with the M6. I'd imagine they'll keep the 911 in the endurance events.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Rowe confirmed for DTM with the M6. I'd imagine they'll keep the 911 in the endurance events.

Why a model, that is not in production. This brings no benefit for BMW. It's most useful when people can buy the road version of the car that is participating in the races. Will they change to the M4 GT3 from next year?

 

[Matski]

This brings no benefit for BMW. It's most useful when people can buy the road version of the car that is participating in the races. Will they change to the M4 GT3 from next year?

Since it's not manufacturer backed in 2021, it's down to the teams to decide what cars they want to run. M4 GT3 isn't ready yet, so the teams are just going with what they've got for now - so It'll be a year of M6, then switching to the M4 the following year - with Schnitzer and RBM off the books, I'm not sure what BMW's works effort will look like in 2022.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Since it's not manufacturer backed in 2021, it's down to the teams to decide what cars they want to run. M4 GT3 isn't ready yet, so the teams are just going with what they've got for now - so It'll be a year of M6, then switching to the M4 the following year - with Schnitzer and RBM off the books, I'm not sure what BMW's works effort will look like in 2022.

I know that it's a private team effort but still it's pathetic that the best that BMW can offer is based on a car, that is out of production for more than 3 years.

 

[Matski]

I know that it's a private team effort but still it's pathetic that the best that BMW can offer is based on a car, that is out of production for more than 3 years.

The M6 GT3 homologation hasn't expired yet, it's still allowed to race - so why would the teams that already own them not race them? BMW decided years ago the 8-er would not be a GT3 car, in favour of the next logical choice - the M4, which has just arrived. 2021 is a competitive development season for the M4 GT3 (I'm guessing it'll be run in SPX at the 'ring 24) and will receive FIA homologation by the end of the year. 2022 will then see it available as a customer car.

BMW were fully expecting to be running a Class One M4 Turbo DTM car this year and therefore entirely reasonably hadn't planned for homologating the M4 GT3, untested, prior to the cars market launch last year, to run a full DTM season this year. No other scenario makes any better sense, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation had Audi not pooed their pants at the start of the pandemic. What would you rather they'd have done?