DTM DTM and Touring Racing Discussion Thread


Dan Cammish out at Honda!

Honda British Touring Car Championship star Dan Cammish will no longer be a part of the Team Dynamics line-up in 2021.

The team released a statement on Tuesday confirming the departure of the 31-year-old Yorkshireman, who was always set to continue with the squad for a fourth season in the BTCC.

Cammish has spent three seasons with the team since joining the BTCC from the Porsche Supercup and Carrera Cup GB.

After his rookie campaign in 2018, he came within a lap and a half of claiming the 2019 title, only for brake failure in the final race at Brands Hatch to derail his bid. As he had in 2019, Cammish finished third in the standings in 2020, when he again was in title contention going into the final race.

Across his three seasons in the BTCC, Cammish has won eight races.

The news comes amid rumours that Honda will no longer officially back the Dynamics Civic Type R squad.

But Dynamics has always fully intended to press ahead with a two-car team for 2021, and states that a first driver will be announced on Friday, with the second 'confirmed over the coming weeks'.

Dynamics linchpin Matt Neal, whose father Steve founded the team, has confirmed to Autosport over recent months that he was weighing up a retirement from the BTCC after the 2020 season.

I'm really curious to see how this pans out, of all the drivers Honda could be choosing Cammish would be the best one to keep! I can only imagine it's sponsor or funding related, but I was Dick Bennetts I'd be telling Oliphant he was on the bench and giving Dan a call.
 
Unfortunately I'm a bit unable to join the conversation right now, but I'll try to be around to contribute properly in the next few days...

It seems that the GT3 switch in DTM is somehow taking off, and I think that GT Masters will be affected on the long run. 15 cars right now is not bad, and there's a potential for more. No Porsche or Lamborghini entries so far, but I won't be surprised if we'll see an entry from Grasser or Manthey before the start of the season.

@Matski I'm also surprised to see Cammish leaving Honda. As you mentioned, he's the top driver in Honda's squad. There's some shuffling within BTCC. First with Ingram leaving Toyota, and now Cammish leaving Honda. I believe that Neal is leaving BTCC altogether, which, in my opinion, is a big blow to Halfords Yausa who will need new drivers to fill their seats.
 
I believe that Neal is leaving BTCC altogether, which, in my opinion, is a big blow to Halfords Yausa who will need new drivers to fill their seats.

Neal will be involved in some way since it's his family team, his pace was well off the boil last season so its probably not a bad time to stand down... it's just been announced though that Gordon 'Flash' Sheddon will be back to drive for the team.
 
It's been a couple of months since we talked on this thread, so before I go on the main topic that I want to talk about, I'd like to see whether if we keep talking about DTM here, now that it is basically a GT3 championship...

Anyway, on to the main topic...

BTCC is BACK :yay:

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We're few days from the start of the 2021 season at Thruxton...

I'm still trying to balance out the things that I have right now, which is why I'm unable to follow the races at SRO right now, but since it's BTCC, it has my top priority when it comes to what to follow.

Also, it's good to see that Dan Cammish is back at the series with BTC racing. Jason Plato is also back which is good (not that I'm a fan of him a racer, but more of a familiar face from the old days of 5th Gear with Tiff Needell).
 
I'd like to see whether if we keep talking about DTM here, now that it is basically a GT3 championship...

I reckon the GT thread.

Also, it's good to see that Dan Cammish is back at the series with BTC racing

I gather this is temporary though, since he's doing the Porsche Cup season.

Jason Plato is also back which is good

Sadly PMR are being sponsored by Rich Energy drink. I don't want to turn this thread into something else, but I have strong views about Rich Energy, and they ain't favourable! Should I get the opportunity to voice my opinions at any of the company representatives at a race meeting, I will do so.

Thruxton isn't a great circuit for the BMW's, it will be interesting to see which of the FWD cars demonstrates early strength there.

I'm very excited for the season start :D

Random shot from my Archives...

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A BMW 320Si, third race of the day from Thruxton back in 2011. :D Quite a handsome car :D
 
That is AWESOME mate!!!

I think I'll skip the opener at Thruxton and will only watch the highlights, as I don't have enough time to watch both events... booo ?

I'm looking forward to a report on your live experience @Matski with some amazing shots!

Hopefully our boyz will get the podium tomorrow ?
 
@M.N.D Well I'm mostly recovered from the weekend now, so, some thoughts...

Firstly, Snetterton has never been my favourite circuit. Compared to the undulating greenery of Oulton Park or Brands Hatch, it is flat, slightly characterless and has little to differentiate it from a national level karting circuit, it's an airfield circuit like Silverstone, Thruxton and Croft - and to a certain degree they all suffer the same problem. Covid restrictions in place at the moment meant that a fair portion of the circuit (including the pits and paddock area) was closed off to the circuit, and one of the more popular spectating areas was administered as a 'one in one out' area, which meant queuing to get access to it. The upshot of this is a lot of the character of the event is also lost. I've never been one to set up a chair at one corner and sit their all weekend, I like to pound all the track side routes, explore the pits, and see as much of the venue as possible, so - given much of this wasn't possible, and it's not my favourite circuit anyway, my expectations were already tempered. Whilst I have to say my concerns turned out to be true, and the event felt frustratingly small (and with pretty much intolerable weather conditions), I was so happy to be back trackside that as the grid came roaring past on lap one of race one, I had a lump in my throat and could easily have cried tears of joy... I ****ing love it. Being honest, I actually bailed before race 3 on Sunday though - the heat had taken its toll and I felt dog rough from Saturday lunchtime onwards, with a 120 mile drive home I elected to hit the road sooner rather than later as my headache was only getting worse and worse.

From a photography point of view Snetterton isn't bad, but there's not much variety... around 8-10 spots to get shots from around the circuit, little variety in the attitude of the car other than Brundle/Nelson, and little variety in the foreground, or the background. With only 4000 spectators allowed, it was possible to stand in most spots and get some shots though, and the lack of catch fencing is an absolute relief. I took over 1700 photos, many of which were just experimenting with the stabilisation modes on the 'new' lens. I forgot all my polarizing filters though, which is a serious rookie error for a circuit like this on cloudless day with blistering sunshine. They help prevent some colours from washing out, and it allows for larger aperture (i.e. taking the background out of focus), and a relatively long exposure time (1/250-320), without generally overexposing the photos... sadly without the filters, and the camera already at it lowest ISO setting, it meant that the aperture was often up around f8 to f10... this isn't enough to soften the background as much as I'd like in many cases.

As far as the racing goes... no clue :LOL: :oops: :ROFLMAO: It seemed fairly processional, with little overtaking, and this seemed true for many of the support races also... but... that's one of the drawbacks of being at one corner at a time, you don't always get to see much of what's going on. Looks like Sutton put in another fantastic drive though, so I look forward to seeing that when I watch the races on catch up. Strong weekend for the Bimmers in general, but with Sutton being on fire more often than not, I think Turk will have his work cut out keeping up with him.

Not gonna lie, the matte black livery on all 5 of the 330i's is not my favourite.

Anyway... some photos... going to be a while before I can sort out the rest.

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Pure ETCR kicks off this weekend.

First round, or heat, or pool, IDK, I don't really get the format yet...

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Gustl pulling no punches :D but thanks to only having three cars on track it went down hill pretty quickly...
 
I'll try to watch the replay of BTCC this weekend.
Actually, I have to, because otherwise I won't be able to do so, as commitments will be more demanding for me later on...

Pure ETCR kicks off this weekend.
I've seen the headlines for the upcoming race, but didn't read through. So what is the difference between a pool and a round? What I see is basically a stint, but the drivers are chosen based on a draw, or am I getting it wrong? I understand organizers try to do something different, but I don't if trying to be different works, but hey, it's a start, so I'm happy with that. More support for touring car racing, YAY!! The lighsaber traffic light gate thingy is so gimmicky, but it's a nice touch.

Hyundai is taking interest in BMW's pro drivers. Gusto is the second driver after Catsburg to drive for Hyundai in TCR... but I guess they know who to hire.
It's kinda funny to see 3 cars only, but the racing is good as the "whole" grid is so close, and it's surprisingly good ? Nice overtake by Gusto, which is a bit aggressive but still clean, and his quote of "A little bit of rubbing" is among the reasons of why I like touring and sports car racing (That's what she said?)

Good to see familiar faces in Hyundai, but why did Chilton seem to be as if he wasn't going 100%? The commentators mentioned he was trying to save the tyres, but for what?
 
Good to see familiar faces in Hyundai, but why did Chilton seem to be as if he wasn't going 100%? The commentators mentioned he was trying to save the tyres, but for what?

16 sets of tyres for the weekend and I'm guessing they're keeping them for the final race(s)?

Hyundai is taking interest in BMW's pro drivers. Gusto is the second driver after Catsburg to drive for Hyundai in TCR... but I guess they know who to hire.

Farfus has been driving for Hyundai for a while, since WTCR I believe. I'm still a big fan, and lets be honest, BMW's factory efforts haven't offered him that many regular seats.

I've got a lot of respect for what Hyundai have been doing in Touring cars. The level of commitment has been high, with multiple TCR cars being developed, and they've been a welcome addition to BTCC too. Signing up for ETCR is an impressive move for them also, they committed fairly early IIRC. I openly admit I wish BMW would show that level of commitment to touring cars again.

As for ETCR itself. I like what I've seen of the cars so far... but the format's a gimmick to try and patch over the short race format. The fact the start gate caused a Red Flag only adds insult to injury!


___


DTM from Monza also this weekend. Not following it so far but hope to catch up. Low-key cheering for Sophia Floersch as well as the Bimmers.
 
Farfus has been driving for Hyundai for a while, since WTCR I believe. I'm still a big fan, and lets be honest, BMW's factory efforts haven't offered him that many regular seats.
Same here... maybe if DTM's new GT3 formula proved to be good, then Farfus will be a better option than many other drivers, given how good he is with a GT car.

I've got a lot of respect for what Hyundai have been doing in Touring cars. The level of commitment has been high, with multiple TCR cars being developed, and they've been a welcome addition to BTCC too. Signing up for ETCR is an impressive move for them also, they committed fairly early IIRC. I openly admit I wish BMW would show that level of commitment to touring cars again.
Also same here. Among mainstream brands, Hyundai is one of my favorite brands since I recognized the brand when I was young back in the mid 90's, even though they were sub-par back then, and my family owned a Hyundai.

Hyundai releasing 3 different platforms for TCR, their presence in BTCC, this new ETCR and in rallying shows that they are seriously committed to motorsports. I also wish to see BMW being more committed to touring car again, even though the only major form of touring racing these days is TCR, as NGTC is exclusive to BTCC and STCC, which BMW is there, thankfully. I'd like to see a RWD based TCR, but that likely won't happen

So, BMW, I know you've just announced your commitment to LMDh, and this is very exciting (providing that you'll be able to deliver), but, if you could go and just at least introduces a 1 series based platform for TCR...

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As for ETCR itself. I like what I've seen of the cars so far... but the format's a gimmick to try and patch over the short race format. The fact the start gate caused a Red Flag only adds insult to injury!
Stupid and embarrassing, but makes you laugh ?

DTM from Monza also this weekend. Not following it so far but hope to catch up. Low-key cheering for Sophia Floersch as well as the Bimmers.
I'll try to watch the race and see how it goes... I'll try to share some impressions on the sportscar thread if I get to watch the race...
 
So good to be back at a full scale Touring car event again this weekend. Oulton Park doesn't fail to deliver as a venue, immeasurably better than Silverstone.

Not the best weekend for racing though. Several Red Flags throughout the weekend, more than one per race in some cases!

On the plus side.. remembered my 77mm polarising filter, so the matte black cars look less sh!t.

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That looks very intersting @Matski (y) looking forward to read your thoughts and impressions on Oulton Park round. I'll try to catch up with the races during next week.

Must feel refreshing to be back at the track side... how did the 330i look in NGTC form in real life?
 
how did the 330i look in NGTC form in real life?

As a proper saloon car it stands head and shoulders above the typically hatch-back based grid.
looking forward to read your thoughts and impressions on Oulton Park round. I'll try to catch up with the races during next week.

I'll need to watch it on catch-up to see how the races were, to be honest. The conditions did not suit the RWD cars at all, although, with a 'moist' track, the RWD cars look so much cooler sliding through the bends than the FWD cars... it's just not a quick way of getting around the track.
 
@M.N.D

As part of my ongoing research, I spent a bit of time on DTM today, specifically the Class One era between 2012 and 2020... thought you might be interested in a basic BMW driver ranking...

Marco Wittmann - 15 wins / 130 races (11.5%)
Bruno Spengler - 7 wins / 122 races (5.7%)
Maxime Martin - 3 wins / 64 races (4.7%)
Timo Glock - 5 wins / 130 races (3.8%)
Augusto Farfus - 4 wins / 104 races (3.8%)
Sheldon van der Linde - 1 wins / 36 races (2.8%)
Joel Eriksson - 1 wins / 38 races (2.6%)
Antonio Felix da Costa - 1 wins / 46 races (2.2%)
Tom Blomqvist - 1 wins / 54 races (1.9%)
Phillip Eng - 1 wins / 56 races (1.8%)
Alessandro Zanardi - 0 wins / 2 races (0%)
Robert Kubica - 0 wins / 18 races (0%)
Jonathan Aberdein - 0 wins / 18 races (0%)
Andy Priaulx - 0 wins / 20 races (0%)
Dirk Werner - 0 wins / 20 races (0%)
Joey Hand - 0 wins / 30 races (0%)
Martin Tomczyk - 0 wins / 66 races (0%)

I know from prior conversations we both rate some of the same drivers, and deride others, but this really puts Tomczyk into perspective for me... he's a DTM Champion! Meanwhile, the likes of Priaulx, Hand and Eng (all excellent drivers), lag behind newcomers like SVDL and Joel Eriksson. Wittmann doesn't get enough recognition IMHO, I've never been a fan, based on his fan interaction at the first DTM race I went to, but his name should be up there with BMW's greats.

Thought it might be interesting. Soon I hope to catch up with some of the GT3 era races...
 
@Matski

Can you tell me anything about where the engine of an M4 GT3 sits in comparison to a normal M4? Wondering about the difference because this YTer (TJ Hunt) has started converting his M4 to a OEM M4 GT3 exterior (125k of CF) and I am wondering if he'll be actually be able to do it when you see how the front of a GT3 car looks like with these gigantic holes in the hood. The man himself doesn't know either. He has the back fenders on but that's the easy part LOL
 
@Matski

Can you tell me anything about where the engine of an M4 GT3 sits in comparison to a normal M4? Wondering about the difference because this YTer (TJ Hunt) has started converting his M4 to a OEM M4 GT3 exterior (125k of CF) and I am wondering if he'll be actually be able to do it when you see how the front of a GT3 car looks like with these gigantic holes in the hood. The man himself doesn't know either. He has the back fenders on but that's the easy part LOL

My gut feeling is that the engine mounting position itself will be largely the same. It's always possible that something else occurs and gets homologated via technical waiver, but...

... this is the GT3 without it's nose...

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I dare say the position of the engine is not the biggest headache... pretty much everything else at the front is unique to the race car, I can't imagine the bodywork for the race car would simply bolt on to the road car in any way, shape or form.
 

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