Poll BMW F90 M5 vs. Mercedes-Benz W213 E63s

[LaArtist]

I always come to this conclusion when I read sensible arguments for bmw ( like @martinbo) :
Bmw is ass

Don’t know why this happens.

And I also
Belive this to be the truth

Ps
It’s like I read the stuff and go :
Mhm yes makes sense, very true ..
Ohh I didn’t know this, impressive indeed.
While a voice whispers ass, ass ass, bmw is ass in the back ground.

 

[martinbo]

While a voice whispers ass, ass ass, bmw is a fine piece-a-ass in the back ground.

Deep down, subliminally that's what you really believe.

 

[Zafiro]

E63, the car MB fans don't want to be known....

 

[Matski]

Erm... what's an E63?

UK website lists E53 and E63S, the only place the E63 is mentioned is under 'offers', I wonder if they've discontinued it in the UK. Sales seem to have been fairly even between the S version and the vanilla version.

While a voice whispers ass, ass ass,bmw is ass in the back ground.

Haloperidol, Asenapine or perhaps Electroconvulsive therapy can be used to manage such a condition.

 

[LaArtist]

Deep down, subliminally that's what you really believe.

Lol maybe the damn voice doesn’t get to the point.

 

[Serpens]

I always have to smile quietly to myself because it's always E63S vs M5. Not E63 straight but always the S variant.

My own personal perception is like this...
Mercedes Benz: "Yeah we've got an E63 and it's nice and all, but, actually, don't bother with that, you don't what it. What you really want is an E63S, yes, that's way better - forget abou...

You can't even get a regular E63 in the U.S., so for us there is no discussion to be had.

 

[Tarek]

Typically of BMW, the square, cross-flowed manifold S63B44T4 engine in the M5 revs freer and does its best work at the top of the rpm range over the under-square M177's more muscular delivery lower down in the rev range in spite of both engines being turbocharged.

But how do you know it revs freer? i didn't see or read that in any review of both cars. I think the only way to decide which revs freer is to drive both back to back and feel and watch the RPM. I'm not a technical guy and i don't know much about engines specifics but the in all tests the E63s was faster all the way to 300km/h than both M5 versions doesn't that mean the AMG delivers equally at the top of the RPM range?.. they both rev to 7000 RPM right?

 

[LaArtist]

But how do you know it revs freer? i didn't see or read that in any review of both cars. I think the only way to decide which revs freer is to drive both back to back and feel and watch the RPM. I'm not a technical guy and i don't know much about engines specifics but the in all tests the E63s was faster all the way to 300km/h than both M5 versions doesn'...

No the M5 revs to 7250
Those last 250rpm man, I’m telling you.
Climax

Lool

 

[Robbie]

Typically of BMW, the square, cross-flowed manifold S63B44T4 engine in the M5 revs freer and does its best work at the top of the rpm range over the under-square M177's more muscular delivery lower down in the rev range in spite of both engines being turbocharged.

Martin, that is absolutely not true. I have driven both and NOTHING compares to the M177.

 

[AndreB]

While the E63S has more drama in it (acceleration is brutal) and gets more attention, that drama will beat your ass up fast. The suspension is hard as f**k in the E. Probably it's fun on the track but on bad roads is annoying. I assume that road noise is bad too.

So it's more like a weekend car. I've driven it a bit last week while I was at the dealer with my car.

Visited the BMW dealer same day to test drive the M5 but it was only on display. When price will start dropping I'll probably get one. Looks cool enough and less showoff.

 

[Serpens]

I actually didn't find the road noise to be an issue, but the car was indeed too stiff for my liking. I've been wondering how AMG has been getting away with this since the W204 C63.

 

[manuelf]

I always find it funny that people take these acceleration times and especially lap times serious. It’s great for making fun of the other camp, but that’s really all there is.

So, what are you saying here? One can't deduce anything from those numbers? Sure you can.
It is not the point, whether average John Doe can reproduce the same lap time (which he most likely can't), but it tells you something about the refinement of chassis, suspension, weight distribution/balance, etc. of the car.

The thing that matters is the amount of fun you have on an everyday basis in these cars ...

Exactly. And what car do you think makes more fun? I think the more refined/balanced one, which is therefore also able to achieve better laptimes…
Specifically for the comparison M5 and E63S to me the following is important regarding driving excitement:
- weight: The 130kg the M5 is lighter, you feel instantly! If I do have just a 80 kg person in the passenger seat of my M4 it is very noticeable, when driving my "home course"! So 130kg delta is massive.
- the weight penalty, the E63S has, is imho the root cause of the E63 S overly harsh ride! AMG had to stiffen suspension, swaybars, coilovers to compensate/suppress the rolling of the relatively heavy body to achieve good performance numbers! The M5 doesn't need it and is still more playful! If you make the M5 as harsh/stiff in damping like the E63S … voila, you have a M5 Competition, which will outrun a E63S on any track by an even bigger margin.

 

[GTA45E]

^Sounds like fanboy talk.
There are a number of tuning factors that come into play with suspension dampening, setting, and unsprung weight.
Also, some cars can simply handle weight much better than others, even with passengers onboard.
How can you say the M5 is more playful. Have you driven it back to back against its competitor? or just read reports from journalists. That is a subjective comment because there have been a number of reports saying the steering is accurate but is lacking in feel.
(Speaking of weight, the GT63s is as fat as a sumo wrestler, heavier than the E63s or M5 yet it manages to be the fastest 4-door on the Nurburgring.)

 

[manuelf]

^Sounds like fanboy talk.

Says one of the biggest MB fans in this forum?

How can you say the M5 is more playful. Have you driven it back to back against its competitor? or just read reports from journalists.

There are some very capable journalists out there, which have much more insight and experience than me and whose verdict I much trust in. Because their verdict about cars, which I later drove myself for longer times was often "spot on" (which took me much longer time to discover - as I don't have their professionalism/experience). So reading a report of professionals might not be a disadvantage…

Speaking of weight, the GT63s is as fat as a sumo wrestler, heavier than the E63s orM5 yet it manages to be the fastest 4-door on the Nurburgring.

You are right! Modern technology can compensate for a lot of weight. Still having 130kg (or more) less to manage gives the engineers much more freedom in Tuning... and speaking About the GT63S ring time … at least keep in mind, that we talk about a vendor created fast lap, with semi-slicks and a professional factory race driver, which has 100+ laps with the same car under his belt… so a time by no means comparable with any car magazine number published of an E63S or M5 ...

 

[Tarek]

I actually didn't find the road noise to be an issue, but the car was indeed too stiff for my liking. I've been wondering how AMG has been getting away with this since the W204 C63.

That issue was fixed with the FL C63 so i'm sure the same will happen with the FL E63.

 

[GTA45E]

E63, the car MB fans don't want to be known....

The E63 is a sensible choice for the consumer who doesn`t want all the extra performance options.
That does not mean it still a great performance car. Who here would not give a "left-nut" to own one on site.
This car is a step down from the S model though and should be renamed, (what about E60AMG) The E63s is the standard car that competes with the standard M5, both are about as equally equipped as you can get on paper.

 

[martinbo]

Who here would not give a "left-nut" to own one on site.

I most certainly not give a left nut for a boggo E63. Truth be told that nut is reserved for far more special fare - a 991.2 GT3 Touring.

 

[Frankie G]

Who here would not give a "left-nut" to own one on site.

Uhhhh...that would be me right here. I would beg, borrow or steal the upgrade difference for an S rather than give a nut!

 

[Zafiro]

LOL I'll keep both my nuts, please

 

[GTA45E]

Uhhhh...that would be me right here. I would beg, borrow or steal the upgrade difference for an S rather than give a nut!

Cannot disagree. (left-nut is in quotation for "got to have it")
My point was having one from an entry-level pov. This is what the E63 is.
The M5 would also be just as interesting if it came as an entry level, lower powered model.