Giulia The Giulia QV appreciation thread
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The Alfa Romeo Giulia is a compact executive car produced by Alfa Romeo. Known internally as the Type 952, it was unveiled in June 2015, with market launch scheduled for February 2016, and it is the first saloon offered by Alfa Romeo after the production of the 159 ended in 2011.
I don't know why you insist on this but you probably have your reasons.
I'm sorry but I can't identify any problem with the front end grip. What I see is a driver constantly fighting a loose back end, even letting the car sliding too much at times, both under heavy braking and corner exit, which with a similar rear wing to the GTS, and the increased rear downforce that would result, could then be vastly reduced.
What impresses me the most is the fact of such fast laptime has been achieved with the OEM Pzeros Corsa tyres and not the Trofeo's instead. However, with the increased front end grip from stickier tyres the rear could have become even more loose than what it already was, at least, at corner entrance or under hard braking. Ultimately, it is always a matter of front to rear balance of the car.
But, since you are italian, why don't you ask Fabio Francia himself (through the social networks) how did he feel about the Giulia Q balance in Nurburgring?
savage-It
Meister Mechaniker
you have to ear very well at those tires...They sing better than Pavarotti and tell a lot.You have to see at the "too" big steering angle in many turns too, then you have to add few clips in which you can see how he looses the front...All togheter this means for me that a better planted front would have helped.You mentioned heavy braking and the sliding tendency...This is exactly a situation where a more planted front end could help...During hard braking the front end of the Giulia is sure managing close to 1250 kg (or more).Do you really think that two small 245 Corsa can manage similar efforts without to loose grip? a 997 GT3 with the trail braking tecnique and 245 front tires will have to manage about 975 kg in the same situation with much less pitch moment.Which tires will have less problems?this is what push me to think that a larger size of the front tires, as M4 has (255 while Gts 265) would have helped to reduce the lap time.I am sure that GTA version will have 265 x 295 tires..
I agree with Savage comments, I watched both videos and stopped them at various reference points on the track. The BMW driver in my opinion is driving his car much more smoothly, less aggressive steering movements and the car also seems better planted at the rear. The Alfa had more noticeable steering movements in tight corners and also suspension thumping over bumps which caused the driver some errors in certain corners, where the Alfa would have some bump oversteer or some understeer. In faster corners the Alfa had noticeable tyre squeal and slight understeer. The speed of the Alfa is a match for the BMW, it was faster at the end of the last straight reaching 282km/h compared to 279km/h in the BMW. If the Alfa driver had better control over the bumpy corners he probably would have got very close the GTS time.
Let me give you a clear example of the Giulia Q's lack of rear downforce in Nurburgring then, which is coincidentally the most critical moment for Fabio Francia on the entire lap, where he almost lost it.
Short after the weird tyre low pressure warning light came out at the end of Fuchsröhre - a downhill section done flat out followed by an uphill breaking zone - when F. Francia hits the gas again entering Adenauer Forst, minute 1:49 in both vids (note that the Giulia Q is already two seconds slower than the GTS, 1:40 min vs 1:38 laptimes, respectively), after slowing down from around 255 km/h to around 180 km/h going uphill preparing for the 1st left hand corner, Francia has his BIGGEST moment with the Giulia's back end getting too damn loose under acceleration out of that corner, to the point where he almost looses it completely, minute 1:50!!!
You don't have to wait for a Giulia's GTA version if you feel you need big tires, provided you have the necessary room to accommodated them in the Giulia Quadrifoglio. Of course that if you increase the width of the rear tires or add a rear wing to gain more (mechanical and aerodynamical) rear grip, likely, you will also need to increase the front tires width in order to adjust for the car's balance front/rear.
Just remember that you already have an active aero front splitter that automatically extends (and retracts) to help the car reach the necessary downforce to make the best out of the narrower front tires, added by the two air outlets on the hood that optimizes the airflow and reduces lift at the front axle. Also, the Giulia's double wishbone front suspension arrangement assures the best possible tire contact patch. Smaller, narrower front tires means lighter tires and wheels and therefore less unsprung mass, which in turn means better steering feel and precision.
Short after the weird tyre low pressure warning light came out at the end of Fuchsröhre - a downhill section done flat out followed by an uphill breaking zone - when F. Francia hits the gas again entering Adenauer Forst, minute 1:49 in both vids (note that the Giulia Q is already two seconds slower than the GTS, 1:40 min vs 1:38 laptimes, respectively), after slowing down from around 255 km/h to around 180 km/h going uphill preparing for the 1st left hand corner, Francia has his BIGGEST moment with the Giulia's back end getting too damn loose under acceleration out of that corner, to the point where he almost looses it completely, minute 1:50!!!
You don't have to wait for a Giulia's GTA version if you feel you need big tires, provided you have the necessary room to accommodated them in the Giulia Quadrifoglio. Of course that if you increase the width of the rear tires or add a rear wing to gain more (mechanical and aerodynamical) rear grip, likely, you will also need to increase the front tires width in order to adjust for the car's balance front/rear.
Just remember that you already have an active aero front splitter that automatically extends (and retracts) to help the car reach the necessary downforce to make the best out of the narrower front tires, added by the two air outlets on the hood that optimizes the airflow and reduces lift at the front axle. Also, the Giulia's double wishbone front suspension arrangement assures the best possible tire contact patch. Smaller, narrower front tires means lighter tires and wheels and therefore less unsprung mass, which in turn means better steering feel and precision.
Gianclaudio
Aerodynamic Artisan
Can we for the love of Satan stop this stupid fanboy bullshit for a moment? There's enough crap going all over the BMW and Mercedes forums to see that happening on Alfa too. This is a car forum, not football supporters small dick contest.
Who cares about what BMW or Porsche Panamera did?
Alfa has made a very nice looking, good riding, tidy handler with interior room to match. Let's enjoy it for what it is and hope they up the materials a bit for the facelift and build it soundly to finally blow away the reliability rumours.
Thanks!
Who cares about what BMW or Porsche Panamera did?
Alfa has made a very nice looking, good riding, tidy handler with interior room to match. Let's enjoy it for what it is and hope they up the materials a bit for the facelift and build it soundly to finally blow away the reliability rumours.
Thanks!
savage-It
Meister Mechaniker
Sorry Gianclaudio but I don't feel a fanboy, I have to disagree. For me no problem to stop to tell what I felt looking at the technique behind a race track video . I am used to do this since I am used to race track all my cars and I studied all my videos and mistakes tons of time in the last several years.. When you love race track normally you have that attitude, it is automatic.Sorry for that, it was just a misunderstanding, no intention to win any dick contest by my side..
LaArtist
Wunderkind of Wheels
Facts:
1.That man that drove this car at that time has a serious set of balls.
2. This is very good for the consumers, the germans must up their game.
3. The panamera is 6s of from the alfas time,
510hp/600nm/1524kg 550hp/770nm/1995kg
So thats 40hp and 170nm more but also 471kg more.
conclusion mighty impressive by both brands.
1.That man that drove this car at that time has a serious set of balls.
2. This is very good for the consumers, the germans must up their game.
3. The panamera is 6s of from the alfas time,
510hp/600nm/1524kg 550hp/770nm/1995kg
So thats 40hp and 170nm more but also 471kg more.
conclusion mighty impressive by both brands.
Savage,
There's absolutely nothing for you to be sorry about... I'm glad you've just purchased the Giulia Quadrifoglio and canceled your M2 order, otherwise then you would have been certainly sorry. Two completely different planets and I feel you haven't realize the Giulia Q's full potential just yet.
Looking forward to hear from you when you get the car.
You see, fortunately enough we are in a forum where we have threads entirely dedicated to track laptimes, mainly Nurburgring, through Sport Auto scans and the like which are regularly updated. That's one of the things that makes the forum interesting.
And then we have the auto makers themselves opportunely realeasing the Nurburgring laptimes for their car models in a permanent contest for boosting sales. It is then up to the potential customer to analyze their merits using the available, usually scarce, information as it happens with Porsche's normally absent full lap videos...
There's absolutely nothing for you to be sorry about... I'm glad you've just purchased the Giulia Quadrifoglio and canceled your M2 order, otherwise then you would have been certainly sorry. Two completely different planets and I feel you haven't realize the Giulia Q's full potential just yet.
Looking forward to hear from you when you get the car.
You see, fortunately enough we are in a forum where we have threads entirely dedicated to track laptimes, mainly Nurburgring, through Sport Auto scans and the like which are regularly updated. That's one of the things that makes the forum interesting.
And then we have the auto makers themselves opportunely realeasing the Nurburgring laptimes for their car models in a permanent contest for boosting sales. It is then up to the potential customer to analyze their merits using the available, usually scarce, information as it happens with Porsche's normally absent full lap videos...
savage-It
Meister Mechaniker
Savage,
There's absolutely nothing for you to be sorry about... I'm glad you've just purchased the Giulia Quadrifoglio and canceled your M2 order, otherwise then you would have been certainly sorry. Two completely different planets and I feel you haven't realize the Giulia Q's full potential just yet.
Looking forward to hear from you when you get the car.
You see, fortunately enough we are in a forum where we have threads entirely dedicated to track laptimes, mainly Nurburgring, through Sport Auto scans and the like which are regularly updated. That's one of the things that makes the forum interesting.
And then we have the auto makers themselves opportunely realeasing the Nurburgring laptimes for their car models in a permanent contest for boosting sales. Is then up to the potential customer to analyze their merits using the available, usually scarce, information as it happens with Porsche's normally absent full lap videos...
you know? I made this kind of analysis only one time in my life here (on the basis of 570 post). My posts normally are "just" informative and about Giulia many times I didn't event hide negative aspects...So I have really nothing to apologise with anyone here..be sure
Just a correction, Porsche actually explains that the Panamera is not exactly standard...
Two facts still surprised me though: 1) the PDK was in full automatic mode, no manual shifting for the driver Lars Kern; 2) the 'singing' tires used in the Panamera were not Michelin or Pirelli, they were the Yokohama's Advan Sport V105 N0, which actually makes all the sense since YOKOHAMA has a Test Center in Nurburgring (I don't know if any of the other tire brands has something similar).
ps:The Yokohama's Advan Sport are definitely a very good tire and I can vividly recommend them to anyone searching an alternative to the more usual Michelin PSS and Pirelli PZero's.
Two facts still surprised me though: 1) the PDK was in full automatic mode, no manual shifting for the driver Lars Kern; 2) the 'singing' tires used in the Panamera were not Michelin or Pirelli, they were the Yokohama's Advan Sport V105 N0, which actually makes all the sense since YOKOHAMA has a Test Center in Nurburgring (I don't know if any of the other tire brands has something similar).
ps:The Yokohama's Advan Sport are definitely a very good tire and I can vividly recommend them to anyone searching an alternative to the more usual Michelin PSS and Pirelli PZero's.
Giannis
Staff member
Guys, Gianclaudio is quite right - this thread has long gone off topic.
I'll move most posts of the last pages into a new thread in the Internal Combustion section, where they belong, shortly.
I hope that we won't have to open the Giulia official thread to see Panamera videos.
I'll move most posts of the last pages into a new thread in the Internal Combustion section, where they belong, shortly.
I hope that we won't have to open the Giulia official thread to see Panamera videos.
Giannis,
If you do that I no longer will be posting here, (provided that's not your goal), as it doesn't make any sense to allow selective and constant car comparisions in practically all the other threads outside the Internal Combustion section and then to say this thread has gone off topic because it does the same exact thing. And I'm not even going to comment on some of the users behavior and rudeness, to say the least, that I always choose to ignore.
No, this topic hasn't gone off topic and as a reminder even Lars Kern, Porsche's very own test driver, mentions the Giulia Quadrifoglio in his interview about the Panamera's lap record in the Nurburgring, thus legitimating the Giulia Q as direct competition:
“We’ve seen the Alfa Giulia there testing with Pirelli Trofeo R tyres. This is something we don’t want to do as it’s not relevant for a client. We’re doing it for marketing too, but really it’s to prove how sporty the car is, not to cheat on our clients."
This topic is about the Alfa Romeo Giulia and how it differs from the competition because, ultimately, every car comes down to 4 wheels, an engine, a steering wheel and cost. So, what is left?!
If you do that I no longer will be posting here, (provided that's not your goal), as it doesn't make any sense to allow selective and constant car comparisions in practically all the other threads outside the Internal Combustion section and then to say this thread has gone off topic because it does the same exact thing. And I'm not even going to comment on some of the users behavior and rudeness, to say the least, that I always choose to ignore.
No, this topic hasn't gone off topic and as a reminder even Lars Kern, Porsche's very own test driver, mentions the Giulia Quadrifoglio in his interview about the Panamera's lap record in the Nurburgring, thus legitimating the Giulia Q as direct competition:
“We’ve seen the Alfa Giulia there testing with Pirelli Trofeo R tyres. This is something we don’t want to do as it’s not relevant for a client. We’re doing it for marketing too, but really it’s to prove how sporty the car is, not to cheat on our clients."
This topic is about the Alfa Romeo Giulia and how it differs from the competition because, ultimately, every car comes down to 4 wheels, an engine, a steering wheel and cost. So, what is left?!
Giannis
Staff member
I don't like being extorted. If you do want to take that road, I suggest you do so without dressing it in nice words.
Most other threads are ruined as well.
Why not post it in the Porsche thread, then?
This attitude "it should be allowed because others do it" belongs to kindergarten, not here. Let's not model the Giulia after a klier and Artist date.
***
Now seriously, this is not an action against any of you. This is for the sake of the forum. Giulia vs Porsche and all their other competitors belongs to a different thread, be that in the Internal Combustion or the same sub-forum. This thread should remain for the Giulia and Giulia only.
If we were to be more nitpicking, there should be a different thread for the Giulia QV, which indeed must be compared to certain German offerings and one for the regular Giulia models. I, for example, who am interested in a regular Giulia 2.0T, don't want to read pages and pages of Porsche stuff in the official Giulia thread, and I believe this is justified.
So, the question is, do you prefer all this Giulia vs AMG/ RS/ M and Porsche stuff to be moved to the IC, or a new, Giulia QV official thread within the Giulia forums?
Extorted?! Are you kidding me?! You can ban me whenever you feel like without any real reason. Been there, seen that.
I could also say that I don't like to be patronized. Because, what is in sake here is only a matter of choerence.
The thread has 52 pages and probably one hand is too much to count the number of posts which contain a Porsche reference.
So, the other threads are ruined and only here and now you've decided to take some action. Where's the choerence then?!
As for posting also in the Porsche thread I do not see any advantage in duplicating posts which I always try to avoid, it's as simple as that.
This is an entirely different proposition and the only logic thing to do is a Giulia QV official thread within the Giulia forums as what it is already done with the BMW M models and the like.
Again, it's just a question of coherence!
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
My opinion. What a factory driver did doesn't mean much to me. A video and the words from the carmakers doesn't mean the truth, we have absolutely no idea if it's really a production car or not, what tyres been used or not.. just because they say something doesn't mean its true. It's just a fancy way for the carmakers try to sell cars, its a called marketing.
The same thing goes for all carmakers.
If I have to believe in something I go to Sportauto since it's independent test and they have no need to lie.
The same thing goes for all carmakers.
If I have to believe in something I go to Sportauto since it's independent test and they have no need to lie.
As far as the objective measurements go, namely laptimes, I really hope so because one would never guess if for some unfathomable reason Christian Gebhardt deliberately decided, at some point, not to go as fast as he could.
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Alfa Romeo Automobiles S.p.A. is an Italian luxury car manufacturer and a subsidiary of
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