Giulia [Renders] 2020 Alfa Romeo 6C / Giulia Coupe

[tristatez28lt1]

Almost -5% down on the market. Today, FCA lost about €1.5 billion in market cap. I understand why. It's all on paper. Nothing real.

 

[Centurion]

Flippin' pipe dreams.

How come you think the plans are unachievable?

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Flippin' pipe dreams.

Just to elaborate on my previous flippant post....

GTV...sure that can happen as it's based on the Stelvio's/Giulia's Giorgio platform. With E-boost, though, I doubt it.

Larger SUV....sure that will probably happen since they can spread cost with the upcoming Jeep GC. But the Levante isn't exactly flying off the shelf. If this is a half-assed effort like the Levante, I'd ask why bother.

8C...definite pipe dream. From a perspective in investing in a project, it looks like a money pit. The only positive I can glean from this is that it will add additional cachet to the marque.

Long base versions... do-able, but is there a lot demand for AR in China, it's target audience for LWB Giulias/Stelvios? What kind of brand equity does AR have with China's buying public?

Giulietta/C UV...if it's based on the Giorgio platform, as per older rumors, then these will see the light of day. I'd focus on the C UV initially if the crossover trend continues.



@Centurion, just saw your post, so hopefully it answers some questions. I've been trying to be hopeful about FCA plight, especially as I like to see AR succeed as I am still fond of the AR brand, but FCA's in bad shape and can't seem to dig themselves out despite Marchionne's numerous initiatives. I remember when I checked out a Giulia Quadro for the first time. I went to pull the hood/bonnet release lever, it broke in my hand. Granted, this is antedoctal (and it may have been broken by another person), but if they are serious in putting their best foot forward, then they ought to have quelled one of it's most historical short-comings: their reliability/durability. There are too many stories of FCA not getting it right with their Giulias. There are not enough enthusiasts in the general buying public that would overlook these issues.

 

[SCOTT27]

I would like to see them succeed. But a lot can happen in that four year timeframe.

 

[John Galt]

 

[anti-VAG]

With E-boost, though, I doubt it.

Really? OMG!

Such an arrogant attitude.

I think that everyone today know how to use Google and search through LinkedIn.
Both BEV (important for Maserati) and P2 48V mild hybrids with e-turbo are in development by Alfa-Maserati R&D center in Modena since at least 2015 if not earlier.

For long wheelbase modela I don't care. But they are must for China and with new lower tariffs for imports...

 

[anti-VAG]

Almost -5% down on the market. Today, FCA lost about €1.5 billion in market cap. I understand why. It's all on paper. Nothing real.

Shame for an Italian. You are one.


Share went down because John Elkann said FCA is not for sale and because they will limit dividends in the future at up to 20% of profit.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Really? OMG!

Such an arrogant attitude.

I think that everyone today know how to use Google and search through LinkedIn.
Both BEV (important for Maserati) and P2 48V mild hybrids with e-turbo are in development by Alfa-Maserati R&D center in Modena since at least 2015 if not earlier.

For long wheelbase modela I don't care. But they are must for China and with new lower tariffs for imports...

I don't doubt they've been working on it for awhile. My issue is whether adding an E-boost set-up to a the TTV6 in the Quadro is sellable. Currently in the US, the Giulia Quadro sells for about US$78-80K, and that's before the dealer sweetening the deals with incentives. And despite these incentives, they aren't exactly flying off the lot. Now let's say AR develops a GTV that's comparable in size to Giulia/3er that has the TTV6 coupled with an E-boost. You are looking at an MSRP of about US$90-100K at a minimum.

This is why I think selling an E-boost on the V6 is going to be difficult. It has nothing to do with their capabilities or engineering prowess. It has to do with whether there's an appetite in the marketplace to sell an AR like that at that strata. Frankly, I would consider it more prudent to either have a coupe version of the Giulia Quadro. That way they've produced something appealing with less investment in powertrain and divert more money in shoring up their short-comings. Or for the more environmentally-minded, I'd couple a hybrid to the 4cyl turbo and sell it at a price-point below the Quadro.

You are more than welcome to call my analysis arrogant, but if FCA continues producing AR's with current interior fit and finish levels and reliability/durability issues and then try and sell a car at or near 911/8er/S-class price levels that is a class below, then I wish them the very best of luck. It may be a very gorgeous-looking car, but I can't see that many buyers taking such a leap of faith.

On a bit of a side-note, one thing I am surprised by AR's upcoming product initiative is the glaring omission of a 5er/E competitor. I guess they can't make a business case for it, especially with crossovers racking up more of the market share than 3-box sedans.

 

[anti-VAG]

I don't doubt they've been working on it for awhile. My issue is whether adding an E-boost set-up to a the TTV6 in the Quadro is sellable.

IMO it is. Actually Giulia QV sales are above expectations at a global level. So a more evoloved product which is not just a Coupe version of a sedan in German style is good way forward.

BTW. What is a Quadro???

That way they've produced something appealing with less investment in powertrain and divert more money in shoring up their short-comings.

According to plan Alfa will have a Level 3 autonomous driving very soon. Keep in mind there is no Level 3 capable vehicle on the market. Not a true Level 3. And on this one FCA is in the same basket as is BMW. They are in JV with Mobileye.

Or for the more environmentally-minded, I'd couple a hybrid to the 4cyl turbo and sell it at a price-point below the Quadro.

E-turbo is usually together with a P2 48V mild hybrid. I doubt that this one will be different. And actually FCA has 11 different P2 48V mild hybrids in the plans by 2020. Some can be under the same nameplate.

One of the engines will be a 2.0 350 HP with e-turbo (they call it a e-boost). Actually engine pictured on a presentation is a Inline 4 and not a V6.

but if FCA continues producing AR's with current interior fit and finish levels and reliability/durability issues

Oh Jesus!

You really believe in it? OK, we are in parallel universes.

 

[anti-VAG]

Panic in a BMW fanboys camp?

We’ve heard several rumors of Alfa Romeo working on a high-performance coupe, based on the Giulia Quadrifoglio, to take on cars like the BMW M4 and Mercedes-AMG C63 Coupe. While it’s now been confirmed that Alfa Romeo will, indeed, be making a high-performance coupe, it’s now more likely that it will compete with the BMW M8 and not the M4.

In a recent tweet from the FCA, it’s been announced that the Italian brand will be making a coupe and it will be called the Alfa Romeo GTV. Fantastic. The tweet followed the FCA’s Five Year Plan meeting in Italy, so expect the GTV within the next few years.

The GTV name is quite old, being one of the brand’s most iconic nameplates. So it’s awesome that Alfa is bringing it back. What’s even better is what this new Alfa Romeo GTV is going to be. According to the FCA’s tweet, it’s going to be a 600+ hp coupe with e-boost. That confirms the rumors that this coupe is going to be some sort of hybrid. While it might not be a plug-in hybrid, with pure electric driving capability, it’s likely to be some sort of MHEV (Mild Hybrid), with an electric motor to add additional power and torque, so as to reduce turbo lag, sort of like the BMW i8’s rear electric motor.

According to this tweet, it will also come with all-wheel drive and torque vectoring, which sort of hints that it’s going to be a bit bigger of a car than the BMW M4. Which is why it’s probably going to be more of an M8 competitors, especially with 600+ hp. It will also feature 2+2 seating which, combined with its all-wheel drive layout, hints at it being more of a high-performance grand tourer than a proper sports car, much like the M8.

bmw blog

 

[Centurion]

Just to elaborate on my previous flippant post....

GTV...sure that can happen as it's based on the Stelvio's/Giulia's Giorgio platform. With E-boost, though, I doubt it.

Larger SUV....sure that will probably happen since they can spread cost with the upcoming Jeep GC. But the Levante isn't exactly flying off the shelf. If this is a half-assed effort like the Levante, I'd ask why bother.

8C...definite pipe dream. From a perspective in investing in a project, it looks like a money pit. The only positive I can glean from this is that it will add additional cachet to the marque.

Long base versions... do-able, but is there a lot demand for AR in China, it's target audience for LWB Giulias/Stelvios? What kind of brand equity does AR have with China's buying public?

Giulietta/C UV...if it's based on the Giorgio platform, as per older rumors, then these will see the light of day. I'd focus on the C UV initially if the crossover trend continues.



@Centurion, just saw your post, so hopefully it answers some questions. I've been trying to be hopeful about FCA plight, especially as I like to see AR succeed as I am still fond of the AR brand, but FCA's in bad shape and can't seem to dig themselves out despite Marchionne's numerous initiatives. I remember when I checked out a Giulia Quadro for the first time. I went to pull the hood/bonnet release lever, it broke in my hand. Granted, this is antedoctal...

I was scratching my head over the LWB versions too. According to this article, Alfa only sold 410 cars in China in November 2017. Long wheel bases will increase appeal but I don't think the Chinese will be forgiving or the paltry interior quality.

Today I read that the Punto hatchback is being discontinued. It's unfortunate that FCA are counting on the Panda and Fiat 500 to serve the bottom end of the market, and aren't putting enough money behind other hatchbacks. Going forward it's clear their ambitions is to generate a lot of revenue from crossovers which is great for generating good cashflow.

 

[anti-VAG]

I don't think the Chinese will be forgiving or the paltry interior quality.

LOL

Keep in mind that you are talking about car with a better interior than 3er. Even German AMuS have written it.

Keep in mind that you are talking about car interior which supplier brought to a VAG's annual supplier meeting instead of A4 B9 interior.

...

I have seen a lot of subjective opinions here.

Today I read that the Punto hatchback is being discontinued. It's unfortunate that FCA are counting on the Panda and Fiat 500 to serve the bottom end of the market, and aren't putting enough money behind other hatchbacks. Going forward it's clear their ambitions is to generate a lot of revenue from crossovers which is great for generating good cashflow.

500 Giardiniera is coming even ina BEV disguise. It's official. It will be a Fiat/FCA B segment offerint in Europe.

 

[anti-VAG]

Quick round up of a new 5 year plan.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

Shame for an Italian. You are one.


Share went down because John Elkann said FCA is not for sale and because they will limit dividends in the future at up to 20% of profit.

What does nationality have to do with the FCA stock price going down?
How are you certain I'm Italian?

 

[anti-VAG]

How are you certain I'm Italian?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

The team that made this presentation made one fundamental mistake-on the slide of the electric propulsion the position P1F is called belt driven electric motor, but the motor drives, it is not driven, if driven it is a generator. Not very promising for such an important presentation.

 

[SCOTT27]

Where is Chrysler and Dodge?
........And Lancia?

 

[anti-VAG]

The team that made this presentation made one fundamental mistake-on the slide of the electric propulsion the position P1F is called belt driven electric motor, but the motor drives, it is not driven, if driven it is a generator. Not very promising for such an important presentation.

Thank You for nitpicking.

But that particular technology is already on sale in a FCA vehicles. Namely a Wrangler and a RAM 1500. That particular technology will most likely not be available in a EU.

For European side of FCA 48V P2 mild hybrid is in the works. A more efficient technology. Of course a more expensive one. Currently only a Mercedes has cars with that technology on sale.

 

[anti-VAG]

Where is Chrysler and Dodge?
........And Lancia?

Where is Fiat?

Even Fiat didn't get its own presentation. But it was mentioned because of future Fiat products which are crucial for FCA's average CO2 emission reduction in the EU.

Presentations were aimed at a global brands which will by FCA projection be a major revenue makers by 2022.

 

[SCOTT27]

I know someone who has a deposit on an Alferi based upon the concept car. We have now passed the expectancy date. How much longer?