Politics The Debate Thread

[EnI]

National self-determinations, referenda for independence, democracy etc etc

Sure that's a fundamental right. BUT ... a state can not exist in a vacuum. It needs a structure, it needs state institutions, it needs solid financing - solid fiscus , and most important: it has to be recognized internationally, by other countries ... so it can trade with them, can become a member of various international bodies (incl. member of UN) etc etc.

Catalonia independence - like Scotland independence, Baskia independence, Corsica independence, Flandria independence etc (include also Bavaria here, and Padania, and South Tirol etc) - HAVE NO support in internationally community. Not even in Europe, within EU.

The only semi-successful case of independence in Europe lately is Kosovo (separating from Serbia). The others are a bit older: from early 90's when communist federations like USSR, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia fell apart, and the by then federal republics became independent, internationally recognized, states. It was a part of a zeitgeist. The new Spring of the nations.

If feel sorry for Catalans & Scots etc ... They'll have to wait for the right time. Just like we did ... Waiting for over 1000 years to become an independent state. It depends mostly on (mighty) others, not on you - when you are able to become an independent state. The realpolitik ... a cruel reality.

 

[chonkoa]

They could ask Erdogan. He knows how to handle that.

That is a cheap shot.

 

[PanterroR]

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[Gianclaudio]

I think people must have the right to decide whether they want to be part of a country or not.....it's a marriage you dind't decide to accept, just were born at, so I'm with catalans on this (and believe, I don't like them too much, by far the most disgusting people I've ever met)

Will explain later, I'm going to a protest rallye right now, our democracy is hanging on a very thin thread.... we're just a tiny step to become Venezuela. f#ck populism.

 

[chonkoa]

Cooler heads? Where? That Catalonian 'prime minister' (horrible person) could do nothing but cave in. The Spanish government is not taking this lightly, it's a near coup d'etat.
Little note: there is ONE prime minister in Spain, and ONE parliament. Both seated in Madrid, the capital of Spain.

Have you dealt with Carles Puigdemont on a personal level to say that he is a horrible person?

 

[klier]

Have you dealt with Carles Puigdemont on a personal level to say that he is a horrible person?

He's a pubic figure, and I have an opinion.

 

[Gianclaudio]

Really short on time to explain, but in few words...Evo Morales is using law tricks to ignore the results of last year's referendum where he loss a consult to modify our constitution and run for another another term (he's already on his third administration period, which itself happened by another legal trick/trap)

We're so f' up, because the guy won't leave the goverment.

 

[chonkoa]

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[chonkoa]

View attachment 425125

Really short on time to explain, but in few words...Evo Morales is using law tricks to ignore the results of last year's referendum where he loss a consult to modify our constitution and run for another another term (he's already on his third administration period, which itself happened by another legal trick/trap)

We're so f' up, because the guy won't leave the goverment.

What baffles me is the arrogance of these leaders to think they are the only the one(s) qualified to do the job. Isn't Morales a leftist?

No one is immune from the toxins of the poisoned chalice of power- hence the necessity to strengthen the institutions to protect the populace and those who drink from the cup.

 

[SDNR]

I think people must have the right to decide whether they want to be part of a country or not

I fully understand why the Catalan people might want to have independence - it's about identity and culture. However, the practical realities of such a move would likely be disastrous for them. It's similar to Scotland, I understand why some want independence but they are almost certainly better off being part of the UK.

 

[SDNR]

Trump Threatens NBC Over Nuclear Weapons Report

WASHINGTON — President Trump threatened on Wednesday to use the federal government’s power to license television airwaves to target NBC in response to a report by the network’s news division that he contemplated a dramatic increase in the nation’s nuclear arsenal.

Now here is a perfect example of why Freedom of Speech must be protected - even if we disagree with what is being said.

The President has no right under the Constitution to threaten NBC like this. This is outrageous.
It is no better than the Democrats who were wanting Fox News shut down.

Freedom of Speech is a founding principal of the United States of America.

 

[Kowalski]

Fake news

 

[Monster]

Trump Threatens NBC Over Nuclear Weapons Report

WASHINGTON — President Trump threatened on Wednesday to use the federal government’s power to license television airwaves to target NBC in response to a report by the network’s news division that he contemplated a dramatic increase in the nation’s nuclear arsenal.

Now here is a perfect example of why Freedom of Speech must be protected - even if we disagree with what is being said.

The President has no right under the Constitution to threaten NBC like this. This is outrageous.
It is no better than the Democrats who were wanting Fox News shut down.

Freedom of Speech is a founding principal of the United States of America.

Lately I have become extremely skeptical of news about Trump in general. Trump has said so many things, I will believe it when I see it actually happening.

 

[SDNR]

Lately I have become extremely skeptical of news about Trump in general. Trump has said so many things, I will believe it when I see it actually happening.

Well he can't do anything to NBC - it would be illegal. However, it is not a good look for any President to be threatening the freedom of the press.


BTW, Ben Affleck has now apologized for groping Hilarie Burton - LOL, it is fun to watch sanctimonious Hollywood stars now turning on each other.

 

[chonkoa]

Fake news

How is that fake news?

 

[chonkoa]

Lately I have become extremely skeptical of news about Trump in general. Trump has said so many things, I will believe it when I see it actually happening.

But he did threaten their license...Whether something comes out of it is a different topic, but he did the threaten the tenants of our society.

 

[SDNR]

But he did threaten their license...Whether something comes out of it is a different topic, but he did the threaten the tenants of our society.

Apparently they don't even have a license because networks don't require one.

Trump has no real understanding, nor respect, for the US constitution.

I just find it amusing how all of a sudden Democrats are such big supporters of the 1st amendment - weren't they the same people pushing for regulations of the internet?

Any Republican who defends Trump over this or his comments on the NFL is a hypocrite if they ever accused the Obama administration of unconstitutional behaviour.

George W. Bush's Patriot Act is absolutely unconstitutional ...and so Is Obama's National Defense Authorization Act (which permits the military to detain individuals indefinitely without trial)

Partisan politics keeps Americans divided while both parties trash their constitutional rights.

 

[Kowalski]

How is that fake news?

It's not the first time that the mainstream media tried to suggest that Trump is in favour of censorship.

 

[SDNR]

It's not the first time that the mainstream media tried to suggest that Trump is in favour of censorship.

He Tweeted out this:

He's probably correct about NBC and their story being "fake news" - but that doesn't change the fact the President has no business threatening them.

America is not a dictatorship, the Media isn't there to please the President.

(You know my feelings about the Media and their obvious bias)

 

[SDNR]

Also, hasn't the President got more important things to do than spend all day on Twitter .....I dunno, like preventing a nuclear war with North Korea?