Vs Swedish AMS: BMW 330i vs Mercedes C280

[Deleted member 25]

Let's put it this way.....the difference was small enough that most average drivers could not take advantage of it, even when pushing the cars on a race track......this is from personal experience....E46 M3 vs C55.

Of course a normal driver won't really notice it but a pilot who pushes the car to its limit will notice it.

 

[Centurion]

thats like saying if bmw wanted to the could "out comfort" Mb if they wanted to but they dont want to.

They could. It is only a matter of putting softer suspension on their cars, doing some mods here and there and they should be able to get the job done. MB and BMW have gigantic resources and if they really wanted to make either of their cars transport your faster or more comfortable around a track they could. They basically have different project strategies.
With that being said the handling discussion concerning the C-class and the 3er can go on forever but both cars will always be best at what they are supposed to. Although that might change in the future when some ground breaking air/magnetism suspension is introduced which allows you to switch between two extremely contrasting suspension settings.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

no you are wrong, Im debating E90 vs W204. I thought everyone did that or have missed the topic Well I havent read every post here so maybe im missing something.

Sorry, I guess I was responding to Shoguiz who mentioned the E46 vs W203 topic in one of his posts, and then you asked about whether there has EVER been a C-class going faster than a 3 series around a lap or slalom speed.

 

[Zafiro]

Sorry, I guess I was responding to Shoguiz who mentioned the E46 vs W203 topic in one of his posts, and then you asked about whether there has EVER been a C-class going faster than a 3 series around a lap or slalom speed.

'aha, okey sorry if I mislead you

 

[merve_extreme]

but yet I havent seen single test were C-class had a faster laptime than 3-series or higher slalomspeed than 3-series, correct me if Im wrong?

your not wrong but the salom speed depends on more factors than handling alone,like tyre grip,now much room the Traction control allows,etc.

i havent seen a direct comparo from a magazine that i can read so i think we will have to wait till the US and UK launches.also the only reason that i believe Mercedes compromises steering feel is to make the cars super stable at high speed crusing.

 

[Zafiro]

i havent seen a direct comparo from a magazine that i can read so i think we will have to wait till the US and UK launches.

there are a few direct comparisons from europe and they all showed advantage for 3-series.

 

[merve_extreme]

maybe,but i havent read them.are any online and in english?

ok i went to 2 german websites and tried to use a translator.these tests were on diesels cars.

AMS:mercedes 2nd place because high price and consumption comapred to 3er

Autobild:2nd place high price,more weight,high consumption.

dosent say nothig about handling,but the Merc rides better and has higher stability than 3er but 3er is more fun to drive.

 

[Zafiro]

maybe,but i havent read them.are any online and in english?

ok i went to 2 german websites and tried to use a translator.these tests were on diesels cars.

AMS:mercedes 2nd place because high price and consumption comapred to 3er

Autobild:2nd place high price,more weight,high consumption.

dosent say nothig about handling,but the Merc rides better and has higher stability than 3er but 3er is more fun to drive.

here are two tests:

http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/14708-swedish-ams-bmw-330i-vs-mercedes-c280.html
Slalom (km/h) …………………... (bmw)61,9 ……….. (mb)59,8

http://www.germancarforum.com/inter...a4-tdi-vs-320d-vs-c220-cdi-vs-passat-tdi.html
Slalom: (bmw)63,1 / (mb)59,7 km/h
Laptime: (bmw)1:53,0 / (mb)1:56,6 min

anyway, its time for me to give up this thread, we arent going any further and I would still pick the 3-series

 

[klier]

dosent say nothig about handling,but the Merc rides better and has higher stability than 3er but 3er is more fun to drive.

What do you even mean with 'rides better'?? I have driven close to all 3er numerous times, and I have driven a few times in the new C220 CDI and C280 (both Avantgarde), and I say the Bimmers 'ride better'.

As for higher stability...no way. Try to make some high speed corners or lane changing on the freeway. The 3er's stability is much better imo.

 

[Tarek]

As for higher stability...no way. Try to make some high speed corners or lane changing on the freeway. The 3er's stability is much better imo.

I did that and i can safely say that MB feels more meaty,solid and composed than BMW.

 

[cawimmer430]

Like I said people have fallen for it. Thats a fact too!

Why buy a BMW when you can get an Infiniti for less money and with more standard features and a driving experience that comes very close to that of BMW?

People have fallen for BMW as well...

Get what I am saying?

 

[Zafiro]

Why buy a BMW when you can get an Infiniti for less money and with more standard features and a driving experience that comes very close to that of BMW?

People have fallen for BMW as well...

Get what I am saying?

no I dont get it. Infinti isnt german

 

[cawimmer430]

Check the sales charts. C class isn't selling like MB wants. Dealerships are so far pretty disappointed with the sales. Maybe that's because of prestige pricing nobody with a right mind pays for exept some die hard Mercedes fans.

Huh?

Last I heard, they had over 45 or 55,000+ orders in all of Europe. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

 

[cawimmer430]

Ah, sorry, but the bimmer wins at handling, as is always did.

The W201 190 Mercedes actually had a more confidant handling feel than the E30 BMW 3-Series, a little known fact.

The W201 190 Mercedes had a then innovative five-link-suspension while the BMW E30 3-Series still had the what? Semi-trailing-rear-arm-suspension, which was vastly inferior according to what I have a read.

Hey, you learn something new everyday!

 

[PanterroR]

Yeah, i know that 190 was the 1st car to feature multi link suspension, but regardless, noone remembers it as a true driver's car... Or better still, as a Ultimate Driving Machine...

 

[cawimmer430]

no I dont get it. Infinti isnt german

BMW's have always been cheaper than Mercedes', traditionally, but BMW, as someone pointed out is also practicing prestige pricing, just not as extreme as Mercedes.

Mercedes can go ahead and ask the prices they want because people are willing to pay, especially since the people buying a Mercedes are on average older and can afford it than the generally younger buyers who go for a BMW. People know that Mercedes is the worlds oldest car brand, they know this and they know about many other things that made this brand great and that's where the willingness to pay comes from.

And my reason for bringing Infiniti into the discussion is that someone can equally dump BMW and go for Infiniti and save himself a lot of money while getting a car that is better equipped than a comparable BMW and gives you a driving experience that is knocking on BMW's front door. Some people don't care about prestige and they'd take a cheaper Infiniti over a BMW anyday. The people that do care about heritage or what a brand stands for, in this case the established German brands, are the people who are willing to shed out the money to buy their BMW or Mercedes etc.

 

[cawimmer430]

Yeah, i know that 190 was the 1st car to feature multi link suspension, but regardless, noone remembers it as a true driver's car... Or better still, as a Ultimate Driving Machine...

Incorrect. Ever hear about the 190E Evolution and Evolution II? These were hardcore sports sedans which had nothing in common with the standard 190-Series, including the much hailed 190E 2.3-16 and 2.5-16 models, which were softer and more "Mercedes" with a high degree of sport mixed into it.

The Evolution and Evolution II models were hardcore from the very beginning. Designed for the track and track performance. If you remember the mid 1980s DTM racing season, it was always the BMW M3 vs Mercedes 190E Evolution / Evolution II. And both cars got their share of victories...

 

[klier]

Huh?

Last I heard, they had over 45 or 55,000+ orders in all of Europe. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

It's what a good friend who works at a MB dealership says... I didn't look at any official numbers, but he didn't sound too happy. Don't get me wrong, the car is doing fine. They just expected more!!!

 

[PanterroR]

Incorrect. Ever hear about the 190E Evolution and Evolution II?

Who gives a damn for EVO version and such? I'm talking about regular cars!

So no, not incorrect, rather 100% true! And you know that, Muhldorfer. MB had to make an EVO Hardcore version of 190 E to be "on pair" with E30...

 

[cawimmer430]

It's what a good friend who works at a MB dealership says... I didn't look at any official numbers, but he didn't sound too happy. Don't get me wrong, the car is doing fine. They just expected more!!!

Is this for Holland? Because I can't picture a salesman at a Dutch Mercedes dealership getting sales data for all of Europe and perhaps a letter from the DCX Headquarters in Stuttgart complaining about this.