Vs Swedish AMS: BMW 330i vs Mercedes C280

[Giannis]

buy yourself a dictionary

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Oh and just to make sure no-one confuses me for taking sides bear in mind that I'm a huge fan of the twin turbo'd six. But here's the thing; if BMW hadn't gone the turbocharging route then they'd be left without a competitor to the 3.5 CGI V6 with its enhanced power output and torque figures.

Well in other words, if MB wouldn't have put CGI in the 3.5 (vs. 3.0) then they'd be left without a competitor to the 3.0 I6 TTI with its enhanced power output and torque figures.

Merc's V6 engines may not match BMW I6 engines for delivery and charisma but they will be pretty close when it comes to real-world usability and consumer appeal.

Not when considering:

a) they're behind
b) offer poor value
c) this is not were the grand battle is, the 2 to 2.5 litre diesel is; that's were the vast majority of sales come (again advantage BMW);

That new Merc is stunning as it is and is destined to get better. Dynamically not on par? Perhaps, but in terms of the ownership prospect? More than equal.

Remember, good handling isn't just about grip and lateral G, it's also about composure, suppleness and absorbtion. When the road maintenance guys don't do their jobs - it'll be the Merc that rolls with the punches better.

Ah, sorry, but the bimmer wins at handling, as is always did. BMW also has the tradition/heritage and therefor perception on their side.

MB will simply bang their head into the perception wall and be left with cars stuck on dealers stores.

I now this coming the dealer boys themselves. It's not the case everywhere, but on sporty appeal BMW and Audi are on a higher level of perception who can tip the scale (severly), regardless of how good MBs offerings are.

The great challenge will be the next A4, the Merc probably lost the battle before it even begun.

 

[LaArtist]

^once again where is the proof of dealers complaining about the C..
this is the 2nd time ive heard this twice now.. without seeing it

 

[merve_extreme]

Ah, sorry, but the bimmer wins at handling, as is always did. BMW also has the tradition/heritage and therefor perception on their side.

A 3 series is not dynamically superior to a C-class,the C-class handles as well as any 3 series.What the 3 series offers over the C is that it offers more feel,more precise steering for the driver.

That makes it a better drivers car but not a better handling car.Most drivers would run out of their abilities long before any of these cars reach their handling limits.

what Mercedes offers unique to this segment it that the car handles very well,has decent feel for the driver but has the ride quality from a class above.A typical Mercedes.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

A 3 series is not dynamically superior to a C-class,the C-class handles as well as any 3 series.What the 3 series offers over the C is that it offers more feel,more precise steering for the driver.

That makes it a better drivers car but not a better handling car.Most drivers would run out of their abilities long before any of these cars reach their handling limits.

what Mercedes offers unique to this segment it that the car handles very well,has decent feel for the driver but has the ride quality from a class above.A typical Mercedes.

I agree with you 100%, but unfortunately, that will unlikely take away sales from the BMW 3 series, where you've got all the "sport" aspect covered: image, driving feel, AND actual handling ability. MB is sorely lacking in the image department when it comes to being hip and sporty for the typical 25-40 year old age bracket.

 

[Deleted member 25]

A 3 series is not dynamically superior to a C-class,the C-class handles as well as any 3 series.What the 3 series offers over the C is that it offers more feel,more precise steering for the driver.

I highly doubt about that, all tests i have seen that compare the cars ' ability to avoid obstacles and max speed at corners always gave the edge to the previous gen 3 series over old C class.

 

[Centurion]

What damaged the c-class was the pre facelifted W203 which is a a very disappointing premium car. The other reason why the 3er has been selling more is linked to the price for these cars. When the E46 was around the 316i had a price just above 20k while the cheapest c-class was listed at 25.6k. 5k difference is pretty for a young person looking for a small sedan. The 3er has simply been of a better value.

The new C is pretty pricey. 28.7k for the 180C here in Sweden, add the elegance package, leather, CD-disc changer, metallic paint, automatic tranny and your final tag will easily reach 35k, and that's only for the C180.

 

[merve_extreme]

I highly doubt about that, all tests i have seen that compare the cars ' ability to avoid obstacles and max speed at corners always gave the edge to the previous gen 3 series over old C class.

i am talking of the current W204 C-Class,also the facelifted W203 was a much better car than the Pre-facelifted one.

What damaged the c-class was the pre facelifted W203 which is a a very disappointing premium car

100% agree,that car promised so much but failed to live upto the expectations.

I agree with you 100%, but unfortunately, that will unlikely take away sales from the BMW 3 series, where you've got all the "sport" aspect covered: image, driving feel, AND actual handling ability. MB is sorely lacking in the image department when it comes to being hip and sporty for the typical 25-40 year old age bracket.

Agree,Mecedes lacks the youth,sporty image.But they are addressing that by providing 2 different models.This C may not have high impact on the 3er but it will set a entry point for Mercedes cars as being sporty and youthfull as well as being supremely comfortable.

 

[Zafiro]

i am talking of the current W204 C-Class,also the facelifted W203 was a much better car than the Pre-facelifted one.

but yet I havent seen single test were C-class had a faster laptime than 3-series or higher slalomspeed than 3-series, correct me if Im wrong?

although in real life we wont notice a difference if we are an average driver but put these two cars in the hands of pro-drivers and the conclusion will show 3-series is a better handler. I'm sure of it. Dont take it wrong, new C-class handles better than most cars but test their limits and there is only one winner.

Also I have driven the new Volvo C30 and that cars handle better than people will handle. Actually there arent many bad handling cars on the market today, if any.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

I highly doubt about that, all tests i have seen that compares the cars ' ability to avois obstacles and max speed at corners always gave the edge to the previous gen 3 series over old C class.

I agree that the E46 3 series always had slightly higher skidpad numbers and slalom speeds than the W203 C-class, but the difference was very small, especially for the facelifted W203. It wasn't a night and day difference.

 

[Deleted member 25]

i am talking of the current W204 C-Class,also the facelifted W203 was a much better car than the Pre-facelifted one.

The facelifted was included in the test i spoke about and yet it was far behind the 3 series, and i really doubt the new car will improve enough to be equal to the E92, but let's wait to some serious tests to confirm that.

 

[LaArtist]

haha what is the buisness of a pro driver in a 3er..to him its as fun as walking is to you and me...lol
some ppl just over estimate the 3er sporty ness

 

[Centurion]

but yet I havent seen single test were C-class had a faster laptime than 3-series or higher slalomspeed than 3-series, correct me if Im wrong?

Your not wrong. That's exactly how MB wants and that's how it's supposed to be. The C-class is not meant to beat the 3er around tracks. If MB really wanted to "out sport" the 3er they would have done it, but they don't want too.

 

[Deleted member 25]

I agree that the E46 3 series always had slightly higher skidpad numbers and slalom speeds than the W203 C-class, but the difference was very small, especially for the facelifted W203. It wasn't a night and day difference.

It wasn't night & day but it was a real difference.

 

[Zafiro]

If MB really wanted to "out sport" the 3er they would have done it, but they don't want too.

thats like saying if bmw wanted to the could "out comfort" Mb if they wanted to but they dont want to.

 

[Deleted member 25]

haha what is the buisness of a pro driver in a 3er..to him its as fun as walking is to you and me...lol
some ppl just over estimate the 3er sporty ness

Who overestimate the 3 er sportiness and how ?

 

[PC Valkyrie]

What damaged the c-class was the pre facelifted W203 which is a a very disappointing premium car.

I completely agree with you too. As a comfort cruiser, the pre-facelift W203 C-class was fine. But it was a significantly behind the E46 3 series when it came to handling ability. It's been an uphill battle for MB ever since. And by the time the facelifted W203 came, the even more superior E90 3 series came along.......

 

[PC Valkyrie]

It wasn't night & day but it was a real difference.

Let's put it this way.....the difference was small enough that most average drivers could not take advantage of it, even when pushing the cars on a race track......this is from personal experience....E46 M3 vs C55.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

but yet I havent seen single test were C-class had a faster laptime than 3-series or higher slalomspeed than 3-series, correct me if Im wrong?

You're wrong :

Motortrend:
M3 CS vs C55
600ft slalom (mph): 66.6/67.5

OK, I'm done, and I've needlessly contributed to this thread going a bit off topic.

The bottom line is the 3 series has ALWAYS been a better sports sedan than the C-class (image, driving feel, objective handling numbers). The facelifted W203 came the closest to matching the 3 series, but it still came up a bit short. Whether the W204 will finally make a hurdle over the E90/E92 3 series is going go to be the subject of many comparison tests in the next few months. We've seen some preliminary ones from Europe already. I somehow doubt the W204 will actually BEAT the 3 series in terms of being more sporty.

 

[Zafiro]

You're wrong :

Motortrend:
M3 CS vs C55
600ft slalom (mph): 66.6/67.5

no you are wrong, Im debating E90 vs W204. I thought everyone did that or have missed the topic Well I havent read every post here so maybe im missing something.