1 Series [Spyshots] BMW 1-Series Sedan

[KiwiRob]

Don't the A3 and A Class outsell the 1 series? If that is true isn't it more a case of BMW playing catch up, which they have been doing since Audi launched the A3 in 96.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Don't the A3 and A Class outsell the 1 series? If that is true isn't it more a case of BMW playing catch up, which they have been doing since Audi launched the A3 in 96.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[as7920]

A big reason for that is BMW stopping their RWD-touting advertisements and replacing them with cafe-latte-frappacino-drinking metrosexuals in the "Joy" adverts. It was clear from that moment that their target market isn't driving enthusiasts but the high-income, IT consultant, hipsters.

Then do a survey - and we have to take their word for it that it was actually done - which says 80% of 1 Series drivers think their car is FWD. No shit Sherlock!

Hey, I'm an IT Consultant and definitely no hipster! Cheeky.

 

[KiwiRob]

What does that have to do with anything?

That has everything to do with it. The RWD 1 series isn't the right car to compete agains the FWD A3 and A Class. Think about it, you're a youngish family in the market for an upmarket Golf, you have a couple of kids, you need space for them, their crap and a buggy, the A3 is your car, it has much more space, its more practice. This is BMW building a better A3 & A Class competitor than what they have today, the UKL platform give them this ability. We already know the next 1 series will be FWD so this is the next logical step, a small FWD saloon.

 

[KiwiRob]

Don't know if he was joking or not but he said he won't be buying another X1 or 1-series if they go FWD (my father is soon to be 65).

Why would he care if the X1 was based on a FWD or RWD platform, it only matters if he's cheap and doesn't by the X drive variant.

 

[martinbo]

You are one of the exceptions, anyone who buys the M235 or M135 will be in the same boat as you, but since most 1 series are 116, 118, 120D's, does it really make much difference to these people which end is driven?

This is missing the point entirely.

For many BMW customers it does matter which wheels are driven - they might not be racers or car journos but they still know and it still matter to them.
For those customers who didn't know and still bought a 1er because they liked it, it stands to reason that RWD didn't affect their purchasing decision. So what they don't know won't break the deal.
(Or perhaps, innately, many of these customers intuitively felt the BMW drove differently to an A3 or a Golf?)

So now, you say that the plan to alienate an entire demographic of car enthusiasts who value BMW's driving dynamic simply because a different (and unquantifiable) demographic has no clue is justifiable?
By your own words - they don't know; so why should they care and therefore why should BMW move away from core values for them solely?

And before you talk about interior space and packaging - it is worth noting that the BMW 1er is very close in cabin and stowage capaciousness to its principle rival: the Audi A3 + A3 Sportback. They're all still compact cars with a certain footprint size.

It's a money-spinner is all and it's deplorable.

 

[Zafiro]

Why would he care if the X1 was based on a FWD or RWD platform, it only matters if he's cheap and doesn't by the X drive variant.

Because He has been driving RWD bimmers since the 90's with only positive experiences.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

That has everything to do with it.

You're correlating higher sales for the A3/A-Class because of the FWD aspect, which may not be the case.

What about the people who bought a 1 Series BECAUSE of the RWD? By making the next 1 Series FWD, you're giving them a reason to look at the A-Class and A3 now.


This survey by BMW which said that 80% of 1 Series drivers think their car is FWD.......who says it's even genuine? Has anybody confirmed this? BMW can just come out with this statement, nobody is checking. What it DOES do is give them justification for switching to FWD because they know full well it will damage their image.

Switching to FWD is DIRECTLY against BMWs image that they're the "sportiest" brand, just like selling more 3 Series cars than Ford Mondeos, is DIRECTLY against their "premium" image. Keep chipping away at those two aspects and BMW will leave the consumer confused as to what they actually represent.

 

[tomazino]

When we talk about RWD or FWD platforms, on which platform are Porsche Macan, Cayenne, Panamera,...

 

[KiwiRob]

This is missing the point entirely.

For many BMW customers it does matter which wheels are driven - they might not be racers or car journos but they still know and it still matter to them.
For those customers who didn't know and still bought a 1er because they liked it, it stands to reason that RWD didn't affect their purchasing decision. So what they don't know won't break the deal.
(Or perhaps, innately, many of these customers intuitively felt the BMW drove differently to an A3 or a Golf?)

I'm betting the number of customers who care and the number of customers who don't is probably well in favour of those don't care. Isolating a few owners who want a RWD 1 series vs building a car which costs them less money to make but can sell for the same amount is what BMW is doing here. Who could blame them, BMW are not a charitable organisation for RWD fanboys.

So now, you say that the plan to alienate an entire demographic of car enthusiasts who value BMW's driving dynamic simply because a different (and unquantifiable) demographic has no clue is justifiable?
By your own words - they don't know; so why should they care and therefore why should BMW move away from core values for them solely?

It's all about profit, BMW can most likely build this small saloon on the UKL platform for a lot less than what it would cost to build it on the 1 series RWD platform, since they know that most customers in this market have accepted FWD (hence the popularity of A3 and A class) they would be daft not to do the same. For the performace models they will be X Drive.

BMW has been moving away from it's core values since the first X5 hit the dealers.

But they still have the core models, 3, 5 & 7, which are all still RWD. Whatever else them make even if they are all FWD does it matter?

And before you talk about interior space and packaging - it is worth noting that the BMW 1er is very close in cabin and stowage capaciousness to its principle rival: the Audi A3 + A3 Sportback. They're all still compact cars with a certain footprint size.

It's a money-spinner is all and it's deplorable.

Get in the back seat of an A3 then jump into the back seat of a 1 series, the A3 has a lot more space, it also has a much better shaped boot, especially if you're putting a buggy in it.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

It's all about profit, BMW can most likely build this small saloon on the UKL platform for a lot less than what it would cost to build it on the 1 series RWD platform

Nobody is disputing WHY BMW are doing this. The debate is to what cost to their sporty image.

 

[KiwiRob]

You're correlating higher sales for the A3/A-Class because of the FWD aspect, which may not be the case.

What about the people who bought a 1 Series BECAUSE of the RWD? By making the next 1 Series FWD, you're giving them a reason to look at the A-Class and A3 now.


This survey by BMW which said that 80% of 1 Series drivers think their car is FWD.......who says it's even genuine? Has anybody confirmed this? BMW can just come out with this statement, nobody is checking. What it DOES do is give them justification for switching to FWD because they know full well it will damage their image.

Why would they lie about that?

My guess is the only people who really took note and bought the 1 series because it was RWD are the ones buying the performance models. I have no way of knowing this but I bet for every 135i there are many times more lesser models sold, which we know according to BMW's research have owners who thought their car was FWD.

It's not going to damage their image if the core models 3(4), 5 & 6 & 7 are still RWD. BMW can do what ever it likes with the other models, people will buy them regardless of what end is driven, so to maximise profits they going to switch all modesl under the 3er to FWD, why not, it hasn't hurt Mercedes, it works for Audi, so there is not reason why it can't work for BMW. We know that despite what people said when the first X5 was launced BMW's reputation is still as strong as ever, many folks saw the X5 as the end of BMW and damaging to it's image.

 

[KiwiRob]

Nobody is disputing WHY BMW are doing this. The debate is to what cost to their sporty image.

No cost at all IMO, you can still buy a sporty BMW. You can buy sporty FWD cars too, they are called hot hatches, VW makes a nice one, it's called the Golf GTi, Ford make several, the Fiesta and Focus ST's.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Why would they lie about that?

Did you not read my post?

"What it DOES do is give them justification for switching to FWD"

It's not going to damage their image if the core models 3(4), 5 & 6 & 7 are still RWD.

You don't get more core than the entry level 1 Series.

it hasn't hurt Mercedes, it works for Audi, so there is not reason why it can't work for BMW.

Audi and MB didn't build a whole brand around RWD.

We know that despite what people said when the first X5 was launced BMW's reputation is still as strong as ever, many folks saw the X5 as the end of BMW and damaging to it's image.

It's one thing launching an SUV which is inherently "unsporty", and abandoning your RWD ethos to make a mainstream, entry-level sedan and hatchback. By definition an SUV is compromised by it's size and 4WD. However, there is no need for the next 1 Series to be FWD. It would still be a small hatchback sedan with RWD. BMW have made conscious decision to make it FWD and go after bigger sales whilst gambling their reputation on it.

No cost at all IMO, you can still buy a sporty BMW. You can buy sporty FWD cars too, they are called hot hatches, VW makes a nice one, it's called the Golf GTi, Ford make several, the Fiesta and Focus ST's.

And BMW are giving people even more reason to choose the cheaper alternatives such as the GTi and Focus ST.

 

[Mr Robert]

What about the people who bought a 1 Series BECAUSE of the RWD?

This is me. I didn't buy the current 1-series because of its looks, but the RWD was the sole reason it was even contemplated.

 

[KiwiRob]

Did you not read my post?

"What it DOES do is give them justification for switching to FWD"

You don't get more core than the entry level 1 Series.

I don't see the 1 series as a core model, it's a smaller cheaper derivative of the 3 series. If it was the 3 series going FWD then I'd be concerned (even though I think it will eventually happen)

Audi and MB didn't build a whole brand around RWD.

Until the A class Mercedes were firmly in the RWD camp. Audi have never been there but it somewhat proves you don't need RWD to be a success in the premium market.

It's one thing launching an SUV which is inherently "unsporty", and abandoning your RWD ethos to make a mainstream, entry-level sedan and hatchback. By definition an SUV is compromised by it's size and 4WD. However, there is no need for the next 1 Series to be FWD. It would still be a small hatchback sedan with RWD. BMW have made conscious decision to make it FWD and go after bigger sales whilst gambling their reputation on it.

As you pointed out earlier BMW abandoned there RWD ethos a long time ago, they did this when the X models and X drive arrived.

You said it "mainstream", well a small RWD hatch and entry level sedan hasn't been mainstream for about 30 years now, the 1 series was an oddity. Being a RWD small sedan or hatch is a compromise, RWD takes up more interior and load space, I'm pretty certain it also makes it more expensive to built, profits would be lower. You're also not the mainstream buyer for one of these types of car, you bought the M235, that's not the mainstream version.

And BMW are giving people even more reason to choose the cheaper alternatives such as the GTi and Focus ST.

BMW will now be able to offer a direct GTi, ST competitor, which they can't now, the x35 models are a step above. You appear to think FWD cars aren't fun to drive, they are, they can be just as much fun as RWD.

 

[KiwiRob]

This is me. I didn't buy the current 1-series because of its looks, but the RWD was the sole reason it was even contemplated.

So what, that's why you bought it, I bet for the majority of owners the main reason why they chose the BMW over a Focus, Golf or A3 was because of the BMW badge, I doubt they care what end is driven, this is what BMW is banking on, they can build what most people want on a cheaper platform, sell it for the same money and make higher profits for the Quandts.

 

[Cabasse0]

This is me. I didn't buy the current 1-series because of its looks, but the RWD was the sole reason it was even contemplated.

I bought a m135i because it's rwd and the only hatch With a 6 cylinder engine .. Not fan of the look but when you drive the car you're inside
I stil miss also my previous 130i !
Sold my m135i 2 months ago waiting for the new facelift model but then i will keep it if i have to buy a FWD i will buy a mini CooperS !

 

[Beemer B773ER]

This is missing the point entirely.

For many BMW customers it does matter which wheels are driven - they might not be racers or car journos but they still know and it still matter to them.

I think you're grossly overestimating the number of potential 1 series buyers who actually care about which wheels are being driven. They may care about wanting a car that has a sporty image or has a slightly more sporty feel, but I highly doubt they're thinking 'RWD is why I want this car!'. I don't think they knowledgeable or passionate/care enough to know why this BMW drives better than that Audi or Mercedes.

The car-guy/enthusiast pool is small enough as it is, but the number of enthusiasts who would opt for a 116i/18i/120i hatch/sedan because it is RWD is an even smaller number. These days, I imagine it's easier to create a car that provides some level of sportiness by taking advantage of electronic engineering, rather than going the mechanical engineering route. For us enthusiasts who have values and principals, this is not acceptable, but the vast majority of BMW buyers are not us. Sadly.

 

[Mars1965]

I don't see the 1 series as a core model, it's a smaller cheaper derivative of the 3 series. If it was the 3 series going FWD then I'd be concerned (even though I think it will eventually happen)



Until the A class Mercedes were firmly in the RWD camp. Audi have never been there but it somewhat proves you don't need RWD to be a success in the premium market.



As you pointed out earlier BMW abandoned there RWD ethos a long time ago, they did this when the X models and X drive arrived.

You said it "mainstream", well a small RWD hatch and entry level sedan hasn't been mainstream for about 30 years now, the 1 series was an oddity. Being a RWD small sedan or hatch is a compromise, RWD takes up more interior and load space, I'm pretty certain it also makes it more expensive to built, profits would be lower. You're also not the mainstream buyer for one of these types of car, you bought the M235, that's not the mainstream version.



BMW will now be able to offer a direct GTi, ST competitor, which they can't now, the x35 models are a step above. You appear to think FWD cars aren't fun to drive, they are, they can be just as much fun as RWD.

Agree with you, although I don't think from 3er up BMW will offer FWD. In my opinion the 3er will stay RWD.