7 Series (G11/G12) [Spy shots] BMW 7er (G11) Spy Pics & Info

[Rainer271]

In other news the next 3er drops 100KG as does the X3.

Internal news which you have heard or news of press sources?

 

[SKY]

Really unmature how hurted are some BMW fans with new MB models. To me it just proves how great is MB doing and how hard BMW has to work in some areas. Kind of a repeating partern, as back when I started posting here (2008) and the F01 was about to debut, the situation was completely the opposite, and MB fans were trolling BMW on every thread.

C´mon guys, the W222 being that great will only encourage BMW to work harder and give us a better G11.

 

[SCOTT27]

Really unmature how hurted are some BMW fans with new MB models. To me it just proves how great is MB doing and how hard BMW has to work in some areas. Kind of a repeating partern, as back when I started posting here (2008) and the F01 was about to debut, the situation was completely the opposite, and MB fans were trolling BMW on every thread.

C´mon guys, the W222 being that great will only encourage BMW to work harder and give us a better G11.

That is exactly the G11. It will showcase Mercedes lack of vision in its engineering.
Those first EfficientDynamics innovation day symposiums are fast approaching.

 

[Rainer271]

Rumors posted by a member at "7-Forum.com":

- 725d with more power than the recent x25d
- full autonomous parking from the outside controlled with the key
- revised ambient light, including illuminated sunroof (LED inside of the sunroof frame)
- M performance version
- key with an integrated display, similar to this one:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/BMW-i8-8.jpg

http://www.7-forum.com/forum/40/bilder-f01-nachfolger-ams-207468-3.html

 

[SKY]

That automated parking with you outside the vehicle is sooooo cool

 

[bimmerjph]

In other news the next 3er drops 100KG as does the X3.

Real weight savings? Or is BMW also going to put in 100kg worth of electronic crap?

 

[SCOTT27]

Rumors posted by a member at "7-Forum.com":

- 725d with more power than the recent x25d
- full autonomous parking from the outside controlled with the key
- revised ambient light, including illuminated sunroof (LED inside of the sunroof frame)
- M performance version
- key with an integrated display, similar to this one:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/BMW-i8-8.jpg

http://www.7-forum.com/forum/40/bilder-f01-nachfolger-ams-207468-3.html

Yes the display key is coming for the i8 and will be used in the next generation of BMWs.
Also under development for future introduction is a BMW designed smart phone and tablet.
Autonomous parking will also feature on the next 7er and 5er.
The 760Li remains with upgraded V12 with PS just under the output of the Rolls-Royce Wraith.
A first of a kind full M model will be determined by initial sales response.
Heavily updated Dynamic Performance Control developed to use the advantage of the 7er lighter weight.
More ambient light used within the car as well as the sunroof and usual interior areas , will also be used within the centre console and along the transmission tunnel.
Augmented reality HUD display linked via ConnectedDrive.

 

[SCOTT27]

Real weight savings? Or is BMW also going to put in 100kg worth of electronic crap?

100KG will be dropped from overall weight due to application of Carbon in specific weight bearing sections. This is not about adding a smaller fuel tank.

 

[Carmaker1]

The timeframe @Carmaker1 proposes is pretty correct, design freeze was even a little earlier. So, no doubt, design is finalized and will not be changed anymore (even though the 'small changes' referred to can sometimes have a huge effect. I remember the final pre-launch phases of the first gen-X5 and the current Bentley Mulsanne. In the former, the shape of the indicator glass was changed very late so that even first press shots showed the original one. In the latter the chrome frame around the side windows was finally made up of less separate pieces and the front fender was decided to be formed out of a single sheet of aluminum which is really sophisticated. All these measures are small ones but had a noticeable effect on the final result).

Anyway, even 'late' prototypes can deliberately be equipped with old parts (which includes the dash) depending on what is tested. BMW is not as strict as the VAG where pretty much nothing new is tested in public but even many (low- to mid-level) developers do not know much more than the specific part they're working on .... More concretely: a team can develop or implement iDrive specifications 24/7 and still don't know how the corresponding screen will look except for its size.

I had actually said late 2012 to be on the conservative side, but I suppose it was July/August 2012 for the G11 design freeze? Why 37-38 months for lead time? I figure you are not allowed to confirm this directly, in it still being an ongoing program. I thought at BMW, they had since reverted to a fixed 30-month freeze lead time with the E85 Z4 (March 2000-September 2002). Must be the carbon fiber application or added complexities.

(Off-topic)
As for the E53, that's quite interesting to hear. However, I'm not so sure by what you meant regarding indicators in the "final pre-launch phase". Front or rear? Was it just the surfacing of the glass or shape of the light? By June 10, 1998, the E53 documented as a CAD render, was already 100% identical to the X5 (FEP prototype) unveiled in January 1999 (likely photographed in late 1998).

Sometime between (circa) October 1996 (35-month "development") and prior to June 10, 1998 (patent), the E53 went through those changes you mentioned. I'd wager this alteration happened by early 1998, unless those "press shots" were taken immediately after the design freeze circa early 1997 (for market testing purposes)?

I am still trying to figure out if the X5 initial freeze was at -35 months (October 1996) or first half of 1997. The first prototypes were out towards the end of 1997, so at least 6 months I figure were spent on preparing the first batch of prototypes from early/mid 1997. Doing this for a living, I like to know the full age & history of every automobile's appearance/design upon first sight and the work behind it (explanation for my obsession).

As for the Mulsanne, it has not been one of my favourite Bentleys (dad extremely hates it), but it does what it's supposed to do. That was frozen in September 2007 (also recently met Gareth Thomas), so I wonder how VAG handles last minute changes on that front? The next Q7 comes to mind. The Mulsanne was barely spotted 22 months later as a disguised prototype (not incl. Arnage mules), which tells me that VAG employs more closed off testing. Compared to BMW and Daimler AG, where prototypes seem as if they are on a fashion runaway.

 

[SCOTT27]

I had actually said late 2012 to be on the conservative side, but I suppose it was July/August 2012 for the G11 design freeze? Why 37-38 months for lead time? I figure you are not allowed to confirm this directly, in it still being an ongoing program. I thought at BMW, they had since reverted to a fixed 30-month freeze lead time with the E85 Z4 (March 2000-September 2002). Must be the carbon fiber application or added complexities.

(Off-topic)
As for the E53, that's quite interesting to hear. However, I'm not so sure by what you meant regarding indicators in the "final pre-launch phase". Front or rear? Was it just the surfacing of the glass or shape of the light? By June 10, 1998, the E53 documented as a CAD render, was already 100% identical to the X5 (FEP prototype) unveiled in January 1999 (likely photographed in late 1998).

Sometime between (circa) October 1996 (35-month "development") and prior to June 10, 1998 (patent), the E53 went through those changes you mentioned. I'd wager this alteration happened by early 1998, unless those "press shots" were taken immediately after the design freeze circa early 1997 (for market testing purposes)?

I am still trying to figure out if the X5 initial freeze was at -35 months (October 1996) or first half of 1997. The first prototypes were out towards the end of 1997, so at least 6 months I figure were spent on preparing the first batch of prototypes from early/mid 1997. Doing this for a living, I like to know the full age & history of every automobile's appearance/design upon first sight and the work behind it (explanation for my obsession).

As for the Mulsanne, it has not been one of my favourite Bentleys (dad extremely hates it), but it does what it's supposed to do. That was frozen in September 2007 (also recently met Gareth Thomas), so I wonder how VAG handles last minute changes on that front? The next Q7 comes to mind. The Mulsanne was barely spotted 22 months later as a disguised prototype (not incl. Arnage mules), which tells me that VAG employs more closed off testing. Compared to BMW and Daimler AG, where prototypes seem as if they are on a fashion runaway.

@ Carmaker1 this is a good insight to see how changes progress within the development of a model.
Especially the E63 6er which was conceived to offer a folding hard top. As well as other challenges. It might be almost 15 years old when taken into account the conception process (Klier had a 645i 10 years ago when it seems like only yesterday and 10 years when I looked much younger on film.
The current F12 6er was also considered with a hardtop with early prototypes testing both. There is design pictures not showing the rear section as it ended up being.

http://www.germancarforum.com/community/threads/bmw-design-and-development-videos.49502/

 

[SCOTT27]

Close...But not close enough.

 

[Sniper]

Close...But not close enough.

Better than this

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Close...But not close enough.

Which aspects are close, and which are off?

 

[kiki voinea]

Which aspects are close, and which are off?

OFF- The driver in the pic

 

[SCOTT27]

Which aspects are close, and which are off?

Well since the render is based on the F01 there is still some F01 in the render especially from that angle.
The character-line again is at door glasshouse level but like modern BMWs there is a bit more dimension in the line so that it is more prominent. The grille on the G11 is also slightly more three dimensional , the front looks bland in the render when it is more technical and slightly angular for the headlights. Thumbs up for the mirrors , and air breather and surrounding sill detail.

 

[Busty]

I had actually said late 2012 to be on the conservative side, but I suppose it was July/August 2012 for the G11 design freeze? Why 37-38 months for lead time? I figure you are not allowed to .......

Since the discussion is really on topic again, I'm gonna answer you in as little room and as good as I can.
G11 design freeze: The 30 month-frame you refer to is actually a 'rule'. However, it's pretty clear that depending on the complexity of the product etc. this needs to be varied. With this particular car, I don't know exactly since I joined this project only after it had started. My impression was from the very beginning on that BMW wanted to really do it right and without any delay both with regard to the weaknesses of the F01 and the expected strengths of the W222 which became more concrete then.
Mulsanne: Oh, I love this car. Had the pleasure to move it a couple of times .... gorgeous. Where did you find the great pic, btw? In this pic, you can actually see variants of the front wing with less or more edging. This is what I meant. The inner of the two almost vertical lines in the final car came later. I guess the following video shows the earlier version at around 0:40.

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Such a move can only be made in an almost hand built car, I guess.
E53: Timewise, I cannot keep up with you, sorry. (I'm getting old, man.) As far as I remember, the attached pic was part of the first official set. The difference is veeeery subtle but I remember how I thought: 'that just doesn't look right' before and was relieved later.


And now: Back to G11

 

[JPATT93]

Scotty, can you discuss the rear of the car. Light shape? Will the OLEDS make it on the G11? I really want this design not to be boring or typical bmw.

 

[SCOTT27]

The rear lights are something to this - Place higher yet Slimmer and longer. No OLEDs yet.

The actual car is reminiscent of this render especially in how the character line is implemented.
Here you see the further three dimensional shadow underneath typical of current BMWs as it widens the rear arches out wards to cover the wheel and gives an impression of a wider track therefore giving the car a more sporting profile when viewed from the rear.
Here is some alternative views of the G12 extended wheelbase. As you can see the profile is typical dynamic BMW. And its an exact reflection of the above render when we compare profile and overhang.

 

[SCOTT27]

The G11.

 

[Busty]

Nice new avatar @SCOTT27