7 Series (G11/G12) [Spy shots] BMW 7er (G11) Spy Pics & Info

[klier]

^ + 1

I'll make sure the fanboydom stays
And you can keep it serious and informative

Also, I am betting this thread will reach 100 pages before launch! Come on BMW guys, we will have to outdo the W222 spy pics thread. We can do it!

 

[SCOTT27]

Confidentiality in the design process is a relative issue, in my opinion. Of course, there are strict rules and according paragraphs in the contracts but it's everyday business that designers change their employers. People outside the industry sometimes create the image of wars between brands and, accordingly, assume developers take blood oaths or so. Also, design is considered as very subjective. Rather, car design as it is done today is rather 'sciency' and bound to various rules. Most designers are very well able to quickly adapt to the new surroundings and the factual data that they have to adhere to. In the first design rounds, there are also mostly external experts (design professors etc.) involved who give their advice and have a vote in the decisions.

I share @Carmaker1's impression that the G11 is developed with the W222 (very concretely) in mind. I only know rumors about how it went design-wise but in terms of HMI-issues, driver-assistence technologies, and finish, it is (and has been) definitely the case. The W222 was carefully scrutinized at its official presentation, and repeatedly since then. Also, and quite logically, its market performance is observed closely and reacted to. In the industry, the W222 is considered a very good car but not without weaknesses that are indeed focussed on (some surprisingly in core Mercedes domains) by the competition. At least in the early cars sold, for instance, quality has been an issue (e.g. horrible fit of the doors) with noticeable customer dissatisfaction. BMW internally reacts to these little areas of weakness by emphasizing its own core values and positioning the G11 as the 'see-what-you-get and get-what-you-see' in its class (with very careful preparation of series production). The claim is that no customer will be disappointed with his or her newly acquired G11 (which to me is a matter of course).

It is well known in Munich that some designers reckon the S-Klasse interior is too cluttered and that the screens could have been better integrated than stacked together like a 1980s home cinema/hi fi unit.

As iDrive becomes more fluent and simpler. There will be less controls bar the obvious. Which allows for a more minimalist interior offering less distraction for the driver and future technology will allow complete point of centre.
This was the direction intended with the E65 but no one was prepared to deal with the complexity the iDrive 1.0 offered. We have now progressed to the stage where nearly everyone uses this technology day in and day out.

The BMW i3 and BMW i8 is a good example of this as we will see not only construction and engineering methods integrate into portfolio cars but also some aspects of design. Its all to separate BMW to maintain a specific appeal , look and feel in luxury.

 

[Keyonte]

I'm a little behind on the 7 series thread but gosh these BMW interiors put me to sleep, i know its a little to early to tell but it looks like its going to be the same general copy/paste routine from the X5 into the new 7 which isnt bad considering the new X5 has the best iteration of BMWs new display screen and overall dashboard design but you would think being a flagship and the W222's #1 competitor it would have more to offer, but then again its still got more time to change before the final design is finalized come around next year.

 

[Carmaker1]

I'm a little behind on the 7 series thread but gosh these BMW interiors put me to sleep, i know its a little to early to tell but it looks like its going to be the same general copy/paste routine from the X5 into the new 7 which isnt bad considering the new X5 has the best iteration of BMWs new display screen and overall dashboard design but you would think being a flagship and the W222's #1 competitor it would have more to offer, but then again its still got more time to change before the final design is finalized come around next year.

There is no time left honestly, as the basic design structure would've been frozen in late 2012/January 2013. The first prototypes that were fully evident of the full production exterior/body, appeared in public last November. With BMW, I've noticed that one starts seeing "non-mule" prototypes about a year after design approval and about 6 or so months following the design freeze.

I'm sure SCOTT27 would know more about this, as by June 2012 BMW was already showing some people a final exterior/interior proposal. From what it sounds like, that would've been a fiberglass mockup of the G12. Trim and materials of course can usually be changed until a certain period before the FEP phase, but the production interior design itself will remain as what was approved in 1:1 scale in 2012. I do not work for BMW of course, but I can only base this on my experience and prior knowledge.

Your W222 was still in the materials stage in October 2010, judging by a leaked design studio photograph. The interior itself was designed 4 years ago in 2009 and only had a few later changes made to it, which included the new horizontal slats for the HVAC vents. One can notice in the W222 documentary how some 2009-10 footage showed the original interior with retro MB vents, that were reminiscent of the SL, SLK, and etc. Only minor production parts like that can be changed after the initial freeze, not hard points like the entire dash or center console.

 

[Keyonte]

There is no time left honestly, as the basic design structure would've been frozen in late 2012/January 2013. The first prototypes that were fully evident of the full production exterior/body, appeared in public last November. With BMW, I've noticed that one starts seeing "non-mule" prototypes about a year after design approval and about 6 or so months following the design freeze.

I'm sure SCOTT27 would know more about this, as by June 2012 BMW was already showing some people a final exterior/interior proposal. From what it sounds like, that would've been a fiberglass mockup of the G12. Trim and materials of course can usually be changed until a certain period before the FEP phase, but the production interior design itself will remain as what was approved in 1:1 scale in 2012. I do not work for BMW of course, but I can only base this on my experience and prior knowledge.

Your W222 was still in the materials stage in October 2010, judging by a leaked design studio photograph. The interior itself was designed 4 years ago in 2009 and only had a few later changes made to it, which included the new horizontal slats for the HVAC vents. One can notice in the W222 documentary how some 2009-10 footage showed the original interior with retro MB vents, that were reminiscent of the SL, SLK, and etc. Only minor production parts like that can be changed after the initial freeze, not hard points like the entire dash or center console.

Now that you say that you're right, i forgot about the freezing phase of the design so that may unfortunately be the final thing, hopefully they'll impression with high end materials and attention to detail, though i'm sure it won't trump the S class

 

[Busty]

The timeframe @Carmaker1 proposes is pretty correct, design freeze was even a little earlier. So, no doubt, design is finalized and will not be changed anymore (even though the 'small changes' referred to can sometimes have a huge effect. I remember the final pre-launch phases of the first gen-X5 and the current Bentley Mulsanne. In the former, the shape of the indicator glass was changed very late so that even first press shots showed the original one. In the latter the chrome frame around the side windows was finally made up of less separate pieces and the front fender was decided to be formed out of a single sheet of aluminum which is really sophisticated. All these measures are small ones but had a noticeable effect on the final result).

Anyway, even 'late' prototypes can deliberately be equipped with old parts (which includes the dash) depending on what is tested. BMW is not as strict as the VAG where pretty much nothing new is tested in public but even many (low- to mid-level) developers do not know much more than the specific part they're working on .... More concretely: a team can develop or implement iDrive specifications 24/7 and still don't know how the corresponding screen will look except for its size.

 

[bmwownage]

Given the i8, i doubt the interior will be too disappointing? I mean, it has always been the case that BMW interiors "looks" more uninteresting, less dramatic than the comparable Merc, the only apparent change occured with the Bangle era cars when everything from BMW suddenly turned everything around, but now it's back to refining, modenising. What's important is quality (of materials and build). Evident with the F30 for example, that interior has reasonable materials but the build quality, the way it's put together is really a notch down, too many separate blocks put together creating all these gaps and spaces. With the 7er, having a subtle interior with nothing too futuristic or dramatic is expected and i don't see an issue with that, i just hope it won't let down in terms of quality.

 

[klier]

Now that you say that you're right, i forgot about the freezing phase of the design so that may unfortunately be the final thing, hopefully they'll impression with high end materials and attention to detail, though i'm sure it won't trump the S class

It will, in every possible way.

MB cars look high end in pictures, but that's about it. In real life, you'll find out it's just a shiny layer of bling. Hollow, plastic and fake. Not hard to trump that (not to mention the design language. The S class screen inplementation screams "1st try on something new").

 

[klier]

Ja Mick, dat komt hard aan ik weet het.

It's not even a question or thought, BMW has design and tech in it's pocket.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Klier, rijd nou eens gewoon een paar weken in een S-Klasse (of een C voor mijn part). Dan weet je ten minste waar je over praat. Het is gewoon onzin, wat je daar geschreven hebt; los van fanboy-ism.

 

[klier]

Haha

No, it's no nonsense. It's a layer of bling put over a perfectly normal interior. BMW will not go this route.
And I don't like the way Benzes drive. Maybe when I am old

Different stokes for different folks. It's highly annoying to read all these MB fanboy comments in the BMW 7er thread. Talk about insecurity.

 

[SCOTT27]

Ja Mick, dat komt hard aan ik weet het.

It's not even a question or thought, BMW has design and tech in it's pocket.

No matter what generation the 7er has always had exceptional quality throughout. its materials are of good quality , its leather supple and switchgear extensively damped. The new car will be the same but the actual dash will be more flatter than the previous model as per current BMW interior philosophy providing space through minimalism.

What the 7er will shout about is its introduction to the Carbon Age for the luxury market. BMW will shout and shout loud about its advantage , its philosophy, its weight. Of course we can count this for innovation also and the G11 is an innovative luxury sedan entirely new from the ground up. The advantage here is Mercedes are saying the next S-Klasse will use more Carbon etc that will be nearer 2020. The 7er arrives in under a year.

It remains to be seen whether the 7er remains the flagship as BMW think if a 9er or Rolls-Royce pulled up alongside a 7er there would be a huge difference compared to the S-Klasse pulling up along side a Pullman or Maybach because it is the same car with only a longer wheelbase when compared to the previous Maybach against the previous S-Klasse. There was a noticeable difference.

Mercedes-Benz do not only have to contend with BMW but also its luxury brand Rolls-Royce.
The early schematics and strategy for the next Phantom will give rival engineers nightmares. Its the i8 taken up a few notches in terms of lightweight engineering. The pinnacle being its trick engine that will be able to "dim" cylinder power to wherever locale it is. It will be the worlds most advanced luxury car. Every inch a monster but a lightweight monster.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

No matter what generation the 7er has always had exceptional quality throughout. its materials are of good quality , its leather supple and switchgear extensively damped. The new car will be the same but the actual dash will be more flatter than the previous model as per current BMW interior philosophy providing space through minimalism.

What the 7er will shout about is its introduction to the Carbon Age for the luxury market. BMW will shout and shout loud about its advantage , its philosophy, its weight. Of course we can count this for innovation also and the G11 is an innovative luxury sedan entirely new from the ground up. The advantage here is Mercedes are saying the next S-Klasse will use more Carbon etc that will be nearer 2020. The 7er arrives in under a year.

It remains to be seen whether the 7er remains the flagship as BMW think if a 9er or Rolls-Royce pulled up alongside a 7er there would be a huge difference compared to the S-Klasse pulling up along side a Pullman or Maybach because it is the same car with only a longer wheelbase when compared to the previous Maybach against the previous S-Klasse. There was a noticeable difference.

Mercedes-Benz do not only have to contend with BMW but also its luxury brand Rolls-Royce.
The early schematics and strategy for the next Phantom will give rival engineers nightmares. Its the i8 taken up a few notches in terms of lightweight engineering. The pinnacle being its trick engine that will be able to "dim" cylinder power to wherever locale it is. It will be the worlds most advanced luxury car. Every inch a monster but a lightweight monster.

Cylinder deactivation or 'dimming' isn't something new though. How will this be any different?

 

[MAJESTIC]

Haha

No, it's no nonsense. It's a layer of bling put over a perfectly normal interior. BMW will not go this route.
And I don't like the way Benzes drive. Maybe when I am old

Different stokes for different folks. It's highly annoying to read all these MB fanboy comments in the BMW 7er thread. Talk about insecurity.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Expressive design has certainly become a major, if not the major, selling point of an automobile. This is simply a product of the vast majority of cars being so competent in technological content. The rapid implementation of innovation in production vehicles is nothing short of mind-boggling.

Mercedes-Benz has adopted a design paradigm that can be described as "modernistic"-while interpreting a number of "classical" elements. Audis' signature is "minimalistic" and "precise". BMWs' Vision Future Luxury Concept is (to my eyes) an extremely effective exercise in the highlighting of "technical" design. An attractive fusion of razor-sharp and curvacious. A theme that will "date" well and remain "fresh".

Alas, I suspect that several of the elements that I find attractive on the VFL Concept (i.e. the very low hoodline/high front wheelarches with diminished upper arch/top of fender mass...and the enticing flank sculpturing) will not make it into the actual production vehicle. Or at least only in considerably diluted form. Evidence can be seen on the open door shots of the various G11/G12 prototypes. I do however remain confident that the VFLs' proportions will be apparent in the production G11. Especially the SWB versions should be quite the lookers.

 

[Keyonte]

It will, in every possible way.

MB cars look high end in pictures, but that's about it. In real life, you'll find out it's just a shiny layer of bling. Hollow, plastic and fake. Not hard to trump that (not to mention the design language. The S class screen inplementation screams "1st try on something new").

That could be said for the W221 but i test drove the W222 and the interior quality is immaculate and the materials feel and look classy, its a nice start for the next 7 model years

 

[SCOTT27]

Standard wheelbase model.

 

[Busty]

That could be said for the W221 but i test drove the W222 and the interior quality is immaculate and the materials feel and look classy, its a nice start for the next 7 model years

Sorry, but the exact opposite is the case. The W222 drives great but interior materials and finish (as well as exterior finish) are clearly below the W221 (I've posted my personal reservations earlier, most of which I have also heard uttered by others: vents, door panels/pockets, PV/PS controls, door openers, drop arms, seat consoles, some of the wood variants, and ceiling). At least in Europe, this point is explicitly criticized by some target groups (such us W221 owners who are underrepresented in the clientele up to now). That's why for the competition the A8 and in part the Panamera still serve as a reference in this area.

Post-hoc clarification: I'm only talking about the visual, tactile, and olfactory quality here. I'm well aware that the W221 was not perfect, especially in its beginnings. And the comment is hopefully also not understood as S bashing. I'm mostly referring to a clinic last year where this was one of the striking data points (normally, the successor should outscore the predecessor which it did not). There is no doubt that Daimler did that on purpose. They wanted to gain certain new customers, which they obviously do. But they don't gain (or hold) the 'sensory' nerds.

 

[Keyonte]

Sorry, but the exact opposite is the case. The W222 drives great but interior materials and finish (as well as exterior finish) are clearly below the W221 (I've posted my personal reservations earlier, most of which I have also heard uttered by others: vents, door panels/pockets, PV/PS controls, door openers, drop arms, seat consoles, some of the wood variants, and ceiling). At least in Europe, this point is explicitly criticized by some target groups (such us W221 owners who are underrepresented in the clientele up to now). That's why for the competition the A8 and in part the Panamera still serve as a reference in this area.

Post-hoc clarification: I'm only talking about the visual, tactile, and olfactory quality here. I'm well aware that the W221 was not perfect, especially in its beginnings. And the comment is hopefully also not understood as S bashing. I'm mostly referring to a clinic last year where this was one of the striking data points (normally, the successor should outscore the predecessor which it did not). There is no doubt that Daimler did that on purpose. They wanted to gain certain new customers, which they obviously do. But they don't gain (or hold) the 'sensory' nerds.

I disagree, but i can only respect your opinion. I love both the W221 and 222 interiors however its obvious that MB really stepped their game up in terms of detail and overall quality. Though the W221 had somewhat of a hollow interior in terms of outdated tech and lack of detail it was and is still one of my favorites because after 7 years it still looks refined, just as the new S class

 

[SCOTT27]

In other news the next 3er drops 100KG as does the X3.