Revuelto [Spy Shots] 2023 Lamborghini Aventador Successor

[Centurion]

Engine: 218kg
Dual Clutch Gearbox with built-in electric motor: 193kg

Insane amounts of weight for the Gearbox unit. Overall it's clear that Lamborghini is aiming to keep weight down. The battery is smaller than the one in the Regera and the electric motors are fairly light at 18kg each.

The car also appears to have better weight distribution than the SF90.

 

[Jo_Sta7]

I’m curious as to how much it weighs, in reality not press releases. Given the power figures it looks like performance should be right on par with the SF90s. It will sound better but I hope they let the V12 speak and not synthetically add emotion. I had an aventador Roadster S for about a month and I hated it. I found the sound to be awful. I really despised that every single damn time I lifted off the accelerator I got three synthetic pops from the exhaust.

I don’t have many picks of the old girl I wasn’t the biggest fan. I did like the looks though.

 

[Centurion]

I’m curious as to how much it weighs, in reality not press releases.

Gearbox in the Aventador weighs 79kg.

I think the successor will be roughly 150-200kg heavier.

 

[Bridster]

Hmm, 825PS and 725Nm, compared to the old engine where it made 785PS and 720Nm in the Sian. I really do wonder a bit how "completely new" this engine is. I am not sure that getting 40PS and 5Nm warrants developing a completely new engine from scratch. Seems more like a big update of the old engine. A new block probably since the engine is turned 180 degrees and has to have switched cam drive. Probably new heads too, but overall, from the pictures it looks very similar to the Aventador V12 and it's probably not very different inside. With peak power at 9250RPM, it should rev to about 9500RPM, which is not too shabby, but it's not quite the engine I was hoping for. Cosworth has shown what you can do if are given the opportunity to design a high revving V12 from scratch and this engine doesn't quite live up to that potential - probably because it's not actually a completely new design. 825PS is a bit disappointing I must say. It's even less than the 840PS of the now ancient Ferrari V12. Oh well, I guess we should be lucky we still get an NA V12.

A weight reduction is nice too, although I still predict the total weight of the car to be around 1900kg, if not a bit more. What helps is that the battery is relatively small. 3.8kWh, compared to the 7.9kWh of the SF90.

 

[Bridster]

One other thing, given that we know the electric motors weigh 18.5kg, each should be good for at least 100PS, maybe even 200PS. So 300PS on top of the 825PS of the engine. It shouldn't be a big problem for the battery to supply that. So we should be seeing more like 1125PS total output, but why do I keep hearing 1000-1050PS only? There is no way the electric motors only make 70PS with that weight, is there? And even if there was, wouldn't it make sense to have them be 50% heavier with 50% more power? That would only make the car heavier by 30kg, but it would gain 115PS.

It really might be the battery that's limiting the power. It's the same in the SF90. The 3 electric motors are capable of 470PS, but the battery can only supply 220PS. However, I expect that this limitation might get removed in the VS version. This car has a smaller battery than the SF90, but there is nothing really preventing them from using a battery that's power dense enough to supply 300PS or more. The upgraded battery in the P1 gets 3.6PS/kg and even if this battery only got 3PS/kg, it should still be enough to provide enough juice since it's 3 times bigger. Well, I guess we'll see soon.

 

[Centurion]

Hmm, 825PS and 725Nm, compared to the old engine where it made 785PS and 720Nm in the Sian. I really do wonder a bit how "completely new" this engine is. I am not sure that getting 40PS and 5Nm warrants developing a completely new engine from scratch. Seems more like a big update of the old engine. A new block probably since the engine is turned 180 degrees and has to have switched cam drive. Probably new heads too, but overall, from the pictures it looks very similar to the Aventador V12 and it's probably not very different inside. With peak power at 9250RPM, it should rev to about 9500RPM, which is not too shabby, but it's not quite the engine I was hoping for. Cosworth has shown what you can do if are given the opportunity to design a high revving V12 from scratch and this engine doesn't quite live up to that potential - probably because it's not actually a completely new design. 825PS is a bit disappointing I must say. It's even less than the 840PS of the now ancient Ferrari V12. Oh well, I guess we should be lucky we still get an NA V12.

A weight reduction is nice too, although I still predict the total weight of the car to be around 1900kg, if not a bit more. What helps is that the battery is relatively small. 3.8kWh, compared to the 7.9kWh of the SF90.

I did not expect the performance to be ground breaking. Lamborghini's focus over the past 10-15 years has been visual, viceral and aural drama. You rarely hear anyone talk about Lamborghini in the context of laptimes, record acceleration or benchmarks.

As an overall package, the car will stand alone as a hyper car:
-NA V12
-Loud but not unbearably so(AMG-One, T.50, Valkyrie)
-Rear integral active steering
-4 wheel drive with torque vectoring
-Gearbox that won't annoy the hell out of you at low speeds.
-Even if it's priced at 500,000EUR it will be a bargain compared with EUR 2-2.5m hypercars.

The new GranTurismo Cabrio is rumoured to be priced at around EUR200,000 and that's powered by a V6. Therefore in the grand scheme, the Aventador will be a good car as long as it's kept what people love about the Aventador but addressed weaknesses without introducing any cons.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

One other thing, given that we know the electric motors weigh 18.5kg, each should be good for at least 100PS, maybe even 200PS. So 300PS on top of the 825PS of the engine. It shouldn't be a big problem for the battery to supply that. So we should be seeing more like 1125PS total output, but why do I keep hearing 1000-1050PS only? There is no way the electric motors only make 70PS with that weight, is there? And even if there was, wouldn't it make sense to have them be 50% heavier with 50% more power? That would only make the car heavier by 30kg, but it would gain 115PS.

It really might be the battery that's limiting the power. It's the same in the SF90. The 3 electric motors are capable of 470PS, but the battery can only supply 220PS. However, I expect that this limitation might get removed in the VS version. This car has a smaller battery than the SF90, but there is nothing really preventing them from using a battery that's power dense enough to supply 300PS or more. The upgraded battery in the P1 gets 3.6PS/kg and even if this battery only got 3PS/kg, it should still be enough to provide enough juice since it's 3 times bigger. Well, I guess we'll see soon.

Fully agreed. I assume that Lambo is either leaving room for future upgrades/versions and/or the battery isn’t up to par (yet).

 

[Centurion]

Fully agreed. I assume that Lambo is either leaving room for future upgrades/versions and/or the battery isn’t up to par (yet).

I think this is the power of the "base" Aventador. S and SJV equivalents are inevitable and so are ultra limited reskinned variants with more power.

Overtime battery energy density will improve and there's is likely room for bigger and more powerful batteries on the front axle.

 

[Bridster]

I did not expect the performance to be ground breaking. Lamborghini's focus over the past 10-15 years has been visual, viceral and aural drama. You rarely hear anyone talk about Lamborghini in the context of laptimes, record acceleration or benchmarks.

As an overall package, the car will stand alone as a hyper car:
-NA V12
-Loud but not unbearably so(AMG-One, T.50, Valkyrie)
-Rear integral active steering
-4 wheel drive with torque vectoring
-Gearbox that won't annoy the hell out of you at low speeds.
-Even if it's priced at 500,000EUR it will be a bargain compared with EUR 2-2.5m hypercars.

The new GranTurismo Cabrio is rumoured to be priced at around EUR200,000 and that's powered by a V6. Therefore in the grand scheme, the Aventador will be a good car as long as it's kept what people love about the Aventador but addressed weaknesses without introducing any cons.

Yeah, that's been the case for the last ten years, but this is the chance for Lamborghini to return to the performance forefront where they were when the Aventador got released - which was one of the fastest cars in straight line and on track. Would be a shame if they completely gave up on that and grew comfortable in the role of a boulevard cruiser for show.

I don't know doubt it's gonna be priced much higher than the Aventador, probably at least on the level of the SF90, if not higher.

Gearbox in the Aventador weighs 79kg.

Indeed, although it's not apples to apples comparison. The new gearbox includes the differential (which might be 20-30kg) and also the 18.5kg electric motor. Even so, that would still make it 60-70kg heavier. We know that DCTs are heavier, but surely not by that much, especially the modern ones. So what's going on? My guess is that it's the mix of some of the following:

- needs to handle more torque
- the car is heavier so the peak load is higher in 1st/2nd gear, so needs to be made stronger
- uses big, multi-plate wet clutches for rock solid reliability
- needs to use an additional bevel gear for torque direction change since it's a transverse box
- it's a completely new design, so maybe they were a bit conservative and chose to play it safe

Either way, damn, 193kg, what a fatty! The DCT in the Chiron - which needs to handle 1600Nm - is only 124kg (athough, again, doesn't include the diff or the electric motor).

 

[A.P.]

Is the DCT weight with or without the e-motor included? (1 e-motor was integrated into DCT?) Confusing a little there.

Also that Toyota hybrid inspiration is clear, the inner battery starting the engine, I mean. That can go both ways in terms of reliability.

Peak at 9250 rpm... That's all I needed to hear.

 

[Centurion]

Is the DCT weight with or without the e-motor included? (1 e-motor was integrated into DCT?) Confusing a little there.

Each electric motor weigh 18.5kg. You can deduct that from the gearbox weight. However, electrical components, extra large casing etc add weight.

 

[Bridster]

LAMBORGHINI LB744: NEW BENCHMARK FOR HYBRID SUPER SPORTS CARS

- 1015PS
- each e-motor makes 150PS, but battery limited to 190PS total
- pretty much confirming that the engine isn't "completely new", but instead "revised"
- 9500RPM confirmed

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[A.P.]

1001hp, reminds me of Veyron. So odd ~25hp more than SF90 Stradale and probably just enough to match the SF90 VS.

An interesting point about the transmission, Huracan replacement will use it as well, according to the press release. Debuts in late 2024 according to the CEO.

 

[Tourbillon]

1001hp, reminds me of Veyron. So odd ~25hp more than SF90 Stradale and probably just enough to match the SF90 VS.

An interesting point about the transmission, Huracan replacement will use it as well, according to the press release. Debuts in late 2024 according to the CEO.

The Ferrari SF90 Stradale "VS" is the upgraded standard production model. Although people will compare them the Lamborghini Revuelto or whatever it's called S or SVJ equivalent models will be the competitors.

Unfortunately rival manufacturers production lines never 100% line up, but it'll sure be interesting to see what they shape up like in comparison.

As for the transmission makes perfect sense and perhaps the engine, is related to this unit too? Perhaps.

 

[Bridster]

1001hp, reminds me of Veyron. So odd ~25hp more than SF90 Stradale and probably just enough to match the SF90 VS.

An interesting point about the transmission, Huracan replacement will use it as well, according to the press release. Debuts in late 2024 according to the CEO.

Veyron actually had 1001PS.

Yeah, it's interesting that the Huracan replacement will use it too (which makes it even weirder how heavy it is), but it's even more interesting that apparently Lamborghini have designed it in house. I can't remember the last time there was a gearbox designed by the car manufacturer themselves! Must have been a long time ago. Or maybe it's Lamborghini again being clever with their marketing (as when they called their upgraded Aventador V12 "completely new") and instead the gearbox is being designed by Graziano or whoever and Lamborghini only has input.

 

[Centurion]

Imagine the cost of replacing a damage gearbox unit. It must have 20-40 fault codes on its own.

“How the system functions depends on which driving mode is engaged, thanks to an uncoupling mechanism with a dedicated synchroniser allowing the connection to the double-clutch gearbox. When it is providing additional power to the V12 internal combustion engine, the electric motor is in P3 position, separated from the gearbox, while it moves into the P2 position to recharge the battery at low speeds and when parked, also serving a starter motor.

In the P3 position, the LB744 can become an electric four-wheel drive car, depending on the drive mode selected, continuing Lamborghini’s four-wheel drive tradition even with zero emissions.

Reverse gear is provided by the two front electric motors, although if extra momentum is needed the rear electric motor can also kick in, which activates the rear axle and wheels. As a result, the new LB744 can drive all four wheels in zero emission mode even when reversing in low grip conditions.”

 

[AndreB]

Looks like the front motors are axial-flux motors.

 

[LaArtist]

Sick engine set up. I’m surprised that it doesn’t have solid state batteries.

My next guess is that they will debut with the .2 turbo S 911

 

[Centurion]

Sick engine set up.

The highlight is the gearbox. It will make the Aventador with its single clutch manual feel like agricultural equipment.

Gear shifts will still be dramatic as seen in the Hurecan. The appeal of the car will significantly broaden as some people love the way the Aventador looks but wouldn’t own one because of the low speed performance of the gearbox and clunky gear changes when you are not driving bat shit crazy.

 

[Tourbillon]

The highlight is the gearbox. It will make the Aventador with its single clutch manual feel like agricultural equipment.

Gear shifts will still be dramatic as seen in the Hurecan. The appeal of the car will significantly broaden as some people love the way the Aventador looks but wouldn’t own one because of the low speed performance of the gearbox and clunky gear changes when you are not driving bat shit crazy.

Some of the Lamborghini guys I occasionally hang out with Love the ISR transmission and wouldn't have it any other way!

They're also some of them holding onto their cars!