Range Rover Range Rover (L405)

[Ultimate Car Guy]

Sorry, JLBM, I must have missed the factual point you made amongst that long-winded emote.

No agenda on my part, folks, other than as I said before, to highlight and expose those who peddle lies and set out to deceive. JLR uses an extremely sophisticated and comprehensive PR machine to hide the shortcomings of its moderate, overpriced products. A key part of this is the on-side British auto media hack cabal. If that comes across as negative, so be it.

On the other hand I am a great enthusiast for German auto products, the German auto industry and for German engineering prowess. That's what led me to the GermanCF in the first place. I am not a failed/wannabe auto scribbler - god forbid! - I am an engineer and work as a self-employed manufacturing consultant, concentrating on the auto industry in UK/Germany and the supply chain.

Awesome!

I love having industry specialists within this forum. I also am involved in the industry as a finance consultant.

We also have some respectable engineers in the forum such as Martinbo and Sunny.

 

[Kilcrohane]

The new R/Rover isn't even on-sale yet and Autocar are talking about the mid-life re-do!

Here's something actually happening, on the new motor front, and one that Autocar describes as a 'lump' - how typical!:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-cayenne-get-potent-v8-diesel

A wonderful engine development from Volkswagen group. 4.2 V8 diesel, 380 PS, 850 Nm, gets the new Porsche Cayenne S Diesel to 100 km/h in 5.7s, and returns 34 mpg(8.2l/100km), all comfortably ahead of the new R/Rover's carryover 4.4l V8 diesel, produced by Ford.

 

[martinbo]

Erm, I quite loved driving the XJ Supersport... I did about 240 clicks worth of time behind the wheel. Thought it was an excellent product that rode a little too sharply (secondary ride quality) but compensated with its engaging-to-drive demeanour and character-filled experience. Do I say it's superior as an overall product (as intended) to an S-Class? Heck no. I never at any stage however felt that the XJ was overpriced so one has to allow for the subjective nature of human preference.

So, whilst your dislike for JLR products is entirely your entitlement, I feel that your vehemency is a touch on the extreme side. This is purely an observation - not a criticism - from your first post I knew you were going to be controversial. You just have to accept that with such strong opinions you will elicit equally strong reactions from others. But you're a sharp cookie - you know this already. Look, the whole idea of participating in a car forum is to express one's passion, share knowledge and interact with common-interest individuals. That you're an German automotive product and industry enthusiast in general means that you've come to the right place.

I've done thousands of kms in various Land Rover products and yes - they have their quality issues. First hand interaction with professionals (I'm a spare-time driving instructor/hack) abounds with stories of Disco 3s being stranded in Namibia / Botswana due to electronic park brake failure or air suspension issues. I am even aware of an incident where suspected mechanical failure purportedly lead to the death of an experienced instructor - more than this I am unable to comment on.

Point is: for every one of those "incidents" there are many more instances of Land Rover customers being delighted with their Defender, Discovery, Range Rover ownership and lifestyle experiences and that's down here in a rather rugged part of the world.

Unbridled Brit-journo parochialism aside - the new Range Rover does exhibit several impressive characteristics: the perceived interior quality, the excellent front and rear ground clearance, the obvious monocoque rigidity and noteworthy axle articulation. Oh and subjectively I, like several others, like the way it looks too. The fact that the much-touted weight reduction isn't a great as was earlier reported is a disappointment for sure.

Awesome!

I love having industry specialists within this forum. I also am involved in the industry as a finance consultant.

We also have some respectable engineers in the forum such as Martinbo and Sunny.

Eish, UCG - sorry man but I'm not an engineer (Nor have I claimed to ever be)
I run an ERP-centric IT business down here in JHB. I have been a part-time driving instructor/presenter/product demonstrator since 2004. Just a bonafide car nut with a penchant for the mechanical aspect.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

My comment about reading between the lines was a joke. Clearly Kilcrohane has some kind of agenda against British car mags and JLR. I think he does have a point though reading his posts. I just think it's bizarre to the level which his vitriol extends!

He's very eloquent too.

 

[Kilcrohane]

Erm, I quite loved driving the XJ Supersport.

The XJ, let's not forget, is essentially a re-skin of the 2002-9, all-ally 'X350' XJ. As I said before, Tata's JLR has benefited greatly from Ford and BMW's earlier, major investments in Jaguar and Land Rover. The 2002 X350 was an advanced materials/lightweight structures test-bed project for Ford's Premier Automotive Group, on which alone Ford spent hundreds of millions of dollars. The new L405 Range Rover is essentially using the XJ floorpan - hence the increased bonnet length over the L322 and two wheelbase length offerings - and materials knowhow. The AJ133 V8 engine, derived from the 1997 AJ-V8, again owes a lot to Ford's major investment in Jaguar's then only third all-new engine, back in the late 90s. The XJ Supersport combines both to good effect. Likewise, the outgoing L322 Range Rover was regarded as the best Range Rover, due to the foundation of BMW's thorough and costly engineering of it, and Dr Reitzle, of then PAG and ex-BMW, seeing it through to completion under Ford's ownership.

My point is Tata was left with a decent legacy from Ford in early 2008, particularly the costly advanced materials/lightweight structures knowhow embedded within Jaguar. However, that legacy is about spent, and protestations by JLR and its media friends about 'new world-beating engines in three years'(see the Autocar article above) and suchlike, no longer cut the mustard. Re-dressing Freelanders to make Range Rovers, rebadging a Ford EcoBoost to make a 'new' Jaguar engine, chopping down an aged XK platform to make a credible E-type successor, constant chatter about but no reality of a Jaguar 3-series rival in a few years time, does not convince seasoned auto industry observers that JLR is doing anything more than exploiting the last dregs of Ford's 2008 legacy and putting a shine on the brass name plate before an attempt at a flotation of the company to recoup its $2bn outlay and make a handsome profit.

 

[martinbo]

The XJ, let's not forget, is essentially a re-skin of the 2002-9, all-ally 'X350' XJ.

Magnificent! I completely forgot that the X350 XJ was actually a nigh all-aluminium construction. Thanks.

rebadging a Ford EcoBoost to make a 'new' Jaguar engine...

Are you referring to the "new" 2.2 litre diesel from the PSA group or the V6 diesel?

 

[Kilcrohane]

Are you referring to the "new" 2.2 litre diesel from the PSA group or the V6 diesel?

- neither. The Ford EcoBoost - 2-litre, 4-cylinder, turbocharged, direct-injected petrol engine, made in Valencia, Spain, found in the 2013 Ford Escape, Fusion, and so on - already installed in the Range Rover Evoque, is now going into the Jaguar XF and XJ, for the 2013 MY, in longitudinal format for the first time, and thanks to a few minor changes, engine cover?, by Jaguar engineers, has been described as a "new Jaguar engine" by JLR, who call it the 'I4 Ti 240'. The '240' refers to the horsepower rating.

It's not a bad engine, the 2.0l Ford EcoBoost, but most would say it's not a match for say BMW's excellent 'N20' 4-cyl. petrol, or VAG's EA888, or the Mercedes-Benz M270/4, and it's a tad disingenuous of JLR/Jaguar trying to pass it off as either 'new' or a 'Jaguar' engine.

 

[martinbo]

Ah yes - of course. Too much J and not enough LR in my head in this discussion.

 

[martinbo]

Oh crap... in 5,4,3,2,1...

 

[HighestOfHigh]

2013 Land Rover Range Rover Priced from $83,500​

The new 2013 Range Rover SUV from Land Rover goes on sale this December priced from $83,500 including destination. This represents a small premium over the $79,425 sticker of the outgoing 2012 model, however, given the slew of upgrades offered it’s well worth the premium.

The 2013 Range Rover benefits from a brand new aluminum platform that sees the big SUV weigh in some 700 pounds less than the previous version, aiding both performance and fuel economy. There is also a load of technological upgrades including a new Terrain Response system, for those Range Rover buyers that actually plan to go off-road, and despite being lighter the new model is also bigger than the one it replaces.

The $83,500 starting price nets you a 5.0-liter V-8 rated at 375 horsepower and 375 pound-feet of torque. A supercharged version of this engine is also available, delivering 510 horsepower and 461 pound-feet of torque. Both engines are paired with a ZF eight-speed automatic.

The 0-60 times come in at an impressive 6.5 seconds and 5.1 seconds, respectively, while top speeds register at 130 mph and 140 mph. EPA-rated fuel economy figures are expected to be announced closer to launch.

A luxury-laden Range Rover Autobiography model will also be offered once again, with the starting price of this particular model coming in at a staggering $130,950.

Interestingly, Land Rover chose to show off its new Range Rover for the first time in the U.S. at a special presentation in the home of one of its top clients. The reveal was held at the 30,000 square-foot home on the former Frick estate in the prestigious Alpine suburb of New Jersey. It boasts five floors of 12 bedrooms, 19 bathrooms, an indoor basketball court, movie theatre, 11-car garage, 4000-bottle wine cellar and an elevator.

The new Range Rover now heads to the 2012 Paris Auto Show for its official world debut.

- http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1079152_2013-land-rover-range-rover-priced-from-83500

 

[Soup]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Heisenberg]

 

[Heisenberg]

The car configurator is live now

 

[JLBM]

G O R G E O U S

 

[Heisenberg]

 

[martinbo]

Stick to the topic Kilcrohane and take note of this forum's policy regarding discussion that is politically centric. Your attempted correlation between the present day socio-economic appropriateness of a luxo-barge SUV with the tragic loss of life at Lonmin is, firstly, as absurd as it is tenuous. Secondly, to use this event in some arbitrary context by which you can express your contempt for Southern Africans who simply happen to like a certain kind of car is frankly below the belt.

I'm disappointed that you would resort to such behaviour just to argue your case against what is merely an overpriced mode of transport.

 

[Soup]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/2...er-4-specification-revealed-exclusive-gallery

2013 Range Rover 4 specification revealed - exclusive gallery

 

[Merc1]

Truck looks good, wheels do not.


M

 

[Kilcrohane]

In stark contrast to the impression given here on GERMANcarforum by many contributors and the fawning by "Autocar" et al of a "Second Coming" vehicle, elsewhere it's getting a lukewarm reception at best:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/14/2013-range-rover-makes-u-s-debut-with-83-500-base-price/

A $3/4k price-hike for a powertrain carry-over, and $20k more than the torque-rich, turbocharged GL450 for instance.

Contrary to GCF's overwhelming opinion, a lot of people aren't falling for this "British", "premium" product, where higher and higher prices equates to uber status. They see a vastly overpriced SUV, that'll still weigh around 2,500 kgs, from a brand that is infamous for its unreliability, is in Indian ownership, and still relies on Ford's product legacy and production facilities.

I thought I came to GERMANcarforum, not an Autocar mirror site. If I want to read reproduced JLR PR releases. embellished by backside-licking hacks, I'll go to the original - Autocar. Even the readers of Autocar are seeing through the JLR/Autocar BS. See the comments on A/car's "exclusive" R/Rover spec. feature.

Sorry, I mistook GCF for a German car enthusiast site. My mistake.

 

[martinbo]

You can trace the origins of our community to way back (circa 2001) in the early days German Car Fans.com. Many of those original members are still here and our utmost appreciation of German automobiles being the best in the world is still strongly upheld here.

You are most welcome to pour scorn on a car you believe to be inferior, in this case the JLR group's new Range Rover, and justify why you believe a German counterpart to be superior. I for one am 100% supportive of this. It is after all GCF's raison d'être.

What is unacceptable however is to aim criticism / disparage members for their right to freedom of choice. C'mon, you're better than that...