Huayra Pagani Huayra Top Gear (Spoiler Alert)


The Pagani Huayra, a successor to the Pagani Zonda, was initially revealed online in a press release on 25 January 2011. It was officially revealed at the 2011 Geneva Motor Show. The car is named after the Quechua god of wind, Huayra-tata. The engine is a 6.0-litre twin-turbo M158 V12 engine from Mercedes-AMG producing 544 kW (740 PS; 730 hp) and 1,000 N⋅m (740 lb⋅ft) of torque. The Huayra's body is made from carbotanium; a lightweight composition of carbon fibre and titanium. The Huayra has been redesigned from the ground up, but shares many visual qualities with its predecessor. The car can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph (97 km/h) in 3.2 seconds and has a top speed of 235 mph (378 km/h). Only 100 units of the Huayra were produced, each costing £1,000,000 (1.05 million US$) without options.
As i always post anything that has to do with pagani.
I should be the one that posts anything negative as well.
This thread on TS which has caused a ripple amongst the car world online.

Its a fun read.. even Pagani Automobili and Top gear got involved in the end.

I hope it will be laid to rest now.

http://teamspeed.com/forums/supercars/78235-pagani-huayra-top-gear-spoiler-alert-6.html

Starts from page 5-6
 
Its a street legal tire that is order able by any customer.. and for me that's the end of it:)
 
Very interesting. I'm excited and hope the detectives will find out all the cheating at Porsche, Ferrari and McLaren with the new cars coming out at Geneva.

This makes me think we'll never see any true Ferrari F150 vs. McLaren P1 duel. Even F12 vs. Huayra was not allowed.
 
At least they were honest about it. Unlike someone we know ;)

I just read the whole thread, that Matt guy did brilliant work. I still don't think Pagani is being completely honest. Those tires are are definitely not Pirelli Trofeo tires either like Pagani is claiming. Trofeo tires have different tread pattern and more importantly use road tire size nomenclature, not race sizes as seen on the tires on the Pagani that lapped the Top Gear circuit. Neither do Trofeos have tire wear indicators pits like slicks do.

Here is what Trofeo looks like -


369ae8b951d01f9b485f661306558123.webp


And here is the Pirelli page that gives tire sizes - they use the normal street tire notaions.
http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/car/sheet-motorsport/pzero_trofeo.html
 
^read the last email i posted from pagani over there.

They said it was the Zonda R's tire modified to be road legal.

hence the nomenclature,size and wear indicator pits.
 
No guys, please let us not continue that debate on here. Who cares anyway? I yet have to see an honest business that has not gone bankrupt.
 
^Well i guess they are not street legal then..as those tires do not use the standard codes..

Is there no way a tire could be street legal without using those exact codes?
 
@Sunny,
I've also read the whole thread since it exploded yesterday. Very healthy and informative discussion over there by Matt and co. I was just saying Pagani at least admitted they weren't the standard tires and that they're modified version of the Zonda R's tires. They didn't just flat out deny it. Yes they tried to say they're a different type and that they're street legal , but it's been proven they're not. They just gotta come cleaner about them.

I was just wondering what they meant by "hand-cut" treads? Do they just take a box cutter to carve treads on these racing tires? That seems like a lot of work to do by hand.

I'm pretty sure the guys on Top Gear will talk about it. But how's the Stig gonna talk? :) He knows what went down More than anyone (& Pagani). Hopefully they do another lap with standard tires.
 
Maybe on standard tires the Pagani beaten the Ariel Atom V8 (?), but the difference was not enough "impressive" so they decided to put other tires and not to make the gap tooooo suspicious the Stig just lapped slower, what explains why Pagani said according to his measures the Huayra must have been 1.5-2.0 sec faster than the lap that was officially given. :ninja:
 
@Sunny,
I was just saying Pagani at least admitted they weren't the standard tires and that they're modified version of the Zonda R's tires. They didn't just flat out deny it. Yes they tried to say they're a different type and that they're street legal , but it's been proven they're not. They just gotta come cleaner about them.

I was just wondering what they meant by "hand-cut" treads? Do they just take a box cutter to carve treads on these racing tires? That seems like a lot of work to do by hand.

I'm pretty sure the guys on Top Gear will talk about it. But how's the Stig gonna talk? :) He knows what went down More than anyone (& Pagani). Hopefully they do another lap with standard tires.

Hey Yaz,
Yes, they did admit the tires weren't Pirelli Corsa tires like they explicitly claim in the press release (which was a flat out lie and is still up on their website - link). But it is not like they had much of a choice - there was clear photographic proof showing they were Zonda R slicks with treads cut into them. What is even more disappointing is that even when faced with overwhelming evidence, while they admitted the tires were not Corsas, they still decided to spin it as -
1. Being Pirelli Trofeos - which they clearly are not.
2. That they are street legal - which also looks highly unlikely seeing how they lack any load or speed ratings.

Yes, I too wish they would retest the car with standard tires, but then again what else can they rig - turn up the boost?
 
Wow, egg on face for Pagani. Their reputation goes down a notch in my book. And TopGear too. I know The Stig is supposed to be mute but c'mon.

^Well i guess they are not street legal then..as those tires do not use the standard codes..
Is there no way a tire could be street legal without using those exact codes?
Technically, they would not be legal. For road legal tires, manufacturers are expected to certify them with the various government agencies where they wish to sell them. Some examples of the process requirements:
"E.C.E. standards have been initiated that require tire "pass-by" noise meet specific limits. These standards began in 2004, when tires fitted as Original Equipment on new vehicles intended for sale in Europe must pass noise emission testing, and will continue to expand in scope until the standards will be applied to all tires sold in Europe.
This has required that some of the recent tires developed for Original Equipment use on cars and light trucks in Europe feature less aggressive looking tread designs than in the past. This trend isn't just a fashion trend among the European tire designers, it's a case where form follows function. The noise a tire generates as it rolls through the air and comes into contact with the road is associated to the aggressiveness of its tread design.
The E.C.E. symbol on a tire's sidewall identifies that the manufacturer certifies the tire meets all regulations, including the load index and speed symbol that appear in its service description. In order to be E.C.E. branded, tires must receive laboratory approval, pass confirmation testing and have their manufacturing plant pass quality control inspections."
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=15

"The DOT stands for the Department of Transportation, a government agency required to certify quality standards for vehicles. This DOT certification is branded on the sidewall of your tire, which certifies that it meets or surpasses the requirements of the DOT. The numbers/letters that follow the DOT mark represent the plant where the tire was manufactured, the size, pattern, brand, and the date of manufacture."
http://www.hankooktireusa.com/Serv/TireRegistration_DOTcertifi.aspx?pageNum=3&subNum=6

"To help consumers compare a passenger car tire's treadwear rate, traction performance, and temperature resistance, the federal government requires tire manufacturers to grade tires in these three areas. This grading system, known as the Uniform Tire Quality Grading System, provides guidelines for making relative comparisons when purchasing new tires.
Federal law requires tire manufacturers to place standardized information on the sidewall of all tires. This information identifies and describes the fundamental characteristics of the tire and also provides a tire identification number for safety standard certification and in case of a recall.
U.S. DOT Tire Identification NumberThis begins with the letters "DOT" and indicates that the tire meets all federal standards. The next two numbers or letters are the plant code where it was manufactured, and the last four numbers represent the week and year the tire was built. For example, the numbers 3197 means the 31st week of 1997. The other numbers are marketing codes used at the manufacturer's discretion. This information is used to contact consumers if a tire defect requires a recall."
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/tiresafety/ridesonit/brochure.html

Basically, if a tire has not been tested by the manufacturer and certified with government agencies, it's not street legal. The requirements in load, heat, noise, etc, is very different for a race tire that might last only 1 hour on a light vehicle with 1 driver, no passengers, no luggage. As we witnessed with the Ford-Firestone fiasco, no smart manufacturer would want to risk the safety of its customers (and its reputation). Simply taking a racing tire, which has not been tested for those load and durability parameters, and cutting grooves in it doesn't suddenly make it a roadworthy tire, and a company would be successfully sued if any failures resulted. Hell, they can be sued for tires that are certified for road use. A failed racing tire modified for road use could be gross negligence.
Let's put it this way: You could put a big enough muffler and catalytic converter onto a race engine, such that a policeman wouldn't think twice. You might even pass a sniffer emissions test. But it wouldn't technically be street legal. An emissions (or stock-class racing) inspector looking into the engine bay would know what's up: You're trying to cheat.

The issue with regard to the Huayra is: Is that truly representative of what a customer car is capable of in fully street legal trim? The answer appears to be "No."


As for the "hand cut" aspect, I doubt these were done by hand. All of these manufacturers have access to CNC mills or lathes. These are often used for tire prototyping, so plugging in some known parameters for another tire and feeding it into a mounted slick should be easy. What it basically means is that it is not mass-produced via injection molding machines like other tires on an assembly line. (And with injection-molding, you get the requisite government-sanctioned certification codes, which is part of Pagani's undoing here. ;))
 
^thats a real good post:)

Thnx for posting that..

I guess they are not road legal..i expect pagani to release a proper statement..along with possibly a re-test.

I dont think HP will let this one slip without correcting it..

Meanwhile enjoy the Sound System thread:D
 
Continued from the P1 thread...

^ You see i see it as a business..people spin bs..and gain any kind of advantage they can to get their product sold.
i refuse to believe that Pagani pioneered this.
Whether Pagani pioneered this is not really the point. That they got caught is most definitely a huge point. They might not be the first but I have never seen any other manufacturer not only run a shaved racing slick, but also give such a misleading response as to which tire (they claim) was actually used, which is so easily refuted. Technically, it is kind of pioneering. ;)
Your point about gaining "any kind of advantage they can to get their product sold" has some resonance: Did they really need a crushing lap time to sell their product? My guess is that based on its many other virtues, and Pagani's already very low volume manufacturing, they did not. Lap times are a nice bragging right to have, but I think most customers are not so superficial as to give it the kind of weight that, say, some internet enthusiasts (like us) give to it. To some extent, those of us who put so much emphasis on metrics, plus the magazines that feed off of this, are complicit in this obsession for ultimately useless, and sometimes dishonest (on part of manufacturers), measure of a car. This is not to say that performance metrics are totally meaningless; many of us, myself included, come here to have spirited debate on the basis of them. Nothing wrong with that, so long as we can keep the figures in perspective with respect to context: The absolute 10/10ths figures we see in mags are merely the objective measurement of what we (or, rather, customers) feel. It quantifies it, but does almost nothing to give a qualitative assessment.
If indeed there is any measurable negative impact on Pagani's sales, then perhaps Horacio could do better by adjusting prices to meet demand. Or alter the characteristics of the car to make it more desirable. Absolute last thing IMO should be cheating. Horacio has built his legacy on delivering an experience, not just a fast product.
 
^I agree..that it might not sell more cars..
But in a way it does.
As it gives more publicity..and it becomes the I WANT THAT car for the normal people.
And believe me some people who have the money to buy these things care how sought after and wanted it is by the general public..
So yeah its publicity..

Im still hoping and waiting for Pagani to fix this, send the car over there again with normal tires and see what it can do.
I still think its as fast as the Ariel Atom.

Lets wait and see.

This thing came up during the preparations of Geneva, Pagani automobili is not a huge machine..they are stretched pretty thin during days like these.

So perhaps a reaction is to wait when things go back to normal.

Or maybe they will do it the Italian way..and just don't give a fug :D
 

Pagani

Pagani Automobili S.p.A. is an Italian manufacturer of hypercars and carbon fiber components. The company was founded in 1992 by Horacio Pagani and is headquartered in San Cesario sul Panaro, near Modena, Italy.
Official website: Pagani

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