8 Series OPINION: The new BMW 8 Series - Is it "Special" Enough?

[Matski]

I want to see if the M8 will really have a transaxle drivetrain, because Jens said that before the start of Daytona earlier this year...

LM GTE regs state that gearbox location does not have to match series production. The M8 GTE has a transaxle, the M8 road car does not have to in order for this to be legal, so I very much doubt it will.

 

[Matski]

Transaxle or not transaxle, this is the question. If eventually it turns out to be so, then the moderators should just have to close this threat with the clear answer "yes it is"

If they went all the way down the route the race car did it would be phenomenal. If the engine was mounted further back and bolted to the car in a way that made it structural enough to do away with conventional CLAR sections in front of the firewall... it would be mental.... but they won't... they'll just take one V8 out, and put a slightly different one in... like I say, I'd be stunned if it were a 4 litre flat plane crank engine as with the race car... but that's at least somewhat feasible - rebuilding the front end really isn't, IMHO.

 

[M.N.D]

Transaxle or not transaxle, this is the question. If eventually it turns out to be so, then the moderators should just have to close this threat with the clear answer "yes it is"

I see that the debate around the 8 series in this thread is more from the point of a luxury, market perspective and how it looks and compared to the rest of the large coupe cars. I don't know how many people will pay attention to that technical difference if it turns out to be correct.

If it turns out to be correct, I agree with you that the car will be special enough, and I think it's a major advantage point for M division to differentiate their cars from the standard ones.

LM GTE regs state that gearbox location does not have to match series production. The M8 GTE has a transaxle, the M8 road car does not have to in order for this to be legal, so I very much doubt it will.

Yes, that is correct. I know that in LM GTE it's possible to relocate the transmission and the engine with relation to the axle it's positioned on, as the M8 GTE is a front mid engine.

However, I remember that Jens was talking about the road going M8 regarding the transaxle drivetrain, so it's either going to be true, where I have some doubts like you as well, or it was some marketing exercise of spinning words and my understanding was wrong...

 

[dalab]

Transaxle or not transaxle, this is the question. If eventually it turns out to be so, then the moderators should just have to close this threat with the clear answer "yes it is"

Of course, and I answered exactly that on page 5

 

[Matski]

However, I remember that Jens was talking about the road going M8 regarding the transaxle drivetrain, so it's either going to be true, where I have some doubts like you as well, or it was some marketing exercise of spinning words and my understanding was wrong...

Well, the original quote was in an interview, rather than a press-release, so he could just have misspoke. Time will tell.

“The chassis for the M8 road version is built in the same line as the GTE cars, and the engine location and transaxle concept are exactly the same in both cars,” says Marquardt.

 

[dalab]

I get what you're saying, and track to road evolution ticks the boxes for me in terms of "special-ness", and there aren't many cars that achieve that in this price range. Cars like the SCG003 and Ford GT are much better examples, but they are of course much more expensive. If the M8 GTE helps you think of the 8-er as being more special fine, I'm not g...

Totally agree, I think that the subject of the specialty in things or in people in all senses is a subject that goes through several aspects but above all is a matter of perception and how each one perceives in this case a car.
If I stop at a traffic light today in a 850 CSI knowing that it would give embarrassment on a track, because never ran in one or had a racing counterpart and that accelerating from 0 to 100 never beat anyone, I would also perceive it as special, because they were other aspects that led him to that status, in the particular case of the original 8 was a BMW upmarket and people always like that, also it seems to me that the V12 at that moment of time was key and the design that what we consider a classic was decisive.

In the case of the M850i, I agree with the fact that there is an 8 GTE as a special detail, and in those things is the perception of each one, the times changed a lot and for example today despite having available a V12 of 600 hp of the M760i does not use it because it will be against the handling. BMW must find other means to improve that perception of specialty to please an increasingly demanding public, very influenced by social networks like this forum, which did not exist when the original was launched and I can not explain why, but when I saw it For the first time, I did not have to wonder if it was special enough or not, I knew immediately as with this new M850i It all comes down to a topic of perception.

And I still do not know why we are discussing here a question that nobody had asked.

 

[manuelf]

Well, the original quote was in an interview, rather than a press-release, so he could just have misspoke. Time will tell.

That would be weird, wouldn't it? Marquardt is fluent in english and has a solid technical knowledge... can't really think of a "misspoke"? Or the journalist was incorrectly noting down?

Why I hope for it and see some hope:
The M8 in its variants (vanilla, competition, cs, csl?) will be put against AMG GT up to GT-R! It is too tempting for motor-journalists...
We all know AMG GTs potential and GT-Rs impressive track times...
My gut-feeling: Without those layout changes and balance tuning, the M8 would have severe problems against an AMG GT, despite its higher power output.

 

[Sunny]

@SKY, excellent and valid points. Let me break down my response -

[@Sunny your thoughts to me indicate you have just tasted something more extreme than what BMW has to offer, and you simply would not go back to the previous recipe. Maybe I am ready too much into it. Since you drive two driver focused Porsches, what a 100k 8er offers might fall short to you. And probably to many others who would expect a 100k BMW to offer a similar experience to that of the M cars of the 90s, with elevated to an even higher level.

For the bulk of my driving, believe it or not, I actually enjoy the E36 M3 (that too the neutered US version) over the 2 100k Porsches. Doesn't that say a lot how much BMW got their previous recipe right? Given that, to me it logically follows the most surefire way for BMW to successfully market a 100k car is to take that recipe and turn it to a 11.

BMW would probably answer that the market has changed and it has to cover so many different areas to reach to the clients of your likes.

Yes, I will openly admit, I have the luxury of looking at it through selfish eyes of an enthusiast without worrying about the balance sheet. But then again, IMHO, abandoning the core values that made you great in the first place and chasing market share is sure fire way to lose it all.[/USER]

 

[M.N.D]

Well, the original quote was in an interview, rather than a press-release, so he could just have misspoke. Time will tell.

“The chassis for the M8 road version is built in the same line as the GTE cars, and the engine location and transaxle concept are exactly the same in both cars,” says Marquardt.

That is what I was remember as well. Thanks for quoting his statement although it's a personal statement rather than an official press release, it is coming from a director in the company itself. I can understand, however, that Marquardt's position is related to manage BMW's motorsport program, and he isn't related to the development of the road cars. Maybe I should take his quote with a grain of salt, but for sure, time will tell...

That would be weird, wouldn't it? Marquardt is fluent in english and has a solid technical knowledge... can't really think of a "misspoke"? Or the journalist was incorrectly noting down?

There is a possibility that it's a misconception or a misunderstanding, either from Maquardt or from the interviewer. From an economy or a business case point of view, it doesn't make sense to do significant modification to the chassis, unless the CLAR platform has the flexibility to allow such modifications to the whole package without increasing the development costs too much. I don't have enough knowledge or information to back this claim, so it's just an opinion.

Although it's just some wishful thinking, I hope that this turns out to be true, and the same concept will be unique to M cars and can be transitioned to other models in the future, at least for the next M4 and M2.

Anyway, regarding the original topic of this thread...

Personally, I don't care that much about large coupes, as I'm not a customer, and I like smaller cars more. BMW is almost my favourite car brand, but if I want to own a modern Bimmer coupe I would choose the 4 series even if it's less luxurious, flashy and refined.

I haven't seen the new 8 series in real life yet, so all I can care about is if I'll like it when I'll see it. I can assume that the wide-and-low stance along with the lines will grab my attention, but this usually happens with other cars as well, especially the large cars with the same stance (low and wide), but will I like the car after seeing it over and over? Compared to the outgoing 6 series coupe, I prefer and still like the looks of the 4 series. So, I can't answer the question of this thread for myself until I see the 8 series for some time.

From a technical point of view which is another special perspective, I can understand that some people are looking for something special, unique, and not shared with the rest of the lineup, whether it's a dedicated chassis or an exclusive drivetrain. Then again, I'm not a customer, so it's doesn't make much of a difference if I care or not.

What I really care about is how the racing versions perform in GT championships

In the end, customers who like a certain product will find the means to justify their choice, while people who don't like that product will find the means to disregard it.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

And your point is?

Some people are debating whether the 8er is special or not, and that is not the question. It's whether it's special ENOUGH. The question already implies the car is special.

I think it's a special car, but not special enough for the selling price.

 

[AndreB]

Saw the orange 840 today in Berlin showroom.

Looks nice and it's as special as the previous 6 series when it was launched, so I don't understand why this "8" is 20% more expensive.

The dash is nice but door panels look plain and boring and transmission tunnel is covered with a big piece of plastic.

Oh and only kids can fit in the back, like in the 911 but the 8 series looks big from outside.

I would get the M5 without blinking.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Interesting thread, with a question that probably never would have been asked if the car at hand was a S coupe or a 911.
Aside from that, of course it’s special. BMW marketing guys however made a not so clever move, calling it 8er and artificially upgrading car and price.
Allthough the standard equipement (in Germany) is rather good, BMW went a bit over the top with it’s pricing (25% plus 640d vs 840d). For me a 10% price increase would have been acceptable and fitting the offer. Bottom line is, BMW should have let the car, the product, speak for itself. An introduction with a bit less marketing bs I would have applauded. Because one thing I’m sure of; it’s a very fine, true gran turismo with sporty ambitions.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I

Interesting thread, with a question that probably never would have been asked if the car at hand was a S coupe or a 911.
Aside from that, of course it’s special. BMW marketing guys however made a not so clever move, calling it 8er and artificially upgrading car and price.
Allthough the standard equipement (in Germany) is rather good, BMW went a...

I can only imagine how much better would be the world if there were no marketing people. Then every good would sell only on its real capabilities and that would tremendously improve their quality.

 

[sako97]

Maybe the thread title should altered to “The New 8 Series - Is It ‘Special Enough To Merit It’s Price’?”

Reason being that it seems like in the 8er threads people are taking this discussion out of context and adamantly claiming it is special, based purely on looks. There are many cars on the market now that look great but don’t sell.

It’s a matter of looks, performance, and value for money leading to us hypothesizing whether or not it’ll fair better sales-wise than it’s predecessors, the E31 and the F12/3.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I've nowhere read that BMW plans to sell The 8 in bigger numbers than the F12/3. They for sure know what there customer base is and how much cars at a certain price they can sell. I believe it will be successful if the political situation remains stable. Eventual duties for European cars in the USA would put the whole project in risk.

 

[sako97]

I've nowhere read that BMW plans to sell The 8 in bigger numbers than the F12/3. They for sure know what there customer base is and how much cars at a certain price they can sell. I believe it will be successful if the political situation remains stable. Eventual duties for European cars in the USA would put the whole project in risk.

Erm, if what you state was the case no car would be unsuccessful.

As with any product you can forecast to the ends of the earth, but it’ll never be 100% accurate - it either meets general expectations or it doesn’t. Marketing and forecasting, though paramount to business operations has it’s limits.

Dealerships will give sales and consumer interest feedback to respective market authorities (e.g BMWUSA) and they will advise regarding any pricing adjustments, if needed.

Good thing sales figures are always readily available online for future reference.

 

[SCOTT27]

Depreciation happens to everybody...And I mean EVERYBODY

 

[braaf]

Some people are debating whether the 8er is special or not, and that is not the question. It's whether it's special ENOUGH. The question already implies the car is special.

I think it's a special car, But not special enough for the selling price.

No argument there at all and for me i myself can't decide wether it warrants that price point. but the same can be said for alot of vehicles north of $ 100 000.

I was merely pointing out that the way something looks does not justify it being special.

 

[braaf]

Saw the orange 840 today in Berlin showroom.

Looks nice and it's as special as the previous 6 series when it was launched, so I don't understand why this "8" is 20% more expensive.

The dash is nice but door panels look plain and boring and transmission tunnel is covered with a big piece of plastic.

Oh and only kids can fit in the back, like in the 91...

This is the door card of the most special car on the planet. As you can see it's a big ass piece of leather covered plastic or cardboard not really sure. But it's pretty simple but at the same time amazing because it's a Rolls Royce.

My point is the way something looks does not justify being special or special enough in this case. Those same materials you will find in a Mercedes, Porsche and a Rolls Royce.

Also it's 20% more expensive because BMW want it to be 20% more expensive.

 

[AndreB]

^That RR door panel looks boring but feels expensive, attention to details is from a different world.

Don't get me wrong I like the 8 Series, even more than my AMG GT, but only if it was cheaper. Every car has a unique selling proposition, the GT has transaxle, excellent weight distribution, it's built with the race car in mind.

I'm just missing the point of a 115k 840d. You could have a slightly used fully equipped M5 for that money.