1 Series [Official] The BMW M135i

[Betty Swollocks]

I know sometimes shots are filmed in a different order and just because we see the shot of the dashboard just before he spins out, it doesn't necessarily mean that shot was ACTUALLY filmed at the same time. BUT, the key thing is, "Sport+" is enabled which means the stability control HAS to be off by default, and therefore there WOULD be a light displaying this. The fact that somebody has gone in afterwards and edited the yellow stability light from the footage, and the presenters then failed to make it clear the traction control was off, is a deliberate manipulation of the viewers and possibly defamatory.

 

[martinbo]

May I impart my understanding of Sport+, Dynamic Traction Control and Dynamic Stability Control?

Even if the gearbox is in Sport+ mode, whilst the Dynamic Traction Control mode is now active (yellow skiddy light illuminated on dashboard) the overall DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) system is still active. This means that the traction and stability management systems allow a greater deal of wheel slip - for sportier driving or scenarios where a premature braking of a spinning wheel is undesirable - without complete and total deactivation of the stability control. To do this, the driver has to press and hold the DTC button down for 5 seconds in order to completely disable stability control (DSC) - now you're really on your own.

With DTC mode active you can spin the wheels up and the car will even begin to oversteer somewhat - especially in the wet - but ultimately the DSC will step in and reign things in.

• Normal, full fat safety mode: DTC button unpressed - default mode
• Dynamic Traction mode, still safe mode: DTC button pressed once - driver selected mode
• DSC OFF, danger mode: DTC button pressed and held for 5 seconds - driver selected mode

With Sport+ engaged this is effectively the same as point two above.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

May I impart my understanding of Sport+, Dynamic Traction Control and Dynamic Stability Control?

Even if the gearbox is in Sport+ mode, whilst the Dynamic Traction Control is active (yellow skiddy light illuminated on dashboard) the DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) is still active. This means that the traction and stability management systems allow a greater deal of wheel slip - for sportier driving or scenarios where a premature braking of a spinning wheel is undesirable - without complete and total deactivation of the stability control. To do this, the driver has to press and hold the DTC button down for 5 seconds in order to completely disable stability control - now you're really on your own.

With DTC mode active you can spin the wheels up and the car will even begin to oversteer somewhat - especially in the wet - but ultimately the DSC will step in and reign things in.

• Normal, full fat safety mode: DTC button unpressed - default mode
• Dynamic Traction mode, still safe mode: DTC button pressed once - driver selected mode
• DSC OFF, danger mode: DTC button pressed and held for 5 seconds - driver selected mode

With Sport+ engaged this is effectively the same as point two above.

Yes your understanding is correct, Martin. But I would hardly call the "intermediate" mode "safe".

And the point is they tried to deliberately deceive the viewers by editing out the yellow light. Why bother going to the trouble of doing that for that particular shot just before he spun off, if it wasn't to hide the fact that he didn't have the full electronic systems helping him?

 

[klier]

Funny stuff. Would have been classic if the other car was actually Britsh

I kid! Nicely spotted Betty!!

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Here is how it is worded in the 1 Series owner's manual.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I test drove an M135i a few weeks ago, in Valencia Orange as it happens, and with the DTC enabled you certainly couldn't get the car to perform the slides JC was doing in the programme. The only way to do that would be to fully disabled the DSC.

 

[martinbo]

Yes your understanding is correct, Martin. But I would hardly call the "intermediate" mode "safe".

And the point is they tried to deliberately deceive the viewers by editing out the yellow light. Why bother going to the trouble of doing that for that particular shot just before he spun off, if it wasn't to hide the fact that he didn't have the full electronic systems helping him?

I can't comment on whether and why the BBC edited out the DTC light - it's odd to me too - but what I will assert is that the outcome, even with DSC fully active would've likely been the same.
The wheels aquaplaned at high speed sending the car into a moderate spin; no amount of DSC thunky-dunk is going to save your arse in that situation - like I've said before... in a game of automotive Supertrumps, Sir Isaac Newton always trumps Thomas Edison.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I can't comment on whether and why the BBC edited out the DTC light - it's odd to me too - but what I will assert is that the outcome, even with DSC fully active would've likely been the same.
The wheels aquaplaned at high speed sending the car into a moderate spin; no amount of DSC thunky-dunk is going to save your arse in that situation - like I've said before... in a game of automotive Supertrumps, Sir Isaac Newton always trumps Thomas Edison.

Maybe so, and the segment was clearly filmed in two distinctly different weather conditions, with one part in glorious sunshine. No doubt they did lots of burn outs and drifts in the dry leaving the rear wheels with a lack of tread. But why not just say that instead of then making the piece about the 1 Series being "dangerous"? Why go to the trouble of editing out the fact that he didn't have the full systems available? If you'd seen the full segment he really made a big deal of the 1 Series being a deathtrap. If I was BMW I would be seriously annoyed and would definitely consider legal action.

 

[DblPen]

I can't comment on whether and why the BBC edited out the DTC light - it's odd to me too - but what I will assert is that the outcome, even with DSC fully active would've likely been the same.
The wheels aquaplaned at high speed sending the car into a moderate spin; no amount of DSC thunky-dunk is going to save your arse in that situation - like I've said before... in a game of automotive Supertrumps, Sir Isaac Newton always trumps Thomas Edison.

Why didnt golf aquaplaned? Do 4wd even help in these kind of situations?+

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Why didnt golf aquaplaned? Do 4wd even help in these kind of situations?+

Many reasons.

First of all the Golf isn't 4WD. It's FWD.

Because it's FWD they probably didn't spend several hours drifting it and therefore wearing the tyres out to the point there is little tread.

Because the Golf is FWD then it's inherently more stable than a RWD car. "Pulling" as opposed to "pushing" is much easier to predict. Think about an articulated lorry and how it's much easier to drive going forward than it is reversing.

The Golf has nearly 100hp less than the M135i

They possibly didn't have the stability system partially disabled on the Golf as they did on the M135i

And this is a TV show and JC likes to have a "story". The Golf might have had all sorts of problems on the wet track too, but they're not going to show that because it doesn't fit the narrative that JC envisaged.

As for whether a 4WD would aquaplane. I'll bow down to Martin's superior knowledge here but I would say it has nothing to do with how the power is delivered to the wheels as to whether there is an increased proclivity to aquaplane. It's purely down to the tyres and the amount of water. What does make a difference is that once you have begun to aquaplane, the inherent imbalance of power that comes with rear wheel driven cars means that a spin is much more likely than in a 4WD car.

 

[martinbo]

And also, it could just be - like it is for so many hapless folks on the freeway who end up spinning into the Armco even with fully active stability systems - luck of the draw.

 

[RS2000 4X4]

I have seen the episode and it was over the top. He really was enjoying himself and from the spin on, the BMW couldnt do anything good anymore. Stupid. You can have the same problem in a 320bhp FWD car in such weather. Traction will aways be a bigger issue the more power the car has and how fast it can put that power into speed. Therefore the Golf with 90 bhp less and a diff (!!) could have been less trouble. Even then sliding all the way around on the track like he was a racing driver, but then when something happends he could not "read", the car is a mistake??? He could have had the same problem with a GT3 or etc...

 

[kip]

Honestly, they did a lot of things to get the end result they got. Feg the awd A 45 AMG would have won in these conditions clearly, but they didnt even test it. Its all to make it more interesting to the audience. I wouldnt put too much value on these tests. TG is entertaining, but far from factual.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I wouldnt put too much value on these tests.

Personally, I don't. I've gone on record many times saying Top Gear should have been put out of its misery several series ago. But to actually manipulate what the viewer sees in such a way is downright wrong.

 

[gun16]

I'd agree I normally don't have problems with what they do but the whole segment was a joke.

Just deleted my whiny Merc owners comments I was typing... "wah wah it was a fully loaded gti and they aren't cheap it should have been an a250 and 125i etc etc"" so will just focus on the shock of them editing out the traction control light. Did seem very surprising a car with so much electrical safety features would do that at not what I would consider excessive speed.

 

[bmwownage]

surprising why they did that. if they simply don't want JC to be embarrassed that he spun going in a straight line, just don't show the whole thing?

 

[Soup]

http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-season-21-episode-5_2452449.htm

 

[Cashmere]

Just watched the segment (great episode btw!). Interestingly, they used the same golf for the cycling advert that was also used for the M135i comparison.

 

[KiwiRob]

They are discounting the crap out of M135's in the UK at the moment. One of my colleagues based in Birmingham has been looking at them, he's been offered between 4 & 6k discount from different dealers, S3 on the other hand the max discount he's been offered is 2k. He's going with the M135, the quoted delivery time is 4 weeks, the S3 is 10-12 weeks. It's a pretty hefty discount on a fairly new model with incredibly short delivery time, are BMW having problems shifting them?

 

[as7920]

They are discounting the crap out of M135's in the UK at the moment. One of my colleagues based in Birmingham has been looking at them, he's been offered between 4 & 6k discount from different dealers, S3 on the other hand the max discount he's been offered is 2k. He's going with the M135, the quoted delivery time is 4 weeks, the S3 is 10-12 weeks. It's a pretty hefty discount on a fairly new model with incredibly short delivery time, are BMW having problems shifting them?

There have been large BMW discounts in the UK for some time now and not just M135is. I managed 13% in May last year but by December some buyers were managing 22%, I was looking at the new GTI (no discount and expensive), Merc A250 engineered by AMG (£500 off max) or loaded M135i with massive discount. Absolute no brainer even before taken cost in to consideration.