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1 Series [Official] New BMW 1-series Sportstourer (F20)
- Thread starter Mr Robert
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The BMW 1 Series is a range of subcompact executive cars (C-segment) manufactured by BMW since 2004. Positioned as the entry-level model in BMW range of products, the first generation was produced in hatchback, coupé and convertible body styles.
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Another chop - moved the hood line down.
Probably helps a little bit. But the larger point I want to make is, you know a design is questionable when fans start wishing if this or that design element or detail was different. I feel like that about most cars to varying degrees. But on the other hand, there are very few cars you know don't want to change a damn thing, like the Z4 (except of course for a hardtop, S65 and proper M underpinnings
). I think those are the designs that stand the test of the time.
Probably helps a little bit. But the larger point I want to make is, you know a design is questionable when fans start wishing if this or that design element or detail was different. I feel like that about most cars to varying degrees. But on the other hand, there are very few cars you know don't want to change a damn thing, like the Z4 (except of course for a hardtop, S65 and proper M underpinnings
). I think those are the designs that stand the test of the time.
braaf
Stuttgart Specialist
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Original post by Martin:
128iS - 4 cylinder, 2.0L TPT - 180 kW (rumoured to be given "iS" nomenclature)
123i - 4 cylinder, 2.0L TPT - 155 kW (speculative)
118i - 4 cylinder, 1.6L TPT - 125 kW (official)
116i - 4 cylinder, 1.6L TPT - 100 kW (official)
114i? - 3 cylinder, 1.5L TPT - 85 kW (expected but still speculative)
I hope there's space for 123i or a 125i in the engine line up to fill the gap that originally existed in the previous generation 1.
128iS - 4 cylinder, 2.0L TPT - 180 kW (rumoured to be given "iS" nomenclature)
123i - 4 cylinder, 2.0L TPT - 155 kW (speculative)
118i - 4 cylinder, 1.6L TPT - 125 kW (official)
116i - 4 cylinder, 1.6L TPT - 100 kW (official)
114i? - 3 cylinder, 1.5L TPT - 85 kW (expected but still speculative)
I hope there's space for 123i or a 125i in the engine line up to fill the gap that originally existed in the previous generation 1.
bmwownage
Kraftkurve King
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i just can't believe it... what's with the black and silver mirrors seriously? what's with the "sport" "urban" badge on the body? Since when did BMW decided to do this kinda stuff? It looks much better with the M pack because the standard car has such a plain empty front bumper... i mean, i really can't imagine how BMW can approve this car to go on sale... i'm betting it looks better in flesh as usual, but still looking at it from a distance, it's going to look like pics because we won't see those very very fine details... The rear is a disaster... it basically got E87 lines, same trunk and different lights...doesn't look very modern, looks like a E87 with new rear lights.. i very very much prefer the E87's tail (and front).
Interior after looking at it again, is OK but it just so not BMW. There is nothing inside (other than the dash/steering wheel/small details) that tells me it is a BMW. The door panel for example, especially how the plastic is moulded so that it pops out at the door lever, is really really very very jap-ish.
Not a good looking car, not a good looking BMW. but it's a BMW afterall, but at this stage i think i prefer a FL E87 over this thing. The current A3 has been on the market longer than the 1series and i got to admit the A3 looks fresher than this.
Interior after looking at it again, is OK but it just so not BMW. There is nothing inside (other than the dash/steering wheel/small details) that tells me it is a BMW. The door panel for example, especially how the plastic is moulded so that it pops out at the door lever, is really really very very jap-ish.
Not a good looking car, not a good looking BMW. but it's a BMW afterall, but at this stage i think i prefer a FL E87 over this thing. The current A3 has been on the market longer than the 1series and i got to admit the A3 looks fresher than this.
SKY
Silver Arrow Expert
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The live pictures don´t help the car. It still looks awkward from the front. The nose shape is a dissaster, and the frontlights huge fro the rest of the car. It´s true the silver pictures SCOTT mentioned make the car look nicer. But they make nicer just the side profile, which is the only nice angle of the F20. The front remains fugly.
The rearlights are totally uninspiring too. Don´t know what BMW was thinking when they designed this car. Ëvery new BMW has had nicely shaped front and rear lights. This is my first BIG disapointment of the recent BMWs.
The rearlights are totally uninspiring too. Don´t know what BMW was thinking when they designed this car. Ëvery new BMW has had nicely shaped front and rear lights. This is my first BIG disapointment of the recent BMWs.
No need for it to grow on me. I would be really happy to buy one, 128i fully loaded, silver, with M-Sport. I expect that when this goes on sale, all of the naysayers will be eating their words. Nearly all the cars it does or will compete with have awkward areas of their designs. The market seems to accept them just fine as demonstrated by their sales. I expect this car will do just fine and has a decent chance of being a home run.
Perhaps the idea of bringing it to the US will grow on BMW NA. The choice by BMW NA to not bring the F20 to the US really baffles me.
BMW would really end up owning the US premium hatch market if they brought it hear in 128i, 135i, and 123d forms. Combined with Mini sales and they would have well over half the market. With Mini, BMW effectively revealed the market that was already there. Why is BMW so afraid of the US market?
If you're in the market here for a premium hatch, not an SUV, you have these options here:
- Audi A3 2.0T/TDI
- BMW - ?
- Lexus - CT200h
- Mercedes - upcoming A-Class (which they intend to bring to the US)
- Mini Cooper / Clubman in all variants
- VW GTI - heavily optioned
- VW Beetle 2.0T/TDI - heavily optioned (VW intends to compete with Mini here)
- Volvo C30
One thing you notice immediately is that they are all FWD, except a select few which come in 4WD as well. My rough number is that this market is just shy of 150,000 cars a year in the US.
If BMW were to sell the F20 1er hatch here they would certainly capture some sales from the competition. BMW might cannibalize some sales from the X3, but with a starting price of $36,750, I would argue that would likely not be significant. They might cannibalize some sales from Mini, but I would think that would be only in the case of the 4-door hatch as Mini's 4-dr is the Countryman. Mini customers are not BMW customers.
But what I really think would happen is that they would grow the market by 10,000 cars a year and steal sales from their competition. This would be because their product in the market would be unique; RWD/xDrive, premium, performance oriented, and if they bring the 123d, able to compete head to head with premium hybrids. This would mean around 15,000 cars sold per year in the US. Is that unrealistic? I think it is the right ballpark. BMW is certainly selling lower volume vehicles here in the States. Why not this car. Is this number enough to bring it to the US?
How is BMW planning to differentiate the upcoming FWD 1-series (F.A.S.T. or 1-GT) from this F20 1er hatch in the markets where they will be sold together? Why wouldn't that differentiation and segmentation work in the US (since BMW has already said they will bring those cars here)?
Scott, I'd appreciate answers to these questions. Thanks.
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What's wrong with people changing their minds? They're just giving their thoughts at that moment based on official photographs from BMW.
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Nothing. But it happens a lot, when people see a new BMW they say it's ugly, and a few days later, or a week or so later, they come around....
Me personally, I haven't looked at the 1er for a couple of days. I will look again in a few days to see what I think of it then. Right now I am in denial/awkward stage, still...
EnI
Piston Pioneer
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"THE NEW BEAUTY - It's so ugly it's beautiful." 
Seriously - sure the F20 is not a classic beauty, but it looks nice & far from being ugly or disproportionate. Actually live ALL the proportions (including headlights vs grille vs nose vs rest of the car) are much better than the proportions of the current E87 1er.
F20 looks MUCH more aggressive, dynamic - sleek if you wish, and sophisticated (call it mature if you prefer that) than E87.
Not to mention the optional Sport & Urban & M-sport lines with various (optional) special interior & exterior trim features give especially the younger customers even more opportunity to customize their 1ers according to their needs & tastes. Expect new A-class & A3 to offer more customization as well. Via lines (eg. Sport, Avantgarde, Classic, AMG, S-line, etc),or even beyond that. Eg. BMW sub-1er little hatch (MINI's brother & A1's rival) will bring even more of that - think Mini-like customization level in BMW style.
Seriously - sure the F20 is not a classic beauty, but it looks nice & far from being ugly or disproportionate. Actually live ALL the proportions (including headlights vs grille vs nose vs rest of the car) are much better than the proportions of the current E87 1er.
F20 looks MUCH more aggressive, dynamic - sleek if you wish, and sophisticated (call it mature if you prefer that) than E87.
Not to mention the optional Sport & Urban & M-sport lines with various (optional) special interior & exterior trim features give especially the younger customers even more opportunity to customize their 1ers according to their needs & tastes. Expect new A-class & A3 to offer more customization as well. Via lines (eg. Sport, Avantgarde, Classic, AMG, S-line, etc),or even beyond that. Eg. BMW sub-1er little hatch (MINI's brother & A1's rival) will bring even more of that - think Mini-like customization level in BMW style.
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Yeah that's the best one yet. Not that that's saying all that much either though...
The pic does show the pinched snout that much more clearly but I still feel that the headlights could've been slimmer.I could easily own one just like it but then I'm not all that hung up on what a car looks like. It's much more about the drive, ownership experience and after sales service for me.
Absolutely nothing. What is surprising is the "strength" of opinion. But then another commenter made the valid point that the internet invites this kind of vitriolic response.
Something to note: IMO the Nissan Juke has got to be one of the ugliest things on the road in the US, yet it's selling over 3,000 units a month. So what do I "know?" Nothing. I just have an opinion and ultimately the market will decide.
I still think the F20 Ier would do quite well in the US and invite well reasoned responses to my questions about bringing the car to the US from BMW insiders.
bmwownage
Kraftkurve King
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OK another day past and i want to express my feelings again:
1. i can't stand that "sport" or "urban" badge on the exact place where the side indicators SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!! and i can't stand such a badge on a BMW anyway... since when did BMW start using these stupid names for offering different specs? Is there a necessity to "copy" the MB way of doing things (Classic/Elegance/Avantgarde)? i don't know, but imo prior to this, and i mean EVERYTHING prior to this, things were perfect, ur specs are based on your engine model, and whether you are a SE model, without much visual difference.. doesn't complicate things up, it makes the person with the higher end model to have a "pride", luring people to get the higher end models, whereas the lower end models automatically get less standard equipment. I think one notable thing was with the E46 330s, getting the titanium touches that other models did not, or the E87 116i getting all these black trims as standard. Now, someone with a low 116i can pay for some urban line or whatever to get better options than a 118 with sports...<--cbb to read the specs, just for illustration. So, no idea why the badge, and why things are separated like this. And what the hell is with the black and white mirrors!!! omg! there was NOTHING WRONG with their previous model strategy and there was and is and will be NO NEED to play around with mirror colours??? why not just keep it body coloured???
2.Exterior-wise, i start to understand the direction, basically they want to keep the same nose shape (not the grille) with a narrower body, so they put a smaller grille on...too small imo. and i am absolutely damn sure that this car is purposely dumbed down for other future models, like the coupe and the F30..come on, a teenage kid can pick up a pencil and draw a better set of headlights..but on the other hand, i think the headlights do align with other BMWs, looking at it from the side reveals a bit of X1 linkage. On close inspection maybe the headlights are OK, details inside are probably excellent but disaster happens when you look at it from a distance and don't see the details. And i must say it needs those silver/titanium coloured grilles to look proper.
3.please tell me why the front wheel arc is so subtle now, even more subtle than the 5series while the E87 had the most aggressive (and beautiful and sporty) wheel arc of all BMWs.
1. i can't stand that "sport" or "urban" badge on the exact place where the side indicators SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!! and i can't stand such a badge on a BMW anyway... since when did BMW start using these stupid names for offering different specs? Is there a necessity to "copy" the MB way of doing things (Classic/Elegance/Avantgarde)? i don't know, but imo prior to this, and i mean EVERYTHING prior to this, things were perfect, ur specs are based on your engine model, and whether you are a SE model, without much visual difference.. doesn't complicate things up, it makes the person with the higher end model to have a "pride", luring people to get the higher end models, whereas the lower end models automatically get less standard equipment. I think one notable thing was with the E46 330s, getting the titanium touches that other models did not, or the E87 116i getting all these black trims as standard. Now, someone with a low 116i can pay for some urban line or whatever to get better options than a 118 with sports...<--cbb to read the specs, just for illustration. So, no idea why the badge, and why things are separated like this. And what the hell is with the black and white mirrors!!! omg! there was NOTHING WRONG with their previous model strategy and there was and is and will be NO NEED to play around with mirror colours??? why not just keep it body coloured???
2.Exterior-wise, i start to understand the direction, basically they want to keep the same nose shape (not the grille) with a narrower body, so they put a smaller grille on...too small imo. and i am absolutely damn sure that this car is purposely dumbed down for other future models, like the coupe and the F30..come on, a teenage kid can pick up a pencil and draw a better set of headlights..but on the other hand, i think the headlights do align with other BMWs, looking at it from the side reveals a bit of X1 linkage. On close inspection maybe the headlights are OK, details inside are probably excellent but disaster happens when you look at it from a distance and don't see the details. And i must say it needs those silver/titanium coloured grilles to look proper.
3.please tell me why the front wheel arc is so subtle now, even more subtle than the 5series while the E87 had the most aggressive (and beautiful and sporty) wheel arc of all BMWs.
Beemer B773ER
Tire Trailblazer
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- Shameel
So I resisted posting anything on the new 1er for a week now, though I've seen all the official photos so far posted in this thread.
Umm yeah.... still not sure what to say. I think the front end looks bad. Not boring like most Audi's, not mediocre like some MB's,.. it actually looks bad.
Everything below the kidneys is completely bland, not an ounce of cohesion with the headlight shape, and it's too horizontal in its design. The M Package helps here, but unfortunately that's overdone with creases.
Headlights definitely needed to be sleeker in profile and overall not so dominating to the eyes. With such curvaceous headlights, the kidneys should have also been made more rounder... or they could have gone for a bolder move and inverted them.
The rear's not much better either. Key issue is the shape of the lights. Everything else is good, especially the lower bumper design...but those lights.....b.o.r.i.n.g. They could have simply copy+pasted the 5er's rear lights, thereby given the rear a more horizontal look (similar to the Mazda 3 hatch, or the new A-class concept). The surface treatment along the sides is very nicely done, but everything else about the exterior just doesn't sit well with my eyes at all.
Interior looks good. A tad busy looking, but I imagine the young'ns like that. The sporty red accents could entice some, and the driver orientated dash looks good too.
Overall, .... I'm not a fan of the new 1er's design. Rather disappointed actually.
Umm yeah.... still not sure what to say. I think the front end looks bad. Not boring like most Audi's, not mediocre like some MB's,.. it actually looks bad.
Everything below the kidneys is completely bland, not an ounce of cohesion with the headlight shape, and it's too horizontal in its design. The M Package helps here, but unfortunately that's overdone with creases.
Headlights definitely needed to be sleeker in profile and overall not so dominating to the eyes. With such curvaceous headlights, the kidneys should have also been made more rounder... or they could have gone for a bolder move and inverted them.
The rear's not much better either. Key issue is the shape of the lights. Everything else is good, especially the lower bumper design...but those lights.....b.o.r.i.n.g. They could have simply copy+pasted the 5er's rear lights, thereby given the rear a more horizontal look (similar to the Mazda 3 hatch, or the new A-class concept). The surface treatment along the sides is very nicely done, but everything else about the exterior just doesn't sit well with my eyes at all.
Interior looks good. A tad busy looking, but I imagine the young'ns like that. The sporty red accents could entice some, and the driver orientated dash looks good too.
Overall, .... I'm not a fan of the new 1er's design. Rather disappointed actually.
SCOTT27
Lap Time Luminary
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Benny over @ BimmerToday | BMW Blog | BMW News | BMW Genf 2011 | BMW 1er, BMW 3er, BMW 5er, BMW 6er, BMW 7er, BMW Z4, BMW X1, BMW X3, BMW X5, BMW X6, BMW M3, BMW M5, BMW M6 has managed to capture undisguised versions of the F20 in Alpine White and Valencia Orange nearby Werk Regensburg.
Acknowledgement to Benny @ BimmerToday.de
Acknowledgement to Benny @ BimmerToday.de
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Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational
manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany.
The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced
from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
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