EQS [Official] Mercedes-Benz EQS

[Merc1]

That isn't going to do it, but I guess there is nothing to lose here. The technical updates are the only hope to save the car.

M

 

[klugscheisser87]

And MB still wonders why their EVs aren’t being bought…

Laughable indeed. But not so long ago Mercedes, BMW and Audi were celebrating doubled EV selling figures compared to 2022, but globally the numbers are very weak still.

The reality is that Chinese automakers are destroing the „legacy” brands same as Tesla (even though people were wating the updated Model 3 and now upcoming Y).

I have the feeling the EV transition will be a very hard process for the German trio despite the propaganda statements.

 

[dalab]

Just as I thought, the FL doesn't contribute anything at all, it even looks better with the previous "grille", putting a sticker on it with the classic one not only doesn't help, but it doesn't fit with the design of the car.

Laughable indeed. But not so long ago Mercedes, BMW and Audi were celebrating doubled EV selling figures compared to 2022, but globally the numbers are very weak still.

The reality is that Chinese automakers are destroing the „legacy” brands same as Tesla (even though people were wating the updated Model 3 and now upcoming Y).

I have the feeling the EV transition will be a very hard process for the German trio despite the propaganda statements.

Bad of many consolation of fools?

Don't involve Audi and BMW in this, they are doing it just fine, the only disastrous reports that are raining down are about the mistakes, bad strategies and terrible decisions of Mercedes

 

[klugscheisser87]

Just as I thought, the FL doesn't contribute anything at all, it even looks better with the previous "grille", putting a sticker on it with the classic one not only doesn't help, but it doesn't fit with the design of the car.

Bad of many consolation of fools?

Don't involve Audi and BMW in this, they are doing it just fine, the only disastrous reports that are raining down are about the mistakes, bad strategies and terrible decisions of Mercedes

Don’t believe all the news from bmwblog

Next to Tesla 1.8mil. and BYD 1,6mil
The german trio’s sales are at least poor:

Mercedes: 240k (18k commercial vehicles)
BMW: 370k
Audi: 180k

Mercedes and BMW had different launching dates in their BEV lineups but their year to year growth is nearly the same around 70%, Audi over 50% and this is the news they want you remember but the sale numbers are a different thing.

 

[dalab]

BMW is an ICE car company, a Legacy Company that only increases sales and profits year after year, selling ICE's when ICE's are in demand and EV's when warranted, it is quite shielded from fluctuations because it has the correct products and strategies for a long time and looking to the future.

That mistake of comparing them with companies that only sell EV's is recurring, the transition was determined in the long term, nothing to do with Mercedes that shows a lack of vision and is paying the price and will pay it in the coming years as I see for having taken incorrect paths in simultaneous, for example, going ahead to go all EV when it was not the way and with products that in the end the public did not like very much, there are many mistakes together

year to year growth is nearly the same around 70%,

Bmw is around 100%, not a minor detail

but the sale numbers are a different thing.

Yes, how many CARS did they sell?, because as far as I know they sell cars, of all kinds.

 

[klugscheisser87]

BMW is an ICE car company, a Legacy Company that only increases sales and profits year after year, selling ICE's when ICE's are in demand and EV's when warranted, it is quite shielded from fluctuations because it has the correct products and strategies for a long time and looking to the future.

That mistake of comparing them with companies that only sell EV's is recurring, the transition was determined in the long term, nothing to do with Mercedes that shows a lack of vision and is paying the price and will pay it in the coming years as I see for having taken incorrect paths in simultaneous, for example, going ahead to go all EV when it was not the way and with products that in the end the public did not like very much, there are many mistakes together

Bmw is around 100%, not a minor detail

Yes, how many CARS did they sell?, because as far as I know they sell cars, of all kinds.

BMW Group Electric Car Sales Hit A New Record In Q4 And 2023

In Q4, BMW Group all-electric car sales amounted to a new record of 129,316 units (up 48% year-over-year), which is the first six-digit quarterly result.

insideevs.com

74% growth in BEV for BMW which makes it nearly identical to Mercedes, don’t mix it with PHEV’s.

ICE legacy and sell numbers make it even less of an importance of vanishing tech due to regulations in the next years, so the ICE domination starts to be less relevant in that comparsion aiming future market raise.

Following the growth of Tesla they will oversell the german trio globally one by one including BMW with their ICE’s in the 1-2 years. Once the updated Model Y is out and the new 3 arrives to NA this might even happen already next year.
Germans nightmare is yet to come, the Model 2.
Tesla took already the place of the top selling premium brand from Mercedes and BMW with their ICE and BEV’s all together in US and China and these were their main markets.

BYD makes very competitive premium cars which did just enter Europe, this will make the market very dangerous for Germans and other EU car makers. Did we saw their famous ships?

These next few years will be very interesting, especially in EU as it wasn’t changing much for decades, this time is def. gone.

IMO the only way to change the tendency is to bring a killer project with very competitive tech and killer range.
For now all we get is a compromise of everything that’s already years on the market. I don’t think the legacy brands have it even in the works.

 

[dalab]

BMW Group Electric Car Sales Hit A New Record In Q4 And 2023

In Q4, BMW Group all-electric car sales amounted to a new record of 129,316 units (up 48% year-over-year), which is the first six-digit quarterly result.

insideevs.com

74% growth in BEV for BMW which makes it nearly identical to Mercedes, don’t mix it with PHEV’s.

ICE legacy and sell numbers make it even less of an importance of vanishing tech due to regulations in the next years, so the ICE domination starts to be less relevant in that comparsion aiming future market raise.

Following the growth of Tesla they will oversell the german trio globally one by one including BMW with their ICE’s in the 1-2 years. Once the updated Model Y is out and the new 3 arrives to NA this might even happen already next year.
Germans nightmare is yet to come, the Model 2.
Tesla took already the place of the top selling premium brand from Mercedes and BMW with their ICE and BEV’s all together in US and China and these were their main markets.

BYD makes very competitive premium cars which did just enter Europe, this will make the market very dangerous for Germans and other EU car makers. Did we saw their famous ships?

These next few years will be very interesting, especially in EU as it wasn’t changing much for decades, this time is def. gone.

IMO the only way to change the tendency is to bring a killer project with very competitive tech and killer range.
For now all we get is a compromise of everything that’s already years on the market. I don’t think the legacy brands have it even in the works.

I consider that your opinion is fundamentally wrong, for BMW or Mercedes that the Tesla Y is the best seller is like when the Corolla or the Golf were the best sellers, it is not as relevant as it seems to you.

That you think Tesla will sell more and more is quite out of focus given the recent events where it had to drastically reduce its prices losing billions in the process, but it can happen, no one is saying otherwise, comparing it with the others is what is wrong

You are seeing with your eyes that BMW is performing better and better and has a path mapped out for itself (not the path of Tesla, not the path of Rivian, not the path of Polestar, etc.), an exponentially successful path and yet, the foundation of your appreciation is born wrong

 

[klugscheisser87]

I consider that your opinion is fundamentally wrong, for BMW or Mercedes that the Tesla Y is the best seller is like when the Corolla or the Golf were the best sellers, it is not as relevant as it seems to you.

That you think Tesla will sell more and more is quite out of focus given the recent events where it had to drastically reduce its prices losing billions in the process, but it can happen, no one is saying otherwise, comparing it with the others is what is wrong

You are seeing with your eyes that BMW is performing better and better and has a path mapped out for itself (not the path of Tesla, not the path of Rivian, not the path of Polestar, etc.), an exponentially successful path and yet, the foundation of your appreciation is born wrong

I’m talking about Mercedes Benz, Audi and BMW, yes it might be hard be processed in your head but these two other brands exist.

The Model 3/Y is the 3er of this century. Panel gaps and some cracky soundes interior materials change nothing here.
I still think as a startup is not of a big deal seeing legacy brands with their quality bloopers too.

The sale numbers aren’t showing a success path as Mercedes the only one had to admit, but the same situation affects BMW and Audi.

 

[dalab]

Mercedes the only one had to admit, but the same situation affects BMW and Audi.

Again, why do you put Audi and BMW in the problems that Mercedes reports?
What situation are you referring to? Since Mercedes is doing badly, should everyone be the same? I don't understand, I haven't read anything about it nor has anyone else.
Pass the links of the sources, whether you want it or hallucinate it does not make it real

I’m talking about Mercedes Benz, Audi and BMW, yes it might be hard be processed in your head but these two other brands exist.

Nice comment to have a conversation, right, I remembered who you are, bye

 

[klugscheisser87]

Again, why do you put Audi and BMW in the problems that Mercedes reports?
What situation are you referring to? Since Mercedes is doing badly, should everyone be the same? I don't understand, I haven't read anything about it nor has anyone else.
Pass the links of the sources, whether you want it or hallucinate it does not make it real


Nice comment to have a conversation, right, I remembered who you are, bye

Just remember the headlines from 2 months ago when Mercedes was celebrating the nearly double growth in BEV sales, now they admit it’s not enough.

Maybe this will make you understand how does it reflect the situation of BMW and Audi where the last’s one is in even worse scenario based on sales figures.

 

[dalab]

when Mercedes was celebrating the nearly double growth in BEV sales, now they admit it’s not enough.

Mercedes celebrates anything, the problem is that in 2021 it lost 400,000 sales in general and they have not recovered since then, rather they continued to drop, It goes far beyond EV sales.

Not only are they admitting that "it is not enough", but more importantly, they are admitting that they were wrong in plan A, plan B and Plan C, therein lies the seriousness of the issue and the total change of course that they are announcing for the U-turn.

BMW and Audi where the last’s one is in even worse scenario based on sales figures.

Are you referring to Audi? They increased their sales by a huge 17% in 2023 and you keep talking about EV's, I already explained to you that they are ICE car companies until that changes, everything is calm as long as they sell more.

 

[klugscheisser87]

Mercedes celebrates anything, the problem is that in 2021 it lost 400,000 sales in general and they have not recovered since then, rather they continued to drop, It goes far beyond EV sales.

Not only are they admitting that "it is not enough", but more importantly, they are admitting that they were wrong in plan A, plan B and Plan C, therein lies the seriousness of the issue and the total change of course that they are announcing for the U-turn.

Are you referring to Audi? They increased their sales by a huge 17% in 2023 and you keep talking about EV's, I already explained to you that they are ICE car companies until that changes, everything is calm as long as they sell more.

Maybe now it’s the moment you get it finally. I’m talking all the time about BEV’s as that’s the future and everyone’s manufacturer goal and the numbers of all German trio are dissapointing whatever their official statement is. Mercedes at least agrees to that after previously hyping their growth.

As I said before, to get close to Tesla or to growing Chinese premium car makers, the German trio would need a class leading product in tech and range, but even now it’s quite late as the competition has over 80% of market share in the premium segment.

Imagine a C-Class / 3 series with 800w charging tech and 800km EPA range with Tesla like software and all for a Model Y price (give the folks at least the hardware the ami doesn’t have). This would be competitive to transition ICE sale numbers into the BEV future and take a part of the cake from US and China.

 

[dalab]

Maybe now it’s the moment you get it finally. I’m talking all the time about BEV’s as that’s the future and everyone’s manufacturer goal and the numbers of all German trio are dissapointing whatever their official statement is. Mercedes at least agrees to that after previously hyping their growth.

Future? what future? They are talking about 2035 or more, you know everything that can happen in these 15 to 20 years....
Again and I leave, the BMW factories are at full speed, they don't give a damn if they are EV's or not, that's because they are making an orderly transition, with shared platforms in general and amortizing the NK that will be released next year for compete with any EV's, Mercedes refused to handle ICE platforms from now on and now they have to start over, do you understand the difference?

They are ICE companies and today they sell ICE 80% vs EV's 20%, due to this stagnation in EV sales it is the EV manufacturers Rivian, Lucid, Polestar, etc. that are worried, don't you see? Mercedes got itself into the mess because make incorrect strategic decisions, I couldn't be clearer

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Huh? Don't Mercedes have MRA2 and MFA2 still in production? What do you mean they "refused to handle ICE platforms". The C-class and E-class were just released, and will continue to exist for at least another 6 years as the BEV platforms slowly ramp up.

 

[dalab]

Huh? Don't Mercedes have MRA2 and MFA2 still in production? What do you mean they "refused to handle ICE platforms". The C-class and E-class were just released, and will continue to exist for at least another 6 years as the BEV platforms slowly ramp up.

Please read the reports that explain themselves and better, they had decided that these would be the last ICE's, and since 2030 nothing, now they must resolve that when you had already taken the first steps aimed at only manufacturing EV's.
Textually it is explained that they will have to modify platforms etc

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Please read the reports that explain themselves and better, they had decided that these would be the last ICE's, and since 2030 nothing, now they must resolve that when you had already taken the first steps aimed at only manufacturing EV's.
Textually it is explained that they will have to modify platforms etc

MFA2 and MRA2 are modular architectures. They can be adapted and scaled to a number of different models as needed for at least another decade of Mercedes so choose.

For example BMW have been using CLAR since 2015, which is 9, going on 10 years.
Heck the i7, i5 and i4 are based on CLAR.

Mercedes can make an updated MRA if they really need to to produce more ICE vehicles and MMA is already designed to accommodate multiple powertrains which should cover the budget end (CLA, GLA etc.) for quite some time. The entire purpose of these modular architectures is the Flexibility that they afford manufacturers.

 

[dalab]

MFA2 and MRA2 are modular architectures. They can be adapted and scaled to a number of different models as needed for at least another decade of Mercedes so choose.

For example BMW have been using CLAR since 2015, which is 9, going on 10 years.
Heck the i7, i5 and i4 are based on CLAR.

Mercedes can make an updated MRA if they really need to to produce more ICE vehicles and MMA is already designed to accommodate multiple powertrains which should cover the budget end (CLA, GLA etc.) for quite some time. The entire purpose of these modular architectures is the Flexibility that they afford manufacturers.

Ok, nothing happens then, you should talk to Ola, since he seems not to be aware of the information you handle and is changing strategies that cost billions for the pleasure of it.

Since 2021 they established that in 2025 50% would be electric with different platforms, and all EV by 2030, don't you think that implies that you began to change your production and factories and operations incorrectly?

Today
"However, extending the life of combustion vehicles “adds some execution complexity”, Houchois warned. Mercedes would need to manage building ICE and BEV platforms in parallel for longer as it stretched the life of its EQ electric brand, which will ultimately be retired as all models shifted to electric."
Autocar.co.uk
Please read the various reports from Mercedes on the changes in this and the luxury strategy

BMW have been using CLAR

CLAR is not the platform designed to handle all types of powertrains, EV, Hybrids and ICE?
Are the C-Class/E-Class/S-Class platform like this?
Don't you see the difference and associated costs?

 

[leylandi]

CLAR is not the platform designed to handle all types of powertrains, EV, Hybrids and ICE?

no

 

[leylandi]

CLAR was designed exclusively for ICE based cars. BMW updated this platform to include a battery underneath. Mercedes can do the same on its existing platforms if it wants.

 

[dalab]

Trying to minimize things

Mercedes can do the same on its existing platforms if it wants.

2018, about BMW new platform:

"This is a remarkable solution to the production problem plaguing the major car manufacturers at present: which powertrain to commit to going forward? Which will the public eventually favour? Get it wrong and the consequences are severe, because car companies are like oil tankers. Such is the lead time on vehicle development that changing direction to respond to market whims normally takes years, and to do it quickly is almost impossible"