i8 [Official] BMW i8 World Premiere

[Monster]

My other worry for the i8 is how is the three-pot engine going to sound in the high rev's..............hope it doesnt sound like a tractor.

I am sure it will have artificial sound generator to make the engine noise sound more pleasant and powerful .

 

[Sunny]

I really like the i8. But at the same time, I don't think Mercedes is that far off in hybrid technology. I dare say they are even stevens at this time. The i8 is a technology showcase which BMW has sensibly threw all its resources behind to produce. The electric drivetrain in the electric-only SLS AMG is just as impressive if not better.

I might be wrong, but the system in the electric SLS AMG packs even more energy density and power pound-for-pound. The downside is the price and the long time it takes to charge the batteries.

It is one thing making a prototype, completely another making a production ready car. Most university workshops worth their salt can probably beat up a electric test car together these days. Not saying Mercedes is ahead or behind but the electric SLS is a bad gauge of measuring where it is. The fact they had to outsource the driveline in the electric B class to Tesla is much more telling.

And it is not just the electric driveline where the i program gives BMW an advantage but also the cost effective production and use of CF chassis in cheaper cars. The pdf Eni posted earlier had many interesting points BMW had to figure out - from training people to fix CF chassis to opening centers that could do that. Stuff like that takes time and doesn't come from running a few prototypes at a test track.

 

[Wunderkind]

It is one thing making a prototype, completely another making a production ready car. Most university workshops worth their salt can probably beat up a electric test car together these days. Not saying Mercedes is ahead or behind but the electric SLS is a bad gauge of measuring where it is. The fact they had to outsource the driveline in the electric B class to Tesla is much more telling.

And it is not just the electric driveline where the i program gives BMW an advantage but also the cost effective production and use of CF chassis in cheaper cars. The pdf Eni posted earlier had many interesting points BMW had to figure out - from training people to fix CF chassis to opening centers that could do that. Stuff like that takes time and doesn't come from running a few prototypes at a test track.

Yes, you are mostly right. But there is no shame in outsourcing some of the work to Tesla as they are part of the Daimler/Aabar family and are pretty advanced in lithium battery technology and also hold many important patents.

As for carbon fibre technology. It's a long game. I'm not worried about the perception of Mercedes lagging BMW because BMW has a small volume niche production car out first. No one has got it all figured out on how to produce a volume-production model platform out of carbon. Everyone is only talking hybrid construction in using carbon to replace certain steel chassis components such as body panels, structural parts that are out of sight. NOT a wholesale move to carbon.

I will give a medal to the first car manufacturer that commits to building a full scale production line dedicated to carbon fibre. I was told the pace of adapting aerospace carbon to automotive applications is slow and the weak global economy is not helping. Also, there are still other low hanging fruits that car manufacturers are picking to reduce fuel consumption and emissions before they have to take the expensive plunge and move to carbon en masse. For the foreseeable future, carbon will remain the preserve of high-end sports and luxury models (the i3 being the exception, perhaps).

 

[Sunny]

Yes, you are mostly right. But there is no shame in outsourcing some of the work to Tesla as they are part of the Daimler/Aabar family and are pretty advanced in lithium battery technology and also hold many important patents.

I didn't say there was any shame in outsourcing, but the fact that they had to is probably a better measure of where there own internal expertise is at than a test electric car.

As for carbon fibre technology. It's a long game. I'm not worried about the perception of Mercedes lagging BMW because BMW has a small volume niche production car out first. No one has got it all figured out on how to produce a volume-production model platform out of carbon. Everyone is only talking hybrid construction in using carbon to replace certain steel chassis components such as body panels, structural parts that are out of sight. NOT a wholesale move to carbon.

I will give a medal to the first car manufacturer that commits to building a full scale production line dedicated to carbon fibre. I was told the pace of adapting aerospace carbon to automotive applications is slow and the weak global economy is not helping. Also, there are still other low hanging fruits that car manufacturers are picking to reduce fuel consumption and emissions before they have to take the expensive plunge and move to carbon en masse. For the foreseeable future, carbon will remain the preserve of high-end sports and luxury models (the i3 being the exception, perhaps).

i3 is a whole sale move to carbon. It uses a CF chassis not just use a few carbon panels. The fact the car costs ~$40k and BMW is going to do it profitably at that price level and mass produce it on a production line and have the infrastructure in place to service and repair them is pretty commendable and IMO a significant breakthrough.

 

[braaf]

i3 is a whole sale move to carbon. It uses a CF chassis not just use a few carbon panels. The fact the car costs ~$40k and BMW is going to do it profitably at that price level and mass produce it on a production line and have the infrastructure in place to service and repair them is pretty commendable and IMO a significant breakthrough.

On top of that, they now have the expertise to filter CF use down to their higher volume models (3er and so on) more cost effectively thus giving them the edge in the race to save weight and cut fuel consumption.

 

[Levi68]

Yes, you are mostly right. But there is no shame in outsourcing some of the work to Tesla as they are part of the Daimler/Aabar family and are pretty advanced in lithium battery technology and also hold many important patents.

As for carbon fibre technology. It's a long game. I'm not worried about the perception of Mercedes lagging BMW because BMW has a small volume niche production car out first. No one has got it all figured out on how to produce a volume-production model platform out of carbon. Everyone is only talking hybrid construction in using carbon to replace certain steel chassis components such as body panels, structural parts that are out of sight. NOT a wholesale move to carbon.

I will give a medal to the first car manufacturer that commits to building a full scale production line dedicated to carbon fibre. I was told the pace of adapting aerospace carbon to automotive applications is slow and the weak global economy is not helping. Also, there are still other low hanging fruits that car manufacturers are picking to reduce fuel consumption and emissions before they have to take the expensive plunge and move to carbon en masse. For the foreseeable future, carbon will remain the preserve of high-end sports and luxury models (the i3 being the exception, perhaps).

How to build CF chassis is not the problem. We have so many cars now compared that have CF chassis, compared to before with One-77, Huayra, Agera, LaFerrari, 918 Spyder, P1, MP4-12C, Aventador, LFA, Roading, 4C and now i8 and even i3. Toyota/Subaru are going to use more CF in their performance cars, BMW in their M cars and the upcoming modulable RWD platform, Mercedes AMG with many CF pannels, same for Aston Martin and so on. It is mainly a cost issue and how to implement the whole. I would bet CF to be a common thing with normal premium cars and less premium like Toyota, within 2 generations. BMW might have some advance on rivals (Mercedes/Audi/Porsche), but in due time they'll be back up there.

I really like the i8. But at the same time, I don't think Mercedes is that far off in hybrid technology. I dare say they are even stevens at this time. The i8 is a technology showcase which BMW has sensibly threw all its resources behind to produce. The electric drivetrain in the electric-only SLS AMG is just as impressive if not better.

I might be wrong, but the system in the electric SLS AMG packs even more energy density and power pound-for-pound. The downside is the price and the long time it takes to charge the batteries.

My other worry for the i8 is how is the three-pot engine going to sound in the high rev's..............hope it doesnt sound like a tractor.

A 3 cylinder does not sound sound bad, sure it is not as smooth as a 6 cylinder in line. 3 cylinders sound "similar" to boxer 6 engine.

That is the sound of the MV Augusta F3. Sounds good to me.

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[SCOTT27]

Except that for BMW our moment is now...
Our competitors admit they are still a long way off for the level of CFRP implementation in a volume car like the BMW i3.

 

[Levi68]

Except that for BMW our moment is now...
Our competitors admit they are still a long way off for the level of CFRP implementation in a volume car like the BMW i3.

Sure, BMW's moment is now, but so do Audi and Mercedes have their moment with the R8 and SLC, whereas BMW's (not green) sportscar/supercar moment is not even in future. (I hope they'll show a concept at Tokio in December.)

 

[Wunderkind]

I like it!

 

[Sunny]

While going over the specs something just struck me - the 3 cylinder engine in the i8 has less than half the displacement of a US spec E36 M3 (1.5l vs 3.2l), but yet makes almost the same HP (231 vs 240) and exactly same torque (236lbft). The cars even weigh almost the same (1490kg vs 1460kg).

 

[Wunderkind]

While going over the specs something just struck me - the 3 cylinder engine in the i8 has less than half the displacement of a US spec E36 M3 (1.5l vs 3.2l), but yet makes almost the same HP (231 vs 240) and exactly same torque (236lbft). The cars even weigh almost the same (1490kg vs 1460kg).

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the E36 M3 (from 20 years ago) was not the REAL McCOY M3. It was just a tarted up 328i with a M badge for the US market. I remember there being issues about the Euro-spec M3 not compliant with the US laws.

Scott would know, he's kinda old like me.

 

[bimmerjph]

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the E36 M3 (from 20 years ago) was not the REAL McCOY M3. It was just a tarted up 328i with a M badge for the US market. I remember there being issues about the Euro-spec M3 not compliant with the US laws.

Scott would know, he's kinda old like me.

You are correct. We got shafted.

 

[Sunny]

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the E36 M3 (from 20 years ago) was not the REAL McCOY M3. It was just a tarted up 328i with a M badge for the US market. I remember there being issues about the Euro-spec M3 not compliant with the US laws.

Scott would know, he's kinda old like me.

Well, I should know, I have one. Yes, the US M3 wasn't the full monty. The engine was a spruced up M52 (S52B32) with single VANOS instead of double on the euro M3s and 240 HP instead of 316HP (286 in 3L pre-96 models).

 

[Deckhook]

I sincerely hope it offers more boot space than the F-type otherwise you will have Agent K on your case when he returns.

 

[EnI]

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[martinbo]

It looks sooo much better without the camo on!

 

[marley71]

Carbon fibre technology, independent axle 4wd technology, and the styling are the highlights of this car.

The packaging efficiency is horrible. But that's to be expected, the first cellphones were bricks. The engines at either end, whether electric or internal combustion, need to get a lot smaller to justify the elimination of the driveshaft and transfer mechanisms that they facilitate. The trade off with this design is too expensive. Only in an "exotic", because that's what this i8 is, is it reasonable to ask people to store their bags in the back seat. I can just imagine the back pain even at my relatively young age.

Still a lovely car, and I would be ecstatic to just see one on the road.

 

[Giannis]

Well, I should know, I have one. Yes, the US M3 wasn't the full monty. The engine was a spruced up M52 (S52B32) with single VANOS instead of double on the euro M3s and 240 HP instead of 316HP (286 in 3L pre-96 models).

May I add the single throttle butterfly for the US model, as opposed to the 6 individual ones for the euro model.

 

[klier]

May I add the single throttle butterfly for the US model, as opposed to the 6 individual ones for the euro model.

Sure you can. Wiki gives all the answers one would need though.

 

[Levi68]

Sure you can. Wiki gives all the answers one would need though.

What if somebody as me modified the wiki page and wrote V6 instead of I6?