5 Series (F10) [Official] BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo (F07)

[martinbo]

???? With all due respect, sir ... but this is a BS that I hardly believe it came from you. It's not worthy of your otherwise very high level of intelligence. Martin, do you still stick to what you have said above?

Maybe I do and maybe I don't. So what? Intelligent people are entitled to have an opinion on a particular topic whether that opinion is ultimately right or wrong. Astro-physicists and astronomers debated the merits of classifying Pluto as a bona fide planet or a dwarf planet for hours. Read that again: seriously clever people argued the merit therein. Eventually by way of a vote Pluto was voted to be a dwarf planet. Those academics who voted to keep Pluto a planet by way of their opinion must be total fu$king idiots I suppose.

The thing to debate here is whether the person espousing the opinion can talk from a position of knowledge or not. I gave you my own, clearly informed, opinion of where I see the X4 sitting and its respective merits when judged against its platform-sharing peers. My argument was a mix of objectivity (the X4 costs more than an X3 but has less practical use) and subjectivity (an X4 is ugly in a way that a 4er is not ugly - thereby being unable to justify its price premium based on exclusive looks). Which leads me on to this:

Questionable purpose? Judged by whom? By internet forum people? Definitely not by hundreds of thousands of people who have bought vehicles of "questionable purpose".

Yes, EnI, this IS an Internet forum and its reason for being is for people to be able to impart their opinion on, and debate, automotive matters; based on their level of knowledge the weight of their opinion will be judged by the community in general. Surely, any logical person could work out what the purpose of such a place is, and, if so offended by a seemingly low standard of opinion would simply not participate? So why do you? Are you not mature enough to appreciate the inevitability that there will be opinion imparted that does not meet your lofty standards?

So, you're telling us that you're an "end justifies the means" kind of person. In this you infer that the 5er GTs sales volumes justify its existence and there'd be no way to disprove this notion. However, what you can justify / quantify is the negative impact this model has in other areas of BMW's business. What metrics do you have for cannibalised 7er sales that arose as a result? Surely the 7er needs all the market share it can get against given its certainly greater product lifecycle costings? Could you even present such metrics for the edification of this forum's members and, even if you could, thanks but bully for you all the same.

I only ask for VALID ARGUMENTS. Insubstantial personal opinions are useless for a serious & great debate.

EnI, you are not in a position to ask for "valid arguments". You can only, by way of presenting a stronger set of facts, invalidate the arguments of others.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Astro-physicists and astronomers debated the merits of classifying Pluto as a bona fide planet or a dwarf planet for hours.

I wonder how long it would have taken them to decide on the merits of the 5er GT and the X4.

In this you infer that the 5er GTs sales volumes justify its existence and there'd be no way to disprove this notion. However, what you can justify / quantify is the negative impact this model has in other areas of BMW's business. What metrics do you have for cannibalised 7er sales that arose as a result?

Exactly. It's the same argument that the E65 7 Series WAS a success based on record sales numbers even though its looks polarised opinion. Who knows how many it would have sold if it HADN'T polarised opinions?

 

[SCOTT27]

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. And there is worthwhile arguments for and against.
But the results are that these low volume niches have proved to be successful and are high profit return vehicles. Remember the BMW targets for the 3er GT and 5er GT were 10% of annual sales only and both vehicles have made and in some cases exceeded that target.

We know about the X6 in how to define a new segment and we are about to launch the X4.

 

[EnI]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Entitled - yes ...
His/her opinion to be taken seriously - not automatically ... only when substantiated with viable arguments ...



I'm not fighting the right to opinion here ... only the part about the seriousness of the opinions without serious arguments.


When someone says that one vehicle is not practical ... Do I ask to much when I wanted to know WHY? I assume some rational was a base for such claim - eg. the person having a dog that does not fit into the boot etc. Or having a toddler & the roof line obstructs comfortable access when putting the toddler into his seat etc.

Is that too much to ask?

I'm just a very curious person who is not easily satisfied - especially when claims are made without any rationale behind. How can people debate when there is no rationale, no arguments etc.

Ok, everybody is entitled to come to a public forum & make a statement & tell his/her opinion. But what's the point if everybody does that - without making arguments and so a great debate & intellectual interaction between members isn't even possible.

OK, perhaps I'm too old fashioned ... Still living in the pre-Facebook & pre-Twitter times, when in forums exchanged ARGUMENTS, not opinions. And there were great debates going on.

While today - in FB & Twitter times - people just post their "mental farts" (aka opinions) that can't even be debated. And when they are, those people fight that with argument that "They are entitled to (intellectually poor & content-less & argument-less) opinion and that's the final argument. Period.".

I guess I just expect too much from people. Sorry.

 

[Mr Robert]

Entitled - yes ...
His/her opinion to be taken - not automatically ... only when substantiated with viable arguments ...

I guess I just expect too much from people. Sorry.

Well, all I can say is, that as far as arguments go around here, I'm not going to strike down on what some might find an uneducated opinion, as long as the expression of this opinion is within the rules of this forum. What I will, however, always and forever, strike down upon is the bad practice of putting people down and making unnecessary personal remarks, just because one doesn't agree. In this regard. I will make no exceptions.

Around here, all opinions that are presented in a polite manner, are welcome, how "stupid" they may sound to those who think they know better. Please feel free to educate people, tell them things they might not have known when they made up their mind, but do so in a way you would have done to a friend.

This rant was not just for you, and that you know, but this was a fine place for it.

Questions? PM.

 

[Mr Robert]

From here on, please, share your thaughts on the 5-series GT.

Thanks.

Should you feel inclined to discuss anything else, feel free to do so elsewhere.

Questions? PM.

 

[ThroughandThrough]

If you've wondered how cars are covered in camouflage, here is a video showing the 5 Series Gran Turismo undergoing the transformation:

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This video shows the BMW team building an Integrated Design Model:

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[klier]

Very nice, never seen how they do that.