A1/S1 Official: Audi A1

[Centurion]

I get what you're saying, but the Mustang/Fiesta is a bad example. Two totally different cars and purposes. If the Fiesta doesn't sell it won't have anything to do with the Mustang.


M

It's a bad example because the pricing of small cars in the US is bad. Most people buy small cars because they can't either afford to buy large ones or own them. But if that purschasing gap between a large popular car and a mundance small car is not wide enough, then that won't get people jumping on the hatchback wagon. The purpuse of a small car is to cheaper, but if it barely is cheaper then a large car and won't retain it's value as well, then there are few reasons for buying it.

 

[martinbo]

Yep, I'm surprised as well - since the A1 Concept featured a rear multi-link suspension.

But it sounds logical - to use a common VAG platform (slightly tweaked), and not developing a completely new one.

In order to compete toe-to-toe with MINI, I'd have expected a new, clever multi-link axle. It would've led to more component compatibility for specifically when the AWD models come into production (surely this is inevitable?)

So, I gather this is A1. I also anticipate that there will be an A1 Sportback, given the concept of the same name. Perhaps only then will Audi show its hand regarding a quattro equipped A1.

As for the net result? I wish I had taken bets when I said "What's the bet... torsion beam axle..."

Btw, here is a copy/paste from the press release:

Thanks. LOL. For whatever reason that paragraph regarding the Torsion beam axle is omitted in the Press Release that Shining Star posted.

 

[Giannis]

The interior for me really is a let-down! Imo the Polo looks more german and solid inside than the wannabe funky A1. Not to mention that most parts (like the speedometre, and rest of the dials are the same).

The A1 only has a bit more chrome around the door handles and air vents. Not premium enough over the Polo.

_____

Moreover, as Martin noted, the torsion beam rear suspension is not enough, no matter how crisp the steering is, to win the driving enjoyment part of the deal. Also, I believe the rear setup is a kind of hybrid with a torsion beam and trailing arms. But I'll have to look at the Polo Press Release to be sure.

 

[Mockenrue]

I love it!

Beautiful details and design elements. As expected it looks rather similar to the Metroproject quattro concept vehicle; I saw that car up close at the Goodwood Festival of Speed last year and I’m pleased that the A1 retains that look. Proportions closer overall to the Fiat, but probably a much better drive and undoubtedly better quality, economy and reliability. More space than the Mini, greater comfort, better interior and in my opinion nicer looking. A more than worthy competitor to both cars.

This has the potential to be a fantastic addition to the range and I’m sure it’ll be a great success. I’m looking forward to studying the technical specifications in more detail, and seeing what other colour variations emerge over the next few days.

 

[martinbo]

^ In any twist-axle layout, the torsion beam and trailing arms are mutually inclusive - so there's no hybrid per se of the two. They are one.

As for the interior, I disagree to an extent. The Audi's is definitely more premium and less bland than the Polo's interior. Even though the Polo's is well built, in typical VW fashion its very austere and straightlaced. That's another way of saying dull. At least the A1's dash exhibits some recognisable styling cues and details that are reminiscent of other great Audi interiors such as TT mk1 and mk2 and the current A3.

 

[bmer]

Well, there are no surprises with the exterior as it leaked a long time ago and it's also very close to the original concept. A bit too cute for my taste though.

The interior is the best part of the car IMO. Very classy and modern with great attention to detail.

 

[EnI]

In order to compete toe-to-toe with MINI, I'd have expected a new, clever multi-link axle. It would've led to more component compatibility for specifically when the AWD models come into production (surely this is inevitable?)

Could be. Eg. MiTo lost all the handling / steering comparison to MINI. But capitalize on other features like comfort, space, engine - performance ...

Thanks. LOL. For whatever reason that paragraph regarding the Torsion beam axle is omitted in the Press Release that Shining Star posted.

It's there. I copy/pasted the text from the PR ShinigStar posted.

But oddly the torsion-beam rear is mentioned in the "Direct: the power steering" chapter, not in the "Chasis" one (where they talk about suspension).

Martin, can you give us the elaboration on suspension of MINI vs MiTO vs A1. Pleeeeease.

All A1 info is there in the PR under Chasis & Steering chapters:
Audi A1 (2011) with pictures and wallpapers ; or look my previous copy/paste.

Here is MiTo spec list:
Front: Mac-Pherson Independent Front Wheel. Front transverse trailing arm. Shock absorbers with rebound springs. Anti Roll bar.
Rear: Torsion beam with C cross-section and high torsional stiffness; slotted bushings with variable stiffness for attaching beam to bodyshell;
high - stiffness helical springs; contractive vertical shock absorbers

And MINI (Cooper):
Front: Singe-joint Mc Pherson spring strut axle with anti-drive
Rear: Longitudinal struts with centrally-pivoted control arms, Z-axle
The MINI’s front axle is based on the McPherson spring strut principle, an anti-roll bar reducing body sway to an absolute minimum. The central-arm rear axle, in turn, is quite unique in this segment, aluminium longitudinal track control arms serving to reduce weight by 6 kilos versus the former model.
Benefiting from their sophisticated kinematics, the wheels have optimum grip at all times, regardless of the camber of the road surface. As a result, the rear axle supported by an anti-roll bar on both model variants makes a decisive contribution to the car’s superior agility and safe handling.

 

[Monster]

The A1 is a decent small car from Audi with some nice design details, but overall it isn't as funky as the Mini.

The only problem I have with the exterior is the design of the lower part of the bumper, it is almost identical to the A4. Comon Audi, be more creative.

http://img130.imageshack.us/i/compd.jpg/

 

[MikeJ]

I'm generally not a small-car person but I like this one a lot. It manages to look cool and modern without going for a toy-like look. It seems like a car for grown-ups, which is more than can be said of some of the competition.

 

[SKY]

If you go to the Autobild.de site, you can see plenty of pics of the new A1, the two first ones are woth the S-Line pack.

 

[klier]

^^^ What's your definition of grown up? Because I'd be etremely embarrased if I were 40 + years old and driving an Audi A1. LMFAO, the thought alone

I agree with Giannis about the A1 virtually bing a Polo from the inside. A lot here are really way, way over the top with the interior quality in this new A1, or even the new A8 for that matter.

I will say this, Audi has always had the best shut lines in the business, but to have an A1's shut line between the hood and the fender so tight is VERY impressive. The gaps in the E and C class are much bigger.

I agree about the panel gaps being very tight on this car. I don't agree with the rest, and we will see how those panel gaps hold up on the production version.

 

[Deleted member 25]

The A1 is a decent small car from Audi with some nice design details, but overall it isn't as funky as the Mini.

The only problem I have with the exterior is the design of the lower part of the bumper, it is almost identical to the A4. Comon Audi, be more creative.

Actually that's the very precise area i am the most critic about, Audi didn't change it since what ? The very first single frame grill ? The crap thing is that the concept dealt with it well and transposing it to the real car wouldn't have been that costly, but as usual with audi, any microscopic dose of creativity must be shoot down.

 

[DaSilva]

If you go to the Autobild.de site, you can see plenty of pics of the new A1, the two first ones are woth the S-Line pack.

Thanks! ******* Sick! I had to take printscreen (regards DaSilva)

The inside with S-line must be of the hook

 

[bmer]

AM&S also has a video with Mr. Sielaff explaining the design.

 

[martinbo]

Martin, can you give us the elaboration on suspension of MINI vs MiTO vs A1. Pleeeeease.

Well you've gone and done it for me in any event. Sorry, been offline a lot today. Work pressures.

Without turning this into a tech-talk forum level discussion it'll suffice at this point for me to summarise that:

• Torsion beam or twist axle suspensions are semi-independent. This means that the movement of one wheel has an effect on the behaviour of the other.

• There are handling disadvantages arising from this, particularly in the areas of wheel deflection, camber control, roll stiffness and so on.

• Multi link suspensions - being independant left-to-right - such as those seen on MINI, Focus and Golf 5/6 far better address these issues allowing for better fine-tuning of rear suspension camber control, stiffness and overall wheel location geometry. This ultimately results in better rear suspension control and thus improved vehicle handling characteristics at the rear.

 

[ABCD]

Audi A1

 

[EnI]

Well you've gone and done it for me in any event. Sorry, been offline a lot today. Work pressures.

Without turning this into a tech-talk forum level discussion it'll suffice at this point for me to summarise that:

• Torsion beam or twist axle suspensions are semi-independent. This means that the movement of one wheel has an effect on the behaviour of the other.

• There are handling disadvantages arising from this, particularly in the areas of wheel deflection, camber control, roll stiffness and so on.

• Multi link suspensions - being independant left-to-right - such as those seen on MINI, Focus and Golf 5/6 far better address these issues allowing for better fine-tuning of rear suspension camber control, stiffness and overall wheel location geometry. This ultimately results in better rear suspension control and thus improved vehicle handling characteristics at the rear.

Thanks.

What about different front suspension solutions & handling / steering?

 

[bmer]

Audi A1

The Audi A1. The next big Audi

LOL Does it come standard with Napoleon syndrome?

 

[martinbo]

Thanks.

What about different front suspension solutions & handling / steering?

Interesting that you should ask this...

Look, when it comes to front suspensions on small, compact hatches, the Macpherson strut is practically ubiquitous. So all cars in this category are on pretty much level footing. The Macpherson strut is a lovely, compact design. It combines the shock absorber and spring in a single strut which in turn is located to the chassis via lower control arm.

The big consideration comes in when you're putting power to the front wheels as is the case with any FWD car. More sophisticated FWD cars like the Audi A4 forego Macpherson struts for a four link or double wishbone suspension configuration. In the A4's case this is not to quell torque steer but to provide better refinement and body control at the front of the car.

So, back to the good 'ol Macpherson strut. What we have seen in terms of recent developments comes from Renault and Ford and this takes the shape of a solution designed to lessen the effects of torque steer. Ford calls theirs Revo-Knuckle and I forget what Renault eventually called theirs. Anyhoo, the idea is that steering axis - the point at the bottom end of the strut around which the wheel connector traditionally pivots - is located via a kind of 2nd hub closer to the rotational axis of the wheel itself.

The end result is a wheel that is less prone to the effects of driveshaft induced torque. Here's a nice picture of the Revoknuckle componentry:



Compared with a traditional Macpherson strut the difference is easy to see on this Golf V suspension:

This set up is complex and expensive and is employed by only the most fastidious proponents of FWD. Thus, it should not be expected at this level of the market imo.

 

[bmer]

Any word if there will be a coupe & cabrio versions and if so, will they be dubbed A2?

It would make sense:

A1 (3-dr) - A2 (coupe & cabrio) competing with Mini Coupe/Cabrio
A4 (sedan/wagon) - A5 (coupe/sportback/cabrio)
A6 (sedan/wagon) - A7 (sportback/cabrio???)

Well OK, the A3 is the odd bird here.