M3/M4 [Official] 2021 BMW M3 and M4 [G80 & G82]

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Ok. I get your point somewhat ... like you said: Comparing base model to base model is as scientific as we can get here. I give you that.
That could have meant (in case G8x would have been avail only with ZF8), that we are then really comparing apples to oranges.
Which we do anyhow! We compare a bigger car with a smaller one ... some people are comparing original F8x data (without OPF stuff) with G8x data (with OPF) ... and so on.

Finally (for me) it boils down to roughly two questions:
- can we deduce from the weight AND taking into account the additional features of the G8x (more space, much stiffer), whether BMW was "lazy" or not regarding weight management?
- does you as a driver really feel the added weight?

Regarding 1) - I have NO clue!
Regarding 2) - not any tester of the pre-drive event mentioned, that the G8x feels heavier than the F8x, which they drove right before.
I personally do have an expectation: The added size will bother me! The added weight in an again stiffer body with wider track and with new genration of suspension technology, I will not feel. Let's see how it turns out

Why do you think that the new M4 is going to have more space than the outgoing one? Bigger from the outside not always transfers into bigger inside. And do we know with what percentage the body of the new one is stiffer than the old one?

 

[domleo999]

The M4 doesnt look aggressive enough like the older models. It has no flared wheelarches and the shape of the tail lights looks crap, too thin. The M3 is the one to go for, it has a wonderful typical M3 squat, muscular appearance especially from the back it looks fantastic and shames the drab M4.

It looks fine. They are the same width, and have the same wheel arches. The M3 looks bulkier at the back because it uses the G20’s rear doors.

black is the way to go

 

[Matski]

Poll added!

I'd have added a third option.

"M3 with performance parts and 'off-its-tits' red'n'black paint job"

... then I'd have selected that one.

For some reason that car reminds of the ACS CLS II... which I quite like.

 

[J.E]

It looks fine. They are the same width, and have the same wheel arches. The M3 looks bulkier at the back because it uses the G20’s rear doors.

black is the way to go

Rest in Peace Hofmeister Kink. It was nice knowing you.

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Now the coupé version of the 3-series looks like anything but a BMW. What next? Next 3 and 4-series to be based on a Brilliance???

 

[bmwz4coupe]

Why? Depends on WHAT you want to compare!
You could as well say: "You should not compare a F8x with just 450hp with a G8x with 510hp"

The thing is simple:
People, who were concerned about weight/performance in the F8x era, did chose F8x Competition Pack (contains slightly lighter seats) with carbon roof, CCBs and maybe even the optional 19 inch cast wheels instead of the heavier 20 inch. And voila, you had a final (optimized) weight.
People, who are concerned about weight/performance in the G8x era, are going to chose Competition model with carbon roof and Track pack (contains CCB and lighter seats).

But the F82 M4 Competition is not lighter than the normal M4, it is actually 18 kg heavier if you look at BMWs claimed weight (1497 vs 1515 kg) with manual transmission, and the real weight found in independant magazine tests confirms that it is a little heavier.....

 

[dalab]

It looks fine. They are the same width, and have the same wheel arches. The M3 looks bulkier at the back because it uses the G20’s rear doors.

black is the way to go

@Rolf, of course he has them widened, the difference is very noticeable against the normal 4 series 4 cm more, and 2 cm more than the previous M4 only the widening parts, also behind, it is better noticed with outside light.
That black M4 broke me down, you can't ask for anything better

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

It looks fine. They are the same width, and have the same wheel arches. The M3 looks bulkier at the back because it uses the G20’s rear doors.

black is the way to go

That actually looks good.

 

[bmwz4coupe]

There was a change in the rules for weight measurements and it was more in connection with providing more realistic fuel consumption. Up to one year ago the manufacturers were providing stripped out versions, so that the car for certification is lighter and in that way consumes less fuel. I think they were obliged to provide cars with some real world specification which has led to a significant increase in the weight of the cars.

Where do you have this info from? I ask because when I see at BMW’s web page under the spec of the new M4 it says that “das leergewicht gilt fur Fahrzeuge in serienmäsiger Ausstattung” which I believe means it is weight with standard equipment, in other words without any options. This is the same as before...

 

[manuelf]

Why do you think that the new M4 is going to have more space than the outgoing one? Bigger from the outside not always transfers into bigger inside. And do we know with what percentage the body of the new one is stiffer than the old one?

Oh - don't be so nit-picky! It is bigger, ok? Relax: I didn't want to say something, which can be seen positive about the G8x!
To your second question: I don't think, they have published numbers. In the past, they sometimes have published numbers about "torsional rigidity" of the body in white. But there is the presentation of the G8x at the M studio, where project lead explicitly mentioned the massive stiffening. So - I'm open for a bet, that the G8x is stiffer than the F8x (as has been always the case from one M car gen to the next).

 

[manuelf]

But the F82 M4 Competition is not lighter than the normal M4, it is actually 18 kg heavier if you look at BMWs claimed weight (1497 vs 1515 kg) with manual transmission, and the real weight found in independant magazine tests confirms that it is a little heavier.....

Also in case the M4 Comp was tested/weighted with the no-cost optional 19" cast rims instead of the standard 20" rims? And also note, that Competition always comes with the heavier adaptive dampers, which are a cost option for NON-competition models. If you don't take all those factors into account, it is again apple to orange.

 

[bmwz4coupe]

Also in case the M4 Comp was tested/weighted with the no-cost optional 19" cast rims instead of the standard 20" rims? And also note, that Competition always comes with the heavier adaptive dampers, which are a cost option for NON-competition models. If you don't take all those factors into account, it is again apple to orange.

Yes, so then the M4 Comp IS heavier officially and also in real-life. This generation M4 actually never came in a real lightweight version, the GTS and CS was only about 30 kg lighter

 

[Matski]

which I believe means it is weight with standard equipment, in other words without any options. This is the same as before...

The EU regulations for reporting weight in type approval haven't changed as far as I know (97/27/EC). The last amendment was 2012 I think.

(4) ‘mass in running order’ means (a) in the case of a motor vehicle: the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least 90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the tools;

(5) ‘mass of the optional equipment’ means the mass of the equipment which may be fitted to the vehicle in addition to the standard equipment, in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications;

(6) ‘actual mass of the vehicle’ means the mass in running order plus the mass of the optional equipment fitted to an individual vehicle;

Oh - don't be so nit-picky! It is bigger, ok?

To be fair, according to the reported dimensions the M4 isn't usefully bigger inside in any respect.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

The EU regulations for reporting weight in type approval haven't changed as far as I know (97/27/EC). The last amendment was 2012 I think.

(4) ‘mass in running order’ means (a) in the case of a motor vehicle: the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least 90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the tools;

(5) ‘mass of the optional equipment’ means the mass of the equipment which may be fitted to the vehicle in addition to the standard equipment, in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications;

(6) ‘actual mass of the vehicle’ means the mass in running order plus the mass of the optional equipment fitted to an individual vehicle;



To be fair, according to the reported dimensions the M4 isn't usefully bigger inside in any respect.

It was not connected with the way the mass is measured. It was connected with reporting unreal fuel consumption and the risk of huge fines. Putting a weight close to the real world was a volunteered act and not implemented by new regulations. They were cheating in the past and under the risk of penalties they stopped cheating. The rules are the same, the difference is that they are more strictly followed.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Where do you have this info from? I ask because when I see at BMW’s web page under the spec of the new M4 it says that “das leergewicht gilt fur Fahrzeuge in serienmäsiger Ausstattung” which I believe means it is weight with standard equipment, in other words without any options. This is the same as before...

Take a car with a "serienmäsiger Ausstattung" from before 2019 and chech weather it will weight the same like the given by the manufacturer data.

 

[bmwz4coupe]

Take a car with a "serienmäsiger Ausstattung" from before 2019 and chech weather it will weight the same like the given by the manufacturer data.

Ok, so if I understand you correctly the rules are not changed, but the manufacteurs are now following the rules more strictly when the weigh their cars?

 

[SCOTT27]

I went M3. I need the practicality.
But my final choice would be the Touring.

 

[manuelf]

Ok, so if I understand you correctly the rules are not changed, but the manufacteurs are now following the rules more strictly when the weigh their cars?

Yep. This I did already understand from @CrunchSlaughtered first post about the topic and it makes perfectly sense! Just take the totally hilarious weight data, BMW provided for the F8x at presentation! It was so off. Everybody who saw first F82 on the scales instantly knew, that the claimed weight was a cheat! Even if you specced a F82 with the fewest possible addons and chose the costly CCB you were miles away from official figures.
Same for most other OEMs!

After the diesel scandal and all eyes on them, automotive industry seems to be more cautious now regarding published data.

 

[bmwz4coupe]

Yep. This I did already understand from @CrunchSlaughtered first post about the topic and it makes perfectly sense! Just take the totally hilarious weight data, BMW provided for the F8x at presentation! It was so off. Everybody who saw first F82 on the scales instantly knew, that the claimed weight was a cheat! Even if you specced a F82 with the fewest possible addons and chose the costly CCB you were miles away from official figures.
Same for most other OEMs!

After the diesel scandal and all eyes on them, automotive industry seems to be more cautious now regarding published data.

Ok, we’ll have to observe and see if the manufacteurs will be more accurate in weight claims. It seems Lamborghini don’t give a shit, their latest model the Huracan EVO is quoted with the same dryweight as the Huracan LP610-4, but a lot of magazine tests show that it is actually aprox 100 kg heavier (!)

 

[advantage20]

Publishing and boasting over dry weight numbers as if they represented the final street-ready vehicle should be treated legally for what it is, misleading advertising. I mean, if you are free to sell a car with no fuel, oil or brake fluids as a ready-to-go automobile, then by that same token why not take off the wheels and a few body panels as well to bring the weight numbers down some more, you'd get just as far in real life without these on your car as you would without fluids anyway. Hell, if you can do away with the indispensable fluids and still call it a finished car, then you can definitely do away with the passenger seat, rear bench, A/C unit, which are all disposable in comparison, and post even lower numbers

 

[manuelf]

@advantage20
To whom are you referring? If I look at data provided by OEM to customers either EU weights ( even weight of customer and luggage included) or DIN weights are given. All contain fluids.
Dry weight I only see mentioned on race cars ...