M3/M4 [Official] 2021 BMW M3 and M4 [G80 & G82]

[Levi68]

Don't believe anybody. Form your own opinion. Maybe your driving skills are closer to @hovabongZA than to Chris Harris ... so maybe your final verdict is also closer to hova's

there is evidence of david having driven many different cars extensively in real life situations. hova has driven what? david's opinion is more valuable for the "unskilled" drivers on this forum. if your are a track worrior as sunny, your opinions while interesting and worth full are not applicable for most.

 

[David Brent]

Don't believe anybody. Form your own opinion. Maybe your driving skills are closer to @hovabongZA than to Chris Harris ... so maybe your final verdict is also closer to hova's

I don't think you've quite picked up on the sarcasm in my post. Hova isn't in a position to have ANY verdict never mind a "final" one. The sheer ridiculousness of a random guy on the internet with zero real-world experience of cars, and who certainly hasn't driven the latest M3 and probably hasn't driven ANY M3, disagreeing with Chris Harris, who is literally a professional racing driver and car journalist is mad. Whether Chris Harris is right or wrong is neither here nor there, but at least he's actually driven it. This is about HovabongZA's misplaced confidence. It's laughable that he would even post an opinion.


If and when I drive the G80 (I'm waiting for the G81 Touring as that is the only version I'm interested in, and won't be launched until Nov 22), I will of course form my own opinion.

Seriously: Chris Harris isn't the reborn Jesus. I like his reviews a lot, but there are also other known journalists with different opinions.

The issue isn't comparing whether Chris Harris' opinion is more valid than other journalists. It's about comparing it with HovabongZA's, someone who isn't in a position to have ANY opinion.

there is evidence of david having driven many different cars extensively in real life situations. hova has driven what? david's opinion is more valuable for the "unskilled" drivers on this forum. if your are a track worrior as sunny, your opinions while interesting and worth full are not applicable for most.

I've owned an E46 M3, E92 M3, Z4 M, M2, F82 M4, M135i, and still own an G05 X5, F30, G20 330e, and an R8 V10. The one car I don't particularly miss is the F82 M4.

I'm not in any position to comment on the G80 M3 until I've driven it. Only then can I judge it.

 

[manuelf]

The issue isn't comparing whether Chris Harris' opinion is more valid than other journalists. It's about comparing it with HovabongZA's, someone who isn't in a position to have ANY opinion.

Ok. Fair enough. Can't argue against this.
I just hope, that this thread doesn't end up with BMW fanboys (like myself of course) citing positive fragments of articles vs. BMW critics citing the negative ones for the next 10 pages ...

 

[hovabongZA]

there is evidence of david having driven many different cars extensively in real life situations. hova has driven what? david's opinion is more valuable for the "unskilled" drivers on this forum. if your are a track worrior as sunny, your opinions while interesting and worth full are not applicable for most.

Do not be one of the A**holes in this forum that I’ll have to put on my ignore list. You don’t know anything about me to be assuming anything about me.

Don't believe anybody. Form your own opinion. Maybe your driving skills are closer to @hovabongZA than to Chris Harris ... so maybe your final verdict is also closer to hova's
Seriously: Chris Harris isn't the reborn Jesus. I like his reviews a lot, but there are also other known journalists with different opinions.
And "M440i+" isn't a scientific statement! If you follow his review, then you are aware, that he obviously notes all the extensive changes in steering and chassis ... but the switch from the more raw DCT to ZF8 leads him to this "M440i +" metapher ... so this is debatable and very dependant on personal taste! And obviously: If he would be driving a manual G8x variant, this verdict could be different?

Although I do appreciate the gesture. I’ve put Betty Brent on my ignore list which means I do not want to see anything from this particular member, so if you see a reply from her directed at me, please do not reply on my behalf in future. Thread will go off track if you do that.

Let me just mention this for the last time. We can have members on this forum who drive a Bugatti Chiron or a Golf 8 GTI and they can have reviews on these cars which we all can appreciate personal car ownership, however whatever they write about these cars is an OPINION and anecdotal at best.

I personally prefer reviews from people like Henry Catchpole and the likes over personal car ownership experiences mainly because they’ve driven way more cars than the next person and although their reviews remain an opinion, he/she probably has driven all its competitors back to back over an extended period of time more than the 15 minutes most of us get in a test drive and they have more experience than probably all of us combined and they tend to be less bias towards that car because they have no personal investment ie monthly lease or instalments. They do it for a living you don’t.

 

[David Brent]

I’ve put Betty Brent on my ignore list which means I do not want to see anything from this particular member, so if you see a reply from her directed at me, please do not reply on my behalf in future.

Stop telling people what they should and shouldn't reply to. This is a discussion forum where people are encouraged to discuss cars freely. Nobody is forcing you to post on here. You don't get to choose who replies to your posts. You posted that you disagreed with Chris Harris. I pointed out that without anything to back it up, your opinion means nothing. If you feel I've broken forum rules, report me to the mods.

Let me just mention this for the last time. We can have members on this forum who drive a Bugatti Chiron or a Golf 8 GTI and they can have reviews on these cars which we all can appreciate personal car ownership, however whatever they write about these cars is an OPINION and anecdotal at best.

This isn't about other members. This is about YOU, someone who has posted absloutely ZERO personal experience of cars in the last ten years, dismissing one of the most well-known car reviewers there is. You have nothing to back up your opinion, yet you dismiss someone who has actually driven the M3 for three days. That's not to say everybody has to agree with Chris Harris, but to disagree you have to have at least a basis for that, and at the very least that should be actually driving the car yourself. Picking and choosing someone else's opinion doesn't constitute YOU having one. It's an opinion "by proxy".

 

[Matski]

Can someone confirm where Chris Harris said it was an M440i + ? I watched the video, I heard him say of the powertrain "[it could be ] a very powerful M340 engine, and that's a big statement. It's not a car who's powertrain is going to blow you away." As far as I can tell, M440i + is something that Klier said, and as far as I know, Klier is yet to drive the new M3.

So, what are we squabbling about again?

 

[David Brent]

Can someone confirm where Chris Harris said it was an M440i + ? I watched the video, I heard him say of the powertrain "[it could be ] a very powerful M340 engine, and that's a big statement. It's not a car who's powertrain is going to blow you away." As far as I can tell, M440i + is something that Klier said, and as far as I know, Klier is yet to drive the new M3.

So, what are we squabbling about again?

As far as I can tell, someone who hasn't driven the M3 says it's an M440i "plus", and someone else who also hasn't driven it says it's not.

 

[manuelf]

As far as I can tell, someone who hasn't driven the M3 says it's an M440i "plus", and someone else who also hasn't driven it says it's not.

Ok, but you have to admit, that some of your last posts are "wrong" then. Because you stated, that Chris Harris has done this "M440i plus" comparo.
@Matski thanks for pointing this out. I then watched the vid a 2nd time. The most concerns with the G8x Chris has are mainly looks. This is ok. But I'm not interessted in Chris design taste, but in its thoughts about tech. And this is summarized perfectly at 2min 48 sec in the video, where he says that the tech below is just spectacular and later he even says (6:45) that it is a much more capable car than its predecessor.

 

[David Brent]

Ok, but you have to admit, that some of your last posts are "wrong" then. Because you stated, that Chris Harris has done this "M440i plus" comparo.

Chris Harris used the words "M440i plus". Whether he was referring to the drivetrain specifically or not, it matters not one jot. It doesn't change the fact that HovabongZA is emphatically saying "it's not" despite not having one iota of experience at all. He does this all the time, and half of the time I ignore it. The difference is with @klier, he DOES have his own experience which he's posted here, and he doesn't form his opinions purely from watching videos on YouTube. He's balanced. Sure, some opinions can be formed without having first hand knowledge. The problem with HovabongZA is that in the last ten years, he hasn't made a single post where he's reported his own experiences, and yet he is one of the most over-confident, over-opinionated members of this forum.

I care about this forum and the content people post. This is a discussion forum, so people like HovabongZA are free to post whatever they like. What they DON'T get is immunity to someone questioning their posts, or to decide who responds to them.

@Matski The most concerns with the G8x Chris has are mainly looks.

Throughout the video he voices concerns that the engine and transmission aren't special enough for an M car.

On the switch from the M DCT to the ZF auto: "I think it's lost something".

"Every time you want the car to respond instantly to an input, there's a little lag, and that lag for me makes a big difference".

On the drivetrain:

"It's not a car whose powertrain is going to blow you away".

"Yes, we have a very talented powertrain, but I don't think it has the specialness I want from an M car".

"You know what, it could be a very powerful M340 engine, and that's quite a big statement".



Sure, he also says some positive things about the car, but don't pretend the only issues CH has are the looks, because that's demonstrably untrue.

 

[manuelf]

So you watched a different video than me.
Saying the G8x is a M440i+ is dead wrong and was never done by CH! I hope, we can agree, that car is more than its engine! The only comparison which CH did is, that the engine feels like the M340i engine, but with more oomph. If this is bad as even the B58 is 6 cylinder benchmark in the industry, I dunno. And yes, that he prefers DCT over torque converter.
That he critizes certain aspects is crystal clear and expected! By applauding to the steering and chassis of the G8x and clearly expressing that the G8x is the more capable car than its predecessor, which by the way was the segment benchmark til its production end, in my book this is in summary a very positive verdict!

 

[David Brent]

So you watched a different video than me.
Saying the G8x is a M440i+ is dead wrong and was never done by CH! I hope, we can agree, that car is more than its engine! The only comparison which CH did is, that the engine feels like the M340i engine, but with more oomph. If this is bad as even the B58 is 6 cylinder benchmark in the industry, I dunno. And yes, that he prefers DCT over torque converter.
That he critizes certain aspects is crystal clear and expected! By applauding to the steering and chassis of the G8x and clearly expressing that the G8x is the more capable car than its predecessor, which by the way was the segment benchmark til its production end, in my book this is in summary a very positive verdict!

I'm not commenting on whether the verdict was positive or not. I'm refuting your assertion that the only issue CH has with the M3 is its looks. That's simply not true.

 

[manuelf]

I'm not commenting on whether the verdict was positive or not. I'm refuting your assertion that the only issue CH has with the M3 is its looks. That's simply not true.

I did not say "only". I said "most concerns"! And this was simply deduced from the time he argued about it in the video!

 

[David Brent]

I did not say "only". I said "most concerns"! And this was simply deduced from the time he argued about it in the video!

OK, fair enough. I would debate that the looks are his main concern, as he seems to talk a lot about the powertrain, but you didn't say it was his "only" concern.

 

[SCOTT27]

Does anyone actually base their purchase on what any YouTube automotive influencer reports?

 

[klier]

Does anyone actually base their purchase on what any YouTube automotive influencer reports?

I hope not, and I don't think so. But maybe in 15 years when there's no car journalists left altogether....because we'll end up with 1- retarded influencers who can't even count to ten. And 2- tech reporters about the on board infotainment systems, connectivity and self driving features. The car itself will be an entire afterthought. Nobody will care about how it drives, and all cars will drive more or less the same with the same electro engine. Yay.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Does anyone actually base their purchase on what any YouTube automotive influencer reports?

No, but they do add insight and color. They can help ferret out what's worthwhile and what's trash. At the end of the day, I have to see what works for me.

That said, I would not call Chris Harris an "influencer." Dude's an accomplished motor journalist who has paid his dues to get where he is today. He and Neil helped popularize internet video car reviews and is well versed in automotive miscellany. On top of all that, he's a much better driver than the vast majority of the youtubers out there. I would not at all lump him with the likes of Shmee, etc. Though he sometimes leans in to the grumpy archetype that Clarkson occupied a little too much.

 

[hovabongZA]

Hope the video was not potted before.

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[manuelf]

On top of all that, he's a much better driver than the vast majority of the youtubers out there. I would not at all lump him with the likes of Shmee, etc.

To defend Shmee a bit here (who ever thought I was going to do this once ) ...over the last 1-2 years Tim upped his driving skills a lot. I don't know, how many Nürburgring Nordschleife laps he has done now with instructions by Apex ... but definitly a lot! I saw some of his recent laps ... he definitly has some driving slills now!

 

[manuelf]

Hope the video was not potted before.

Interessting! The 911 was equipped with the PDK! Normally PDK + rear engine 911 means a much better start compared to a M3/4!
I also have already seen some 992 Carrera vs G8x competition drag races, where the much more powerful G8x wasn't able to catch up with the Carrera until the 1/4 mile mark! So in this example the M4 really had a perfect LC start ... which isn't the norm with the M launch control opposed to the Porsche/PDK launch control ...

 

[hovabongZA]

Interessting! The 911 was equipped with the PDK! Normally PDK + rear engine 911 means a much better start compared to a M3/4!
I also have already seen some 992 Carrera vs G8x competition drag races, where the much more powerful G8x wasn't able to catch up with the Carrera until the 1/4 mile mark! So in this example the M4 really had a perfect LC start ... which isn't the norm with the M launch control opposed to the Porsche/PDK launch control ...

The launch control on the Gx ZF8 speed seems to be much much better than the DCT Fx, unlike the CarMag drag race this is what I expected the M4 to do to the Carrera...the Carrera S should be the real competition. Either way the M3/4 being constantly compared to a bonafide sportscar like the 911 is a huge compliment.